Latest Crystal Ball Predictions

Cusefan0307

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It's about the style of play and results. If hoops had a bowl system, we'd have been lucky to be selected for one of the bottom bowls in any of the last 5 years based on the entire body of work. For years Millhouse was clamoring to get away from meathead ball. Wouldn't you say the brand of hoops we've been playing for the last 5+ years is closer to meathead than any other style? Do you like being at the mercy of the selection committe every single year? I forgot what it's like to be able to relax on Selection Sunday. Thank god for the recent Final Fours but it really makes people overlook some really serious flaws with how things are trending.
You'd be wrong. Our winning percentage in basketball since the sanctions the last 5 years in the equivalent of going 8-4 in football. Scott Shafer went 14-23 as head football caoch.

The fact that you're assuming we are on the bubble this year is maddening. We beat Ohio State on the road by 10 who is 8-1 and has beat some really good teams while we are 8 games in.

I'm not in favor of our offense either, but you have an anti-Boeheim agenda at all costs and make things sound worse than they are.

And another thing. We won 30 freaking games in 2013 for the first final four and were a 4 seed. That's not a bubble team. Everyone would take that season every year if we were guaranteed it.

The next team won 28 games and was not a bubble team. We lost early in the tourney, but it was not a bubble team.

So when I come at you because I say you don't use facts, it is because you don't use facts. You exaggerate to make things worse than they are to promote your agenda.
 
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reedny

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Villanova last year averaged almost 6 more possessions than Syracuse. 72.3 (tied with Gonzaga) to 66.9 for Syracuse. There were only 13 teams in D1 who had fewer possessions...Virginia, Holy Cross, SMU, Elon, Northern Iowa, Presbyterian, Santa Clara, Texas State, Saint Louis, Central Florida, Radford, Vermont. You can go year by year and look at it in the link below. GREAT site.

Cutting?! When’s the last time we got a backdoor layup? I think once all year? If that?

NCAA Basketball Stats - NCAA BB Team Possessions per Game on TeamRankings.com
Yah, cool site. (Sportsreference is good too). Anyway, those 6 P'sPG made the difference of almost 200 spots on the D-1 list. There's no doubt from these stats that, comparatively, we're a half-court team. Some may not like it ... totally understandable. Run-n-gun with lots of scoring is fun to watch (See UNC, or NC-State). But I much prefer to win rather than lose and run up more points because it's fun to watch.
 

SoBeCuse

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Yah, cool site. (Sportsreference is good too). Anyway, those 6 P'sPG made the difference of almost 200 spots on the D-1 list. There's no doubt from these stats that, comparatively, we're a half-court team. Some may not like it ... totally understandable. Run-n-gun with lots of scoring is fun to watch (See UNC, or NC-State). But I much prefer to win rather than lose and run up more points because it's fun to watch.
Yep. I’m hoping JB will push the pace more when Frank and Sidibe are healthy. Still a big IF. Praying that this is the reason though Carey really hasn’t been unleashed. Especially since it was all we heard about from the players and coaches in the offseason. We’ll need some easier baskets when the good M2M teams with better athletes or at least our equals come knocking.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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I don't like the zone because it gives the opponent the opportunity to dictate the pace.

If they're content to hold it for 30 seconds per possession, that's boring. If they're able to
hit the offensive glass hard, that gives them more opportunities to burn clock.

If they are having a decent shooting day, and SU is having a lousy shooting day, it increases
the chances that a less talented team can (or does) defeat the Orange.

And there are plenty of games to see where this occurs.

I get why it works; I'd also prefer a little man D here and there to impose SU's will and to
exploit talent gaps against weaker teams. A team that isn't shooting well can use a more
aggressive defense to generate possessions as well as demoralize opponents. One does
not need 40 mins of zone to beat Cornell 63-55, just as one does not need 40 mins of
zone to win (46-45) or lose (55-51) against GTech. They are above that.

Kev
I think you should send this to JB. It might change his mind.
 

