Laying it out

[Orijinal]

Babers has to stop blaming personnel.

What's he gonna do if losses keep coming? Will he be able to recruit at a level he needs? And if not, will he then keep blaming personnel? You see where this goes.

He's gotta stop sending a message to the team that they are not good enough

You never heard Shafer or Marrone or even Robinson (for goodness sakes) harp on "stars"

Shafer at least knew how to keep games close last year even with Cuse's "stars" against the other teams "stars"

There are problems with special teams coaching. Plain and simple. You don't need a 4 star kicker to keep you from shanking a punt every game. You don't need a 4 star place holder to take a snap so the ball doesn't bobble (you need your back up QB!)

Syracuse certainly has an ability to block for extra points and field goals. They do it most of the time. Consistency is needed. Syracuse can also certainly tackle on special teams. They do that most of the time as well.

I am NOT saying I think any coaches need to be fired. Not defensive or offensive. Goodness sakes, that's the LAST thing this program needs right now. We're 5 games into a new coaching staff on BOTH sides of the ball!!!

But a coach needs to be more ready to take the blame. Half of this problem is coaching consistency. That's to be expected. A staff with an entirely new group of players in a league a large step up from anything they have experienced before. Coaches need time too. If we're patient this will get better. But for now coaches have to bear at least half of this.

 

[Scooch]

Sooooo, care to fill us in on what Babers said that has you so upset?

 

[Crusty]

Babers has to stop blaming personnel.

What's he gonna do if losses keep coming? Will he be able to recruit at a level he needs? And if not, will he then keep blaming personnel? You see where this goes.

He's gotta stop sending a message to the team that they are not good enough

You never heard Shafer or Marrone or even Robinson (for goodness sakes) harp on "stars"

Shafer at least knew how to keep games close last year even with Cuse's "stars" against the other teams "stars"

There are problems with special teams coaching. Plain and simple. You don't need a 4 star kicker to keep you from shanking a punt every game. You don't need a 4 star place holder to take a snap so the ball doesn't bobble (you need your back up QB!)

Syracuse certainly has an ability to block for extra points and field goals. They do it most of the time. Consistency is needed. Syracuse can also certainly tackle on special teams. They do that most of the time as well.

I am NOT saying I think any coaches need to be fired. Not defensive or offensive. Goodness sakes, that's the LAST thing this program needs right now. We're 5 games into a new coaching staff on BOTH sides of the ball!!!

But a coach needs to be more ready to take the blame. Half of this problem is coaching consistency. That's to be expected. A staff with an entirely new group of players in a league a large step up from anything they have experienced before. Coaches need time too. If we're patient this will get better. But for now coaches have to bear at least half of this.

I am not sure what you expect him to say when the whole world can see the problems on TV each week. I prefer he calls it as he sees it. It is high time for a little reality in this program.

 

[orangehomer]

people need to slow down. shafer recruited us into a MAC level D, and that is what shows. talent and depth reveal themselves on special teams and defense. I think babers has done his best to not throw the players under the bus. but obviously there isn't enough.

 

[sdhall01]

Babers has to stop blaming personnel.

What's he gonna do if losses keep coming? Will he be able to recruit at a level he needs? And if not, will he then keep blaming personnel? You see where this goes.

He's gotta stop sending a message to the team that they are not good enough

You never heard Shafer or Marrone or even Robinson (for goodness sakes) harp on "stars"

Shafer at least knew how to keep games close last year even with Cuse's "stars" against the other teams "stars"

There are problems with special teams coaching. Plain and simple. You don't need a 4 star kicker to keep you from shanking a punt every game. You don't need a 4 star place holder to take a snap so the ball doesn't bobble (you need your back up QB!)

Syracuse certainly has an ability to block for extra points and field goals. They do it most of the time. Consistency is needed. Syracuse can also certainly tackle on special teams. They do that most of the time as well.

I am NOT saying I think any coaches need to be fired. Not defensive or offensive. Goodness sakes, that's the LAST thing this program needs right now. We're 5 games into a new coaching staff on BOTH sides of the ball!!!

But a coach needs to be more ready to take the blame. Half of this problem is coaching consistency. That's to be expected. A staff with an entirely new group of players in a league a large step up from anything they have experienced before. Coaches need time too. If we're patient this will get better. But for now coaches have to bear at least half of this.

Doug Marrone cut like 10 players. He didn't say that the players were bad, but I think everybody understood that they were bad.

 

[Orijinal]

people need to slow down. shafer recruited us into a MAC level D, and that is what shows. talent and depth reveal themselves on special teams and defense. I think babers has done his best to not throw the players under the bus. but obviously there isn't enough.

Shafer also gave us Dungey, Strickland, Ishmael, Estime, Franklin, Bennett, Cordy, and Slayton (Also Ealey and Sheppard had they kept their nose clean).

