LeBron vs Bird at age 30

[Knicks411]

I agree with the "LeBron > Bird" argument overall, but for what it's worth, looking at their age 30 seasons and adjusting for pace:

LeBron's numbers based on points, rebounds, and assists per touch while adjusting touches up to factor in an additional 6+ possessions per game (Boston averaged 98.6 possessions per game compared to Cleveland's 92.3):
26.9 PPG
6.4 RPG
7.9 APG

So it still doesn't match up to Bird's numbers for that particular season, but I do agree that overall, LeBron is better than Bird was at this point. Age 30 happened to be one of Bird's best years while it was nothing special for LeBron at all.

Yeah last year was probably Lebron's worst season in about 7 or 8 years?

 

[Melancer46]

Yeah last year was probably Lebron's worst season in about 7 or 8 years?

Probably somewhere around there lol. It was clearly cherry-picking in the OP.

 

[Knicks411]

Probably somewhere around there lol. It was clearly cherry-picking in the OP.

Wow, I feel like an idiot; this entire time I thought it was comparing careers up to age 30 instead of just one season.

 

[OttosDad]

LeBron James is the best and most physically dominating player the NBA has seen since Wilton Norman Chamberlain. If he wins like 3 or 4 more rings, which is possible with that team assembled in Cleveland, especially if they are healthy. But if he wins 3 or 4 more rings, he will go done as the greatest player ever.

 

[Melancer46]

Wow, I feel like an idiot; this entire time I thought it was comparing careers up to age 30 instead of just one season.

That's what I thought at first glance too, but I knew that couldn't be right. I think the meme was hoping most people would read it that way too.

 

[Melancer46]

LeBron James is the best and most physically dominating player the NBA has seen since Wilton Norman Chamberlain. If he wins like 3 or 4 more rings, which is possible with that team assembled in Cleveland, especially if they are healthy. But if he wins 3 or 4 more rings, he will go done as the greatest player ever.

I'll still take Jordan over LeBron; doubt he can do much to change my mind since he's probably peaked at this point, but we'll see. He's certainly going to end up going down as one of the best ever; easily above Kobe IMO (who I personally rank below Duncan in this era).

 

[Knicks411]

That's what I thought at first glance too, but I knew that couldn't be right. I think the meme was hoping most people would read it that way too.

I thought it was possible only because Bird came into the league relatively late and Lebron started as a teenager so Lebron's numbers could have been dragged down a little

 

[OttosDad]

I'll still take Jordan over LeBron; doubt he can do much to change my mind since he's probably peaked at this point, but we'll see. He's certainly going to end up going down as one of the best ever; easily above Kobe IMO (who I personally rank below Duncan in this era).

Easily. Duncan and LeBron are the top two players of this era, with Shaq, Kobe, and D-Wade rounding out the top 5.

 

[OrangeDW]

How can this even be a discussion, lebron may be more athletic than bird, but bird is mentally stronger than lebron, not to mention better shooter, about even passer, little bit better rebounder (guy got 9 a game with mchale and parish). but let me know when lebron goes against magic johnson, kareem, james worthy and the 80's lakers lol i think that team is a tiny bit tougher than the older spurs

This is why these comparisons across eras don't work. The league was different then. There were fewer teams, and different rules. It's really not possible for a team to get as loaded as the 80's Lakers and Celtics were, now. Lebron will never have as good of a team around him as Bird did...and he will also never have to beat an opponent as good as the 80's Lakers. Different times.

They were both the best of their eras at least for awhile(Bird in the mid 80's until Magic passed him), and Lebron arguably since '07, but undoubtedly since '12.(though history may show '15 as the year Curry passed him...we'll see where it goes from here if it was a one year thing or if it's permanent. Beyond that it's just too hard to compare across eras, so these types of debates will never be solved.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

LeBron James is the best and most physically dominating player the NBA has seen since Wilton Norman Chamberlain. If he wins like 3 or 4 more rings, which is possible with that team assembled in Cleveland, especially if they are healthy. But if he wins 3 or 4 more rings, he will go done as the greatest player ever.