HOFCeluck

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It's about the style of play and results. If hoops had a bowl system, we'd have been lucky to be selected for one of the bottom bowls in any of the last 5 years based on the entire body of work. For years Millhouse was clamoring to get away from meathead ball. Wouldn't you say the brand of hoops we've been playing for the last 5+ years is closer to meathead than any other style? Do you like being at the mercy of the selection committe every single year? I forgot what it's like to be able to relax on Selection Sunday. Thank god for the recent Final Fours but it really makes people overlook some really serious flaws with how things are trending.
Your bowl comparison is bad and you should feel bad.
 

FrancoPizza

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Our winning percentage in basketball since the sanctions the last 5 years in the equivalent of going 8-4 in football. Scott Shafer went 14-23 as head football caoch.
Where did I say they were the literal equivalent? This is block-headed logic just trying to stir the pot. I'm comparing styles and results in the context of making the post-season. We're barely sneaking into the field of 68. About 68 teams also go bowling. Shafer even made a bowl one year. It's not a crazy comparison. I don't get the over-sensitivity.

The fact that you're assuming we are on the bubble this year is maddening. We beat Ohio State on the road by 10 who is 8-1 and has beat some really good teams while we are 8 games in.
I'm not assuming we're on the bubble yet, BUT if someone guaranteed us a 12 seed right now I would take it instead of letting the season play out. For all we know OSU will crap the bed or it might be the one win that the committee uses to justify our inclusion.

I'm not in favor of our offense either, but you have an anti-Boeheim agenda at all costs and make things sound worse than they are.
My "agenda" is wanting the program to win, to be fun to cheer for, and be a post-season contender. I have concerns that our HC will stay around too long, as history often repeats itself in these situations with HOFers. I'd wager thousands of fans also feel the same way. What's your "agenda"? Defending the program's direction until it hits the iceberg? Denigrating posters because you don't like their beliefs?

We won 30 freaking games in 2013 for the first final four and were a 4 seed. That's not a bubble team. Everyone would take that season every year if we were guaranteed it.
Last I checked 5 seasons goes back to 2014-15, but throw in an extra year to suit your argument. They went to the FF and they had some great wins, but that offense was brutal at times. It was the beginning of what we have seen for 5+ years now.

The next team won 28 games and was not a bubble team. We lost early in the tourney, but it was not a bubble team.
They weren't a bubble team officially, but they were playing like one down the stretch. Optics over statistics.

So when I come at you because I say you don't use facts, it is because you don't use facts. You exaggerate to make things worse than they are to promote your agenda.
I'm not talking facts. I'm talking optics and feelings. Those things matter more to me than statistics. Go ahead and claim that I'm butchering facts to puff up your chest.
 

Cusefan0307

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Where did I say they were the literal equivalent? This is block-headed logic just trying to stir the pot. I'm comparing styles and results in the context of making the post-season. We're barely sneaking into the field of 68. About 68 teams also go bowling. Shafer even made a bowl one year. It's not a crazy comparison. I don't get the over-sensitivity.

I'm not assuming we're on the bubble yet, BUT if someone guaranteed us a 12 seed right now I would take it instead of letting the season play out. For all we know OSU will crap the bed or it might be the one win that the committee uses to justify our inclusion.

My "agenda" is wanting the program to win, to be fun to cheer for, and be a post-season contender. I have concerns that our HC will stay around too long, as history often repeats itself in these situations with HOFers. I'd wager thousands of fans also feel the same way. What's your "agenda"? Defending the program's direction until it hits the iceberg? Denigrating posters because you don't like their beliefs?

Last I checked 5 seasons goes back to 2014-15, but throw in an extra year to suit your argument. They went to the FF and they had some great wins, but that offense was brutal at times. It was the beginning of what we have seen for 5+ years now.

They weren't a bubble team officially, but they were playing like one down the stretch. Optics over statistics.

I'm not talking facts. I'm talking optics and feelings. Those things matter more to me than statistics. Go ahead and claim that I'm butchering facts to puff up your chest.
So you're using #fakenews to prove your point.

There's also a lot less percentage of teams that get in the NCAA tournament than that go to bowl games.
 