Is Babers recruiting 5 stars now, so next year he can say he has 5 stars too?

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you personally. Just trying to make a larger point

 

[CanadianSU]

His point is if we are 4-8 every year giving up 60 points a game then who would want to sign up ?

 

[CusefanATL]

people need to slow down. shafer recruited us into a MAC level D, and that is what shows. talent and depth reveal themselves on special teams and defense. I think babers has done his best to not throw the players under the bus. but obviously there isn't enough.

shafer was our best recruiter since P got reyes and morant

 

[Briancuse]

It takes time to get talent in here, the cupboard doesn't have a whole lot in it.

 

[Chip]

Shafer also gave us Dungey, Strickland, Ishmael, Estime, Franklin, Bennett, Cordy, and Slayton (Also Ealey and Sheppard had they kept their nose clean).

Is Babers recruiting 5 stars now, so next year he can say he has 5 stars too?

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you personally. Just trying to make a larger point

Thats not nearly enough names, although at a minimum you should add Byrne, Philips, Winfield to it. But still not enough names. And how many of those guys start for our opponents? Slayton for sure. Any other slam dunks?

 

[Bayside44]

Babers has to stop blaming personnel.

What's he gonna do if losses keep coming? Will he be able to recruit at a level he needs? And if not, will he then keep blaming personnel? You see where this goes.

He's gotta stop sending a message to the team that they are not good enough

You never heard Shafer or Marrone or even Robinson (for goodness sakes) harp on "stars"

Shafer at least knew how to keep games close last year even with Cuse's "stars" against the other teams "stars"

There are problems with special teams coaching. Plain and simple. You don't need a 4 star kicker to keep you from shanking a punt every game. You don't need a 4 star place holder to take a snap so the ball doesn't bobble (you need your back up QB!)

Syracuse certainly has an ability to block for extra points and field goals. They do it most of the time. Consistency is needed. Syracuse can also certainly tackle on special teams. They do that most of the time as well.

I am NOT saying I think any coaches need to be fired. Not defensive or offensive. Goodness sakes, that's the LAST thing this program needs right now. We're 5 games into a new coaching staff on BOTH sides of the ball!!!

But a coach needs to be more ready to take the blame. Half of this problem is coaching consistency. That's to be expected. A staff with an entirely new group of players in a league a large step up from anything they have experienced before. Coaches need time too. If we're patient this will get better. But for now coaches have to bear at least half of this.

Well Marrone ran everyone off and SS was the continuity guy so no, neither of those guy would discuss the talent.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Sooooo, care to fill us in on what Babers said that has you so upset?

Yeah, what did Babers say exactly?

 

[orangehomer]

Shafer also gave us Dungey, Strickland, Ishmael, Estime, Franklin, Bennett, Cordy, and Slayton (Also Ealey and Sheppard had they kept their nose clean).

Is Babers recruiting 5 stars now, so next year he can say he has 5 stars too?

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you personally. Just trying to make a larger point

so you want babers to take more blame or something 5 games in? I don't get it. every player you listed is lucky to be ACC average, but we are trying to give shafer credit for recruiting? either babers is good or he is crap, but I will take him over the shafer/marrone days every day of the week.

 

[CusefanATL]

Yeah, what did Babers say exactly?

Babers has heavily inferred that this year isn't going to be the year. I thought it was kind of odd in july or aug. not sure if he said something today - but i had a slight similar feeling before... but my similar feeling felt refreshing to me that a coach wasn't giving us coach speak like shaf or grob.

they need to recruit very specific players to run this style offensively and defensively.

 

[PAcuse]

Was it the comment about them having 4-5 star guys on special teams and us using walk-one and scholarship kids on special teams? I've seen no where where he says our guys are bad. Just the facts of life Louisville, USF, and ND have higher ranked talent all over the field.

 

[CusefanATL]

so you want babers to take more blame or something 5 games in? I don't get it. every player you listed is lucky to be ACC average, but we are trying to give shafer credit for recruiting? either babers is good or he is crap, but I will take him over the shafer/marrone days every day of the week.

the only blame I'm putting on babers right now is special teams disaster. everything else will work its way out. but our overall talent at the very least is OK. our special teams should be a working unit.

it being in shambles, there is no explanation for it.

 

[KellySyracuse]

so are we at the setting the house on fire stage already? Hmmm, what a surprise.

 

[RMH44]

Yeah, what did Babers say exactly?

Nothing egregious. His presser is up top in the post game thread.

Just another reason (strawman) for the OP to b1tch.

 

[DeGrozz]

For some reason, this thread reminded me of CaliCuse and I realized that I haven't seen any of his posts in months. Is he ok? I loved reading his fan-crazed rants.

