Kiyan

[23Zone]

The other thing I'll add is in my opinion I don't think he should play the 3. He needs to improve his ball handling and speed and really focus on trying to become a large 2G.

 

[OrangeinNH]

Demetris Nichols was playing meaningful minutes for us in the NCAA tournament as a freshman. He was always solid defensively, and it was his offense and shot making that really improved with time. I'd be hopeful that Kiyan can become a higher end 6th man type, but agree that his ceiling doesn't appear much higher than that due to the athleticism piece.

 

[RF2044]

I'm hoping that perhaps Kiyan can have a Demetris Nichols type four year career. Nichols could barely see the floor his freshman year and was simply in over his head. Little flashes his soph year, but it was his junior year and especially senior year that he came into his own. I wouldn't consider him an elite athlete at all. But he was crafty and effective.

I don't really see that comparison.

Nichols was a bit above average athletically, and had a top flight skill [shooting], and wasn't a defensive liability -- even early on. Now, I fully agree that he wasn't consistent until his third year, and he was one-dimensional. But his issues seem different qualitatively to me than Kiyan's.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

who is Edey? Billy Edelin?

Zach Edey

 

[kingtidge]

One thing he really needs to fix...

On his basket drives and layups/short shots, he almost always releases the ball in the air, feet hit the ground, and he purposely falls to the deck looking to sell an and1 foul ... The problem is, 1. There is often no foul, and 2. If he misses these short shots (like yesterday's game), he concedes any rebound opportunity he could have for put-back by falling to the floor... and is on his arse out of play in the transition going the other way. It's soft and not good aggressive offensive play.

That has to stop.

The fact Red hasn't done anything about it is reason 1,765 on his list of coaching problems.

That sort of thing would get you yanked and sat under JB... and a stern doghouse talking-to once your arse hit the pine... Those teachable moments don't appear to be happening under Red, tho he is talking about softness and effort in the pressers now at least... day late and dollar short...

 

[Eric15]

I don't really see that comparison.

Nichols was a bit above average athletically, and had a top flight skill [shooting], and wasn't a defensive liability -- even early on. Now, I fully agree that he wasn't consistent until his third year, and he was one-dimensional. But his issues seem different qualitatively to me than Kiyan's.

I was more focused on the very slow development and progression between the two players than an apples to apples skill set comparison. I was just trying to articulate that I still think Kiyan can develop into a solid player of us -- it will just take some patience. But these days with the transfer portal, that's not in great supply.

 

[DCUNITED13]

Kiyan, is a freshman, has had a number of games he was in double figure scoring. High expectations for a freshman but we did not expect major contribution for our results.

• Very good in isolation and has great moves to get to the basket 1v1.
  • Issue is, when help arrives via double team he is unable to quickly identify an open man. Could be the offensive set or he may need to see that doubleteam coming earlier and dish quickly.
• He does not give the ball up on the break. Head down dribbling the ball. If he was a hockey player he would be blown up against the boards before reaching the offensive blue line.
• Not a legitimate 3 point shooter (only a freshman and expect to develop)
• He starts his isolation well beyond the 3 point line. Needs to be closer when starting attach
• Inconsistent FT Shooter ==>needs to punish defense for fouling when going to basket
• Defensively,
  • he is not able to prevent his man from ddriving by him.
  • Decent in initial denying the ball, but against a player that moves constantly to get open, he fails after a few seconds to contain him man.
  • Does not react well to lose balls for rebounds.
  • Does not box out on switches underneath the basket.
  • The last two could be coaching ==>focus on bursts to the ball, he has that on offence, needs to develop that on defense

Lots of things to work on. He is a freshman and not a savior. I hope he comes back and improves on every aspect of his game

Go CUSE

 

[shandeezy7]

I said this in another thread - I did not expect a ton from Kiyan this season, but I did expect him to at least provide us with a three-point threat off the bench, and aside from a few games, he was absolutely dreadful from beyond the arc.

His shooting form is a mess, and oddly enough, it's from the waist down. I've never seen someone consistently twist their lower body while rising vertically on a jump shot. Not only that, almost every three pointer that he took where he was set and lined up, he faded away or to the left/right.

So not only does he need to work on his speed and agility, I think there are serious issues with his shooting form that need to be addressed before he's too far gone.

 

[Millhouse]

I said this in another thread - I did not expect a ton from Kiyan this season, but I did expect him to at least provide us with a three-point threat off the bench, and aside from a few games, he was absolutely dreadful from beyond the arc.

His shooting form is a mess, and oddly enough, it's from the waist down. I've never seen someone consistently twist their lower body while rising vertically on a jump shot. Not only that, almost every three pointer that he took where he was set and lined up, he faded away or to the left/right.

So not only does he need to work on his speed and agility, I think there are serious issues with his shooting form that need to be addressed before he's too far gone.

how do these bonehead dads let their kids shoot with such obviously bad form

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I said this in another thread - I did not expect a ton from Kiyan this season, but I did expect him to at least provide us with a three-point threat off the bench, and aside from a few games, he was absolutely dreadful from beyond the arc.