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KevMonstah

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I think you should send this to JB. It might change his mind.
I'd tend to doubt that, but, hey, I got hooked on SU hoops when they played man and
regularly were one of the top offenses in college basketball. They'd chant "we want
fries" when the score was 95-something; now, they give tacos if SU scores 70. And you
are a masochist if you consider a 46-45 game, or 55-51 game, with both teams shooting
30% anything other than garbage. In fact, that one I think JB would agree with, as he
beat UK or Memphis in a game like that and he said something like "that's the worst
basketball game i've ever seen" afterwards (to the other coach!).

keep the zone, but give me some better offense, and stop letting weaker teams dictate
the game.

kev
 

JrodCuse

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Isn't this period of offensive suckitude during the years we were restricted in scholarships and had a few players leave early that compounded the issues?

We're still not even out of the sanctions completely. If we still have a problem in the next upcoming season or two then ok yea we got a legitimate issue.
 

SUFan44

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So what's the crystal ball prediction on JB's offense?
 

SU Dreaming

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I like Carey a LOT and like his measurables. I like you really am into most of his Zone D. He’s got a knack for it already. To say he is the fastest player on the court is simply not true. A couple of the Morehead guards were much quicker. Alterique Gilbert? Morgan on Cornell and one of the Colgate guys, too. We’re comparing him to Frank Howard who moves like he is in molasses. We’re comparing him also to this SU team who have length but aren’t that collectively quick and fast. I think you can argue that Tyus this year could be quicker than Carey. These last few games Tyus’s first steps and drives to the basket are really fast. I’m not suggesting at all that Carey is slow and I realize he is still learning the game. But, saying Carey is the fastest guy on the court would be inaccurate, IMO.
Fastest player on the court was a high level comment, per se, he is lighting quic and I was referring to our guys on our team, do not really focus on the other teams from a detail perspective. Tyus is not even close to Carey re speed, not even a contest, i have witnessed it numerous times this season @ Melo.
 

Footey04

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I agree Carey is fast and going to be great player here at Syracuse!!!
 

SoBeCuse

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Fastest player on the court was a high level comment, per se, he is lighting quic and I was referring to our guys on our team, do not really focus on the other teams from a detail perspective. Tyus is not even close to Carey re speed, not even a contest, i have witnessed it numerous times this season @ Melo.
Fair enough. Nice! I’ll take your word for it.
 

Footey04

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Fastest player on the court was a high level comment, per se, he is lighting quic and I was referring to our guys on our team, do not really focus on the other teams from a detail perspective. Tyus is not even close to Carey re speed, not even a contest, i have witnessed it numerous times this season @ Melo.
So who we getting as our center dreaming? I’m going with wahab!!! Fingers crossed!!!
 

Capt. Tuttle

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I'd tend to doubt that, but, hey, I got hooked on SU hoops when they played man and
regularly were one of the top offenses in college basketball. They'd chant "we want
fries" when the score was 95-something; now, they give tacos if SU scores 70. And you
are a masochist if you consider a 46-45 game, or 55-51 game, with both teams shooting
30% anything other than garbage. In fact, that one I think JB would agree with, as he
beat UK or Memphis in a game like that and he said something like "that's the worst
basketball game i've ever seen" afterwards (to the other coach!).

keep the zone, but give me some better offense, and stop letting weaker teams dictate
the game.

kev
Yeah. My post was facetious.
 

walsh2012

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Wouldn't you say the brand of hoops we've been playing for the last 5+ years is closer to meathead than any other style?
the zone defense is the polar opposite of meathead ball. hyper physical teams would never - ever - run zone.

Do you like being at the mercy of the selection committe every single year?
we were at the mercy of the ncaa due to scholly restrictions more than anything

but it really makes people overlook some really serious flaws with how things are trending.
we're returning a full starting line that won 3 tourney games in a weekend last season. Frank is still recovering. it's a long season. things will be fine, chill.
 

HoustonCuse

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I don't like the zone because it gives the opponent the opportunity to dictate the pace.

If they're content to hold it for 30 seconds per possession, that's boring. If they're able to
hit the offensive glass hard, that gives them more opportunities to burn clock.