Nope. Jordan trumps all. He is the living definition of competition.

Lebron is an immensely gifted athlete, but Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever. The window for Lebron to even attempt to make a similar claim has already shut.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Wow, I feel like an idiot; this entire time I thought it was comparing careers up to age 30 instead of just one season.

I think the convo went in that direction

Nope. Jordan trumps all. He is the living definition of competition.

Lebron is an immensely gifted athlete, but Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever. The window for Lebron to even attempt to make a similar claim has already shut.

Balls of steel have heavy weight..Confucius say.

 

[Knicks411]

Nope. Jordan trumps all. He is the living definition of competition.

Lebron is an immensely gifted athlete, but Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever. The window for Lebron to even attempt to make a similar claim has already shut.

I think this is probably right. Though I guess let's see how Lebron finishes? I don't know, it looks like we're reached the point where he won't be the best player year in and year out, (he wasn't the best player for last regular season, and I doubt he will be this year either, but he's still the best player to me, if that makes sense) but if he goes on a run where he wins another 3 titles or something, I'd have to think he can at least make it an argument. I would say that Lebron at his absolute peak (I'm going to say the two years they won the title) can go head to head with Jordan at his peak. I'm not saying he was better, but I don't think anyone has been better at basketball than Lebron for those 2 years.

[QUOTE="OrangeDW, post: 1543261, member: 2458"
They were both the best of their eras at least for awhile(Bird in the mid 80's until Magic passed him), and Lebron arguably since '07, but undoubtedly since '12.(though history may show '15 as the year Curry passed him...we'll see where it goes from here if it was a one year thing or if it's permanent. Beyond that it's just too hard to compare across eras, so these types of debates will never be solved.[/QUOTE]

I think his run as the best player in the league started probably in 08 or so? And who would have thought it would be Steph the one to probably pass him instead of KD? Not me.

 

[OttosDad]

Nope. Jordan trumps all. He is the living definition of competition.

Lebron is an immensely gifted athlete, but Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever. The window for Lebron to even attempt to make a similar claim has already shut.

The greatest pound for pound basketball player is and will always be Wilton Norman Chamberlain. Just look at his stats. Tough to argue when the guy put up 50ppg and 29rpg in a season.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The greatest pound for pound basketball player is and will always be Wilton Norman Chamberlain. Just look at his stats. Tough to argue when the guy put up 50ppg and 29rpg in a season.

I don't care. Jordan was better.

 

[Melancer46]

The greatest pound for pound basketball player is and will always be Wilton Norman Chamberlain. Just look at his stats. Tough to argue when the guy put up 50ppg and 29rpg in a season.

Wilt never averaged more than 27.2 rebounds per game in a season (which is obviously still ridiculous, but all stats back then were ridiculous).

If you take the # of possessions teams had in Wilt's famous 50 PPG season and then extrapolate (mind is going blank but I think that's the right word) MJ's numbers for the difference in possessions, MJ would have been expected to average roughly 44 points, 11 assists, and 11 rebounds in his best season (1988-89), which, considering the level of competition, you could argue MJ was more productive statistically while being far more productive in terms of championships and accolades as well.

 

[Knicks411]

Wilt never averaged more than 27.2 rebounds per game in a season (which is obviously still ridiculous, but all stats back then were ridiculous).

If you take the # of possessions teams had in Wilt's famous 50 PPG season and then extrapolate (mind is going blank but I think that's the right word) MJ's numbers for the difference in possessions, MJ would have been expected to average roughly 44 points, 11 assists, and 11 rebounds in his best season (1988-89), which, considering the level of competition, you could argue MJ was more productive statistically while being far more productive in terms of championships and accolades as well.