His shooting form is a mess, and oddly enough, it's from the waist down. I've never seen someone consistently twist their lower body while rising vertically on a jump shot. Not only that, almost every three pointer that he took where he was set and lined up, he faded away or to the left/right.

So not only does he need to work on his speed and agility, I think there are serious issues with his shooting form that need to be addressed before he's too far gone.

Never trust a true freshman for a good three point percentage. If it happens it's an accident or small sample size.

 

[shandeezy7]

Never trust a true freshman for a good three point percentage. If it happens it's an accident or small sample size.

There is a WIDE gap between “good” and 25%.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

There is a WIDE gap between “good” and 25%.

It's not out of the question for a freshman to be in the 20s, even guys we ended up considering great shooters. Anything over 30% for a freshman, especially on any real volume, is pretty good.

Decided to check a few guys, started with recent guys then ended up just checking out all-time list. It's interesting, I don't know what this really tells us. I think we see some difference in era. Teams used to be a lot more selective about bombing it up and that probably helps some of these percentages.

Chris Bell - 35%

JG3 - 32%

Judah Mintz - 30%

The Spectacular Swider-Man - 28%

Jackson "Buddy" Boeheim - 33%

GMAC - 36%

Andy Rautins - 33%

Trevor Cooney - 27%

Preston Shumpert - 29%

Eric Devendorf - 38%

Demetris Nichols - 24%

Lawrence Moten - 32%

Marius Janulis - 33%

Tyus Battle - 37% would not have guessed this

Todd Burgan - 39%, probably should have let him shoot more

Deshaun Williams - an enigmatic 42%

Brandon Triche - 40%

Elijah Hughes - 27%

Matt Roe - 20% but on 10 attempts

Gbinije - 40% also on 10 attempts

Dirty South - 29%

Adrian Autry - 32%

Jason Hart - 33% but he was like 38% on 2s, weird

Frank Howard - 11%, let if fly Frankie

Scoop Jardine - 28%

Dave Johnson - 15%

Kris Joseph - 27%

Kiyan will learn to help himself. He's taken a lot of dumb threes. I'm guessing if he had more discipline and kept it to in rhythm threes he probably is high 20%s at worst, probably low 30%s, which is pretty normal even for our shooters.

 

[shandeezy7]

It's not out of the question for a freshman to be in the 20s, even guys we ended up considering great shooters. Anything over 30% for a freshman, especially on any real volume, is pretty good.

Decided to check a few guys, started with recent guys then ended up just checking out all-time list. It's interesting, I don't know what this really tells us. I think we see some difference in era. Teams used to be a lot more selective about bombing it up and that probably helps some of these percentages.

Chris Bell - 35%

JG3 - 32%

Judah Mintz - 30%

The Spectacular Swider-Man - 28%

Jackson "Buddy" Boeheim - 33%

GMAC - 36%

Andy Rautins - 33%

Trevor Cooney - 27%

Preston Shumpert - 29%

Eric Devendorf - 38%

Demetris Nichols - 24%

Lawrence Moten - 32%

Marius Janulis - 33%

Tyus Battle - 37% would not have guessed this

Todd Burgan - 39%, probably should have let him shoot more

Deshaun Williams - an enigmatic 42%

Brandon Triche - 40%

Elijah Hughes - 27%

Matt Roe - 20% but on 10 attempts

Gbinije - 40% also on 10 attempts

Dirty South - 29%

Adrian Autry - 32%

Jason Hart - 33% but he was like 38% on 2s, weird

Frank Howard - 11%, let if fly Frankie

Scoop Jardine - 28%

Dave Johnson - 15%

Kris Joseph - 27%

Kiyan will learn to help himself. He's taken a lot of dumb threes. I'm guessing if he had more discipline and kept it to in rhythm threes he probably is high 20%s at worst, probably low 30%s, which is pretty normal even for our shooters.

I'd feel better if his mechanics weren't completely toast. We've seen in the past how difficult that is to fix.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'd feel better if his mechanics weren't completely toast. We've seen in the past how difficult that is to fix.

It's mostly his feet and his balance (drifting on the shot). His shooting motion itself is fine.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'd feel better if his mechanics weren't completely toast. We've seen in the past how difficult that is to fix.

That's what I mean about the bad shots though. The form is good when he's actually set, gets the pass, and launches.

That's not the form he uses when he shoots under duress, from too deep, or does weird twisty action before the shot.

He'll get there.

 

[Newhouser]

Is he gone if Hop doesn't get gig?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Is he gone if Hop doesn't get gig?

It would be incumbent on the new coach to evaluate the roster and sell guys on his vision for them.

 

[shandeezy7]

That's what I mean about the bad shots though. The form is good when he's actually set, gets the pass, and launches.

That's not the form he uses when he shoots under duress, from too deep, or does weird twisty action before the shot.

He'll get there.

Unfortunately, especially late in the season, even when he would receive a pass in rhythm and perfectly set to shoot, his lower body would still be an absolute disaster once he rose to shoot. Almost like how an 8-year-old might look trying to muster up all the strength possible to shoot a 3 pointer. Gonna take a lot of work to correct that, IMO.

 

[RMH44]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, my source told me that, as of now, Kiyan is returning next year.