If they are having a decent shooting day, and SU is having a lousy shooting day, it increases
the chances that a less talented team can (or does) defeat the Orange.
There is a lot to question about these statements.

1. If the zone allows the opponent to dictate the pace, it is only in the sense that they can't get good shots against it quickly. Isn't that the goal of a defense, to not give up easy shots?

2. Would you like an "exciting game" that we lose or a "boring game" that we win. Remember when we held Marquette to 39 points in an Elite 8 game and went to the Final Four? I found that pretty exciting.

3. If the opponent is having a decent shooting day and your team is having a lousy shooting day, it increases the chance that your team will lose in all situations. Whether you play the best m-to-m defense in history or you play zero defense at all.

Somebody said we are playing "meathead" basketball because our games have fewer possesions. I disagree. The slavish oppostion to zone because it is different is the definition of meathead. Here's a stat: in every single game, hundreds per week, 50% of the teams lose. Over 90% of those losing teams are playing buzzer to buzzer man defense. The zone is an elite level defense. It has won games at a high rate at all levels of the sport. Why is this still questioned??
 

General20

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There is a lot to question about these statements.

1. If the zone allows the opponent to dictate the pace, it is only in the sense that they can't get good shots against it quickly. Isn't that the goal of a defense, to not give up easy shots?

2. Would you like an "exciting game" that we lose or a "boring game" that we win. Remember when we held Marquette to 39 points in an Elite 8 game and went to the Final Four? I found that pretty exciting.

3. If the opponent is having a decent shooting day and your team is having a lousy shooting day, it increases the chance that your team will lose in all situations. Whether you play the best m-to-m defense in history or you play zero defense at all.

Somebody said we are playing "meathead" basketball because our games have fewer possesions. I disagree. The slavish oppostion to zone because it is different is the definition of meathead. Here's a stat: in every single game, hundreds per week, 50% of the teams lose. Over 90% of those losing teams are playing buzzer to buzzer man defense. The zone is an elite level defense. It has won games at a high rate at all levels of the sport. Why is this still questioned??
This is really well said.

Sometimes when things get said over and over again, people come to believe it as fact without ever stopping to think about what it actually means.

"Playing zone allows the other team to dictate the pace of the game" is one of these things. Its nonsensical.

There is no way to force the opposing team to shoot the ball when you want them to shoot (if they do it right they'll be shooting exactly when you DONT want them to shoot) so whoever has the ball gets to dictate the play of the game for the 30 seconds they are allowed to have the ball.

Man D doesn't force teams to shoot any quicker than zone D does. Although teams almost always shoot quicker against bad defenses than they do against good defenses. Why? Its common sense. Teams aren't going to shoot early in the shot clock unless they are getting a good shot, why take a bad shot when you still have time to create a good shot? If you are a bad defense, you'll give up a lot of good looks at the basket, which teams will gladly take. If you are a good defense they have to work hard and hope they get a good shot somewhere along the way.

The only way to stop a team from dictating the pace of play is to take the ball from them, this is called forcing a turnover. And despite playing zone (actually because they play zone) Syracuse is always up towards the top in turnovers forced. Last year a guy named Frank Howard lead the ACC in steals ... I think Battle was 4th.

So whether you play man D or zone D, teams are going to hold the ball until they find a good shot, unless there's a turnover. On those plays where you can't force a turnover you WANT the opposing team to struggle to find good shots, which is exactly what happens regularly against SU zone which is why Syracuse is usually among the elite defensive teams in the country.

Its hard to imagine how short an attention span you'd need to have to prefer your team play bad defense rather than "have" to watch them play 30 seconds (tops) of playing successful defense.
 

Cusegolfer

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the zone defense is the polar opposite of meathead ball. hyper physical teams would never - ever - run zone.



we were at the mercy of the ncaa due to scholly restrictions more than anything



we're returning a full starting line that won 3 tourney games in a weekend last season. Frank is still recovering. it's a long season. things will be fine, chill.
I can't like this post enough times!!!!!
 

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