Kudos to Gross

[Chip]

We were not in the ACC 10 years earlier only due to local politics. We were the obvious "next man up" when the realignment carousel started spinning again.

Any halfway competent AD could have presided over SU's move to the ACC in 2013.

I can't speak intelligently to what role Gross played in our ACC membership.

But you are right that the first time around, the VA Governor put a gun to the head of UVA, which meant we were forced to become the 13th choice for a 12 team league.

They didn't forget about us. But credit our brand staying desirable (even with football turning to dogsh!t) while we waited, what, 7 years?

 

[longtimefan]

I can't speak intelligently to what role Gross played in our ACC membership.

But you are right that the first time around, the VA Governor put a gun to the head of UVA, which meant we were forced to become the 13th choice for a 12 team league.

They didn't forget about us. But credit our brand staying desirable (even with football turning to dogsh!t) while we waited, what, 7 years?

The brand (I'm getting to hate that term) was desirable mainly due to basketball. Remember, the ACC is still a basketball league at heart.
And, the pre-eminence of the lax team helped with UVa, UNC and Duke, who all voted the wrong way in 2003.

 

[rrlbees]

He offered Edsall & Skip Holtz the job and they (thankfully) declined. A group of trustees stepped in after TGD whiffed on his first two picks to push Marrone. He wears the Robinson hiring because he relied on Petey Carroll's advice rather than interview other interested options (like a then AC for the Eagles who went on to win a Super Bowl).

Gross did interview others for the job.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Gross did interview others for the job.

I know he did. His template of wanting NFL DCs (Jerry Gray, Tim Lewis, Greg Robinson) was an awful idea for a "coach em up" program like SU. Works at factories, not SU.

 

[Cusefan78]

Go on.

I won't post them on the forum. Ask me at a tailgate and I'll tell you. The rumors of his spending aren't exaggerated!

 

[sutomcat]

Pretty easy to win national championships in X-C and field hockey? And get to the F4 in soccer? That's crazy.

I don't know the inner workings but can you explain to me how the Marrone hiring was imposed upon the AD? He had no say in the matter? But yet he wears the Robinson hiring?

I would agree that Gross bears some major responsibility for overseeing the basketball program. So does somebody else that you seemed to omit.

I said win, not win national championships or get to Final Fours. Props to the players and the coaches of these teams. They did a great job. Bradley was a really good hire that took a good field hockey program and made it great. Fox was a great hire that took our cross country programs and made them great. Track and field hasn't do that well but Gross destroyed their indoor and outdoor facilities, so he is to blame for that, not Coach Fox.

Softball was left a major mess. Women's tennis remains a mess and is another example where we spent a ton of money and got little in return. Ice hockey is another example where we spent a lot and haven't seen results to date. Volleyball was bad to awful during Dr Gross' time here but they had a very good season this year out of the blue. I think playing in the ACC had a lot to do with it but it maybe that program has turned the corner and will become a sustained winner. Men's soccer was awful most of his time here but Coach Mac has done a wonderful job and was a great hire. Women's soccer has been really bad and remains that way.

I am saying it is easier to establish winning programs in sports schools traditionally do not spend a lot of money on.

SU has become a power in women's lacrosse, which is great, but SU should be a power in women's lacrosse. We are located in the middle of a fertile recruiting area and we spend far more money on the sport that anyone else does. It is a shame that for all the resources that have been invested in women's lacrosse, we have no national championships to show for it.

The disastrous events that occurred every time Dr Gross tried to hire a football coach have been discussed in this thread in detail already.

Bottom line is, ADs are paid to take care of the revenue producing sports. It is too painful for me to run the numbers, but I suspect that during the time Dr Gross was running things for SU, he presided over the worst stretch of football in the history of the school. He also personally damaged the basketball program greatly and if you consider men's lacrosse a revenue sport, that sport also got worse while he was in charge.

Good guy. He did some good things for SU athletics for sure. I will be forever grateful he was willing to listen and cooperate with Dan to get the Ernie Davis statue done (even though he botched implementation of it in a number of ways).