 

[Orijinal]

Do I think there is a talent gap? Sure
Absolutely. Do I think the "cupboard is bare?" Absolutely not. Hung with ND for a little more than a half with it believe 7 starters out

What I'm saying is it does a disservice to everyone to say stars are why we are losing. 1. You don't GET stars til you win. You gonna keep saying this with every loss hoping that a 5 star will appear while you are winning 4 or 5 games?

Does the 2017 class have a good start? Yes. 4 stars? One. 5 stars? None. Good players? I bet there's a few there that with coaching consistency will have a great ability to win more than they do this year. Can't blame stars next year

I just want coach to say special teams were inexcusable. Say that some plays were left out on the field and this may have been a MUCH closer game otherwise.

I agree with Dino that the team is not that far off. A mistake here, a mistake there. Some improved red zone play calling, and improved red zone drills to make those plays effective, and maybe this team had a win today.

Things like this have nothing to do with stars

 

[Briancuse]

the only blame I'm putting on babers right now is special teams disaster. everything else will work its way out. but our overall talent at the very least is OK. our special teams should be a working unit.

it being in shambles, there is no explanation for it.

Special teams is always on the Hc, you are going to let your Oc run your offense, and let your Dc do the same, but the Head Coach is in charge of special teams. That's one of the reasons that Saban and Meyer are so successful, they place an emphasis on it.

 

[sirLGO]

Shafer also gave us Dungey, Strickland, Ishmael, Estime, Franklin, Bennett, Cordy, and Slayton (Also Ealey and Sheppard had they kept their nose clean).

Is Babers recruiting 5 stars now, so next year he can say he has 5 stars too?

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you personally. Just trying to make a larger point

Of the players you listed only Dungey and maybe Slayton are not easily replaceable.

Strickland is not an ACC RB right now, he's starting because we have literally nobody else at RB that is any threat and can handle calling protections. Ishmael and Estime haven't exactly done much this year and probably wouldn't see the field (other than Estime at PR) if we had even BGSU level talent at WR.

Go watch some tape of Cordy against Louisville and Franklin being out of position against everybody. Bennett is a nice player but not exactly a game changer.

Who was Shafer's best recruit? Strickland? Babers has already recruited an elite 11 QB and a grad transfer WR that is going to have the single best season in Syracuse history by game 8. I'll take my chances with Babers.

 

[Alsacs]

Babers has to stop blaming personnel.

What's he gonna do if losses keep coming? Will he be able to recruit at a level he needs? And if not, will he then keep blaming personnel? You see where this goes.

He's gotta stop sending a message to the team that they are not good enough

You never heard Shafer or Marrone or even Robinson (for goodness sakes) harp on "stars"

Shafer at least knew how to keep games close last year even with Cuse's "stars" against the other teams "stars"

There are problems with special teams coaching. Plain and simple. You don't need a 4 star kicker to keep you from shanking a punt every game. You don't need a 4 star place holder to take a snap so the ball doesn't bobble (you need your back up QB!)

Syracuse certainly has an ability to block for extra points and field goals. They do it most of the time. Consistency is needed. Syracuse can also certainly tackle on special teams. They do that most of the time as well.

I am NOT saying I think any coaches need to be fired. Not defensive or offensive. Goodness sakes, that's the LAST thing this program needs right now. We're 5 games into a new coaching staff on BOTH sides of the ball!!!

But a coach needs to be more ready to take the blame. Half of this problem is coaching consistency. That's to be expected. A staff with an entirely new group of players in a league a large step up from anything they have experienced before. Coaches need time too. If we're patient this will get better. But for now coaches have to bear at least half of this.

Instead of harping on stars Scott Shafer would talk about ISIS and other insane things.

Dino actually get it. Scott Shafer is why the program is in trouble right now. We gave the keys to someone totally in over there head and we are paying for it.

Putting any blame on Babers right now is laughable as he is cleaning up the mess.

 

[Chip]

Instead of harping on stars Scott Shafer would talk about ISIS and other insane things.

Dino actually get it. Scott Shafer is why the program is in trouble right now. We gave the keys to someone totally in over there head and we are paying for it.

Putting any blame on Babers right now is laughable as he is cleaning up the mess.

Shafer vs the podium was a mismatch.

Except for the time Shafer smashed the podium.

He clearly won that one.

 

[orangehomer]

Instead of harping on stars Scott Shafer would talk about ISIS and other insane things.

Dino actually get it. Scott Shafer is why the program is in trouble right now. We gave the keys to someone totally in over there head and we are paying for it.

Putting any blame on Babers right now is laughable as he is cleaning up the mess.

this is all I am trying to say. dino is legit but its impossible to know what the upside is. but it is way better than shafer