Yeah it's kind of insane how different the game was back then. They didn't track turnovers so you can't get pace numberx, exactly, but in the 1962 season, the average team took nearly 108 field goal attempts and 37 FT per game. Last year, the average team took 84 FG and 23 FT per game. Just ridiculous. (tangent, league pace this year is over 97 possessions per game compared to 94 last year. Early, but somethign to consider)

The most amazing thing about Wilt was just that he was able to never come out of a game. He averaged 48.5 minutes per game int he 62 season. (which also probably speaks to how different the game was; even the most well conditioned athlete can't play 48 minutes a night now)

 

[OttosDad]

Wilt never averaged more than 27.2 rebounds per game in a season (which is obviously still ridiculous, but all stats back then were ridiculous).

If you take the # of possessions teams had in Wilt's famous 50 PPG season and then extrapolate (mind is going blank but I think that's the right word) MJ's numbers for the difference in possessions, MJ would have been expected to average roughly 44 points, 11 assists, and 11 rebounds in his best season (1988-89), which, considering the level of competition, you could argue MJ was more productive statistically while being far more productive in terms of championships and accolades as well.

Still, you can't argue the Wilt stats. He was also and underrated passer and still Big 12 champion in track and field when he was at Kansas. An overall dominating athlete that gets over looked in my opinion.

 

[Melancer46]

Still, you can't argue the Wilt stats. He was also and underrated passer and still Big 12 champion in track and field when he was at Kansas. An overall dominating athlete that gets over looked in my opinion.

No doubt that his stats are still remarkable (though the rebounding numbers are also helped massively by the fact that players simply sucked at shooting back then relative to today...if you factor in the number of available rebounds per game back then, Chamberlain's rebound % in his best rebounding year is basically identical to DeAndre Jordan's career rebound %.)

Incredible athlete, and easily one of the best players of all-time. But I still think MJ's resume is better.

Edit: This is why I tend to try to avoid debating players across eras... it's just such a drastically different sport that it's nearly impossible to compare stats, especially when you go across different eras AND different positions. Chamberlain is likely the greatest player of his era, and MJ is surely the greatest player of his.

 

[Knicks411]

No doubt that his stats are still remarkable (though the rebounding numbers are also helped massively by the fact that players simply sucked at shooting back then relative to today...if you factor in the number of available rebounds per game back then, Chamberlain's rebound % in his best rebounding year is basically identical to DeAndre Jordan's career rebound %.)

Incredible athlete, and easily one of the best players of all-time. But I still think MJ's resume is better.

Edit: This is why I tend to try to avoid debating players across eras... it's just such a drastically different sport that it's nearly impossible to compare stats, especially when you go across different eras AND different positions. Chamberlain is likely the greatest player of his era, and MJ is surely the greatest player of his.

You'll probably get some pushback from Boston fans on this one...

 

[Melancer46]

You'll probably get some pushback from Boston fans on this one...

Yeah, that's why I went with likely and not surely lol. Depending on your definition of his era, I'd think the top 3 is Chamberlain, Russell, and Oscar in some order.

 

[Shawn91111]

LeBron James is the best and most physically dominating player the NBA has seen since Wilton Norman Chamberlain. If he wins like 3 or 4 more rings, which is possible with that team assembled in Cleveland, especially if they are healthy. But if he wins 3 or 4 more rings, he will go done as the greatest player ever.

Shaquille would like a word

 

[OttosDad]

Shaquille would like a word

Ehhhhhhh I'm not sure I'm willing to have a word with him. Wilt was a monster. He gets lost in history. LeBron and Wilt are probably the two most physically dominating players ever. LeBron can score at will when he wants to.

 

[Shawn91111]

Ehhhhhhh I'm not sure I'm willing to have a word with him. Wilt was a monster. He gets lost in history. LeBron and Wilt are probably the two most physically dominating players ever. LeBron can score at will when he wants to.

And Shaq was what exactly?

 

[OttosDad]

And Shaq was what exactly?

Shaw did that for a much shorter period of time. By the end of his career he was a shell of what he had been.

 

[Shawn91111]

Shaw did that for a much shorter period of time. By the end of his career he was a shell of what he had been.

Most 7'1, 350lb centers in their late 30's usually are. No matter how you slice it, Shaq was incredibly dominate