But while he was here, he really hurt our football and basketball programs. I hope Mark Coyle is able to repair the damage relatively quickly.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't care what AD we have or had, the single biggest reason Syracuse is in the ACC is due to Jim Boeheim and the brand he built here at Syracuse. If we hadn't been successful as a Basketball program the last 20 years, there is no way we end up in the conference. Indirectly he has built the brand of Syracuse sports over the last twenty years.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I don't care what AD we have or had, the single biggest reason Syracuse is in the ACC is due to Jim Boeheim and the brand he built here at Syracuse. If we hadn't been successful as a Basketball program the last 20 years, there is no way we end up in the conference. Indirectly he has built the brand of Syracuse sports over the last twenty years.

How did Pitt get in?

 

[Cusefan0307]

How did Pitt get in?

Pitt has a good combination of a semi-recent Great football history combined with very recent success in their basketball program, albeit not in the tournament. Obviously the AD's power broked this, but nobody is getting in unless they have a brand.

 

[Cusefan78]

Pitt has a good combination of a semi-recent Great football history combined with very recent success in their basketball program, albeit not in the tournament. Obviously the AD's power broked this, but nobody is getting in unless they have a brand.

Being a northern basketball fan you're giving the basketball team way too much credit.

 

[721Comstock]

How did Pitt get in?

How did Rutgers get into the B1G? They aren't good at anything.

 

[rocklloyd]

How did Rutgers get into the B1G? They aren't good at anything.

Let's see if this works here.

@the New York City market@

 

[721Comstock]

Let's see of this works here.

@the New York City market@

Sigh. If only.

 

[Cuseman78]

I don't care what AD we have or had, the single biggest reason Syracuse is in the ACC is due to Jim Boeheim and the brand he built here at Syracuse. If we hadn't been successful as a Basketball program the last 20 years, there is no way we end up in the conference. Indirectly he has built the brand of Syracuse sports over the last twenty years.

Then why is Uconn not in the ACC?

 

[Chip]

How did Pitt get in?

Notre Dame's bff?

 

[Scooch]

How did Pitt get in?

Western PA football recruiting.

They were the preferred choice of the football-centric ACC schools who didn't want yet another school that only brought hoops to the table.

Pitt was not the best choice for other reasons.

 

[longtimefan]

Being a northern basketball fan you're giving the basketball team way too much credit.

The ACC is still a basketball conference.

Then why is Uconn not in the ACC?

Several reasons--BC was totally against them. The rest of the (old) league was very unhappy about the litigation of 2003, spearheaded by the State of Connecticut. The ACC preferred the all-around strength (especially football) of Louisville's athletics program.

 

[tipphill]

He was a massive failure at trying to turn the football program around, which was easily his most important task. Every person he wanted to hire was a bad choice and the only good move he made, hiring Doug Marrone, was imposed on him.

He did a horrible job overseeing the basketball program, which opened the door to NCAA violations, and his meetings to try and get around NCAA rules so Fab Melo could play were the biggest reason we ended up on probation.

He was awful at fund raising.

Most Olympic sports improved to some degree but it is pretty easy to win in those sports when you spend a ton of money other schools don't. Those programs were also helped by playing in the ACC, which is much better in these sports than the Big East was.

I think he will go down in history as one of the worst ADs in Syracuse history.

facili

He was a massive failure at trying to turn the football program around, which was easily his most important task. Every person he wanted to hire was a bad choice and the only good move he made, hiring Doug Marrone, was imposed on him.

He did a horrible job overseeing the basketball program, which opened the door to NCAA violations, and his meetings to try and get around NCAA rules so Fab Melo could play were the biggest reason we ended up on probation.

He was awful at fund raising.

Most Olympic sports improved to some degree but it is pretty easy to win in those sports when you spend a ton of money other schools don't. Those programs were also helped by playing in the ACC, which is much better in these sports than the Big East was.

I think he will go down in history as one of the worst ADs in Syracuse history.

jake and the chancellors were responsible for the demise ---they did

He was a massive failure at trying to turn the football program around, which was easily his most important task. Every person he wanted to hire was a bad choice and the only good move he made, hiring Doug Marrone, was imposed on him.

He did a horrible job overseeing the basketball program, which opened the door to NCAA violations, and his meetings to try and get around NCAA rules so Fab Melo could play were the biggest reason we ended up on probation.

He was awful at fund raising.

Most Olympic sports improved to some degree but it is pretty easy to win in those sports when you spend a ton of money other schools don't. Those programs were also helped by playing in the ACC, which is much better in these sports than the Big East was.

I think he will go down in history as one of the worst ADs in Syracuse history.

jake and the chancellors were responsible for the demise of the program by not reinvesting in it when we were at our best. they sat on their laurels while other schools moved forward in the arms race. su has a hx of being reactive rather than proactive. people blame pp for the issues. he was a good coach not great but good. it got to the point where everyone including rutgers spent money and we did not. we were forced to build a dome because our archaic facilities, which by the way finished ben off. we always wait until there is a crisis situation such as decade or more of failure. a massive dome renovation may help, and the new administration seems to be proactive (not just with sports). however,ideally a new state of the art stadium/conference-banquet center/visitor center coordinated with tourist attraction packages such as niagara falls, thousand islands, finger lakes wine tours, casino etc would be the way to go.---we need partners in business and state govt.(cuomo and local politicians to get it done. i have grown weary of the rust belt mentality and in the box thinking that goes on in the city. sorry about my rant

 

[HOFCeluck]

let's not paint PP as a victim...by the early 2000s it's pretty clear the game was passing him by.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I said win, not win national championships or get to Final Fours. Props to the players and the coaches of these teams. They did a great job. Bradley was a really good hire that took a good field hockey program and made it great. Fox was a great hire that took our cross country programs and made them great. Track and field hasn't do that well but Gross destroyed their indoor and outdoor facilities, so he is to blame for that, not Coach Fox.

Softball was left a major mess. Women's tennis remains a mess and is another example where we spent a ton of money and got little in return. Ice hockey is another example where we spent a lot and haven't seen results to date. Volleyball was bad to awful during Dr Gross' time here but they had a very good season this year out of the blue. I think playing in the ACC had a lot to do with it but it maybe that program has turned the corner and will become a sustained winner. Men's soccer was awful most of his time here but Coach Mac has done a wonderful job and was a great hire. Women's soccer has been really bad and remains that way.

I am saying it is easier to establish winning programs in sports schools traditionally do not spend a lot of money on.

SU has become a power in women's lacrosse, which is great, but SU should be a power in women's lacrosse. We are located in the middle of a fertile recruiting area and we spend far more money on the sport that anyone else does. It is a shame that for all the resources that have been invested in women's lacrosse, we have no national championships to show for it.

The disastrous events that occurred every time Dr Gross tried to hire a football coach have been discussed in this thread in detail already.

Bottom line is, ADs are paid to take care of the revenue producing sports. It is too painful for me to run the numbers, but I suspect that during the time Dr Gross was running things for SU, he presided over the worst stretch of football in the history of the school. He also personally damaged the basketball program greatly and if you consider men's lacrosse a revenue sport, that sport also got worse while he was in charge.

Good guy. He did some good things for SU athletics for sure. I will be forever grateful he was willing to listen and cooperate with Dan to get the Ernie Davis statue done (even though he botched implementation of it in a number of ways).

But while he was here, he really hurt our football and basketball programs. I hope Mark Coyle is able to repair the damage relatively quickly.

So only Gross is to blame for basketball?

 

[tipphill]

Let's see if this works here.

@the New York City market@

big land grant university with major research, med and law schools in the metro area. and significant privates research facilities around them including drug companies--

 

[Scooch]

The ACC is still a basketball conference. Several reasons--BC was totally against them. The rest of the (old) league was very unhappy about the litigation of 2003, spearheaded by the State of Connecticut. The ACC preferred the all-around strength (especially football) of Louisville's athletics program.

BC's opinion and the decade old lawsuit really didn't matter much.

Pitt = football history, Western PA recruiting

Louisville = good football, southern school