Let’s play something out…..

[Nick44]

The team loses remaining games, finishes 5-7, and Wildhack announces that Dino will return next year, despite 5 losing seasons in 6 years. Meanwhile, programs within the ACC are replacing their HC’s due to records that are significantly better than the one HCDB currently has.

I am not advocating for his firing, but what is going to change between now and next fall? What is going to bring this fan base back after another 9 month offseason following a losing season? This administration has done a lousy job of keeping the fan base engaged with the program, I don’t see that changing. I also don’t see any change of any type happening which is the biggest shame. It just looks like Wildhack is content with where this program sits. One that averages 3-4 wins a year and near bottom of ACC annually in both power rankings and recruiting rankings.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I am not advocating for his firing, but what is going to change between now and next fall?

The size of Dino's buyout.

Donors front the bill in a lot of cases, and Cuse football doesn't have the loose wallets behind it that other ACC programs do.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The size of Dino's buyout.

Donors front the bill in a lot of cases, and Cuse football doesn't have the loose wallets behind it that other ACC programs do.

And again, I don't see why people can't comprehend this. The Universities primarily don't go out of pocket for these buyouts, Rabid fans/ boosters with a ton of money do. And people who continue to point to the VT situation and call them a peer program which I get it in some ways they are but the 10 mil for Fuentes buyout is booster funded almost 100% guaranteed. So those of you who want Dino fired you can write the big check or find someone that can. Maybe KCSU and his band of angry e-mailers. Only way it gets done this year, IMO. 5 was good enough to spin another year, like it or not. And the fanbase isn't coming back next year with or without a new coach, never has worked that way. Win some games is the only way. 6 wins this year would help

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If the "big money donors/alumni" wanted Dino gone, he'd be gone already.

The fact that he's coming back tells me that most if not all of the big money are OK with him getting one more year.

 

[EuclidBred]

Again, Wildhack can get the money if he wants to.

Again, the “we can’t afford the buyout” is an excuse, not reality.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Again, Wildhack can get the money if he wants to.

Again, the “we can’t afford the buyout” is an excuse, not reality.

Kind of a chicken/ egg argument if said boosters even exist at this point. I am sure the University has some bigger donors with regard to athletics but is the football program a real priority for said donors. If no, then the $ does not exist in reality. If nobody with the actual $ is screaming for a change then it's probably not going to happen. after 5 wins he can probably sell one more year. And like I said, another coaching change isn't going to bring fans back in September of 2022, it's played out at this point.

People can yell at the clouds all they want

 

[Chip]

Again, Wildhack can get the money if he wants to.

Again, the “we can’t afford the buyout” is an excuse, not reality.

How much can he really get? And is that the best use of the resources?

Hey, I know you just gave me $2M so I could hand it to a coach to not coach anymore, but can I also get $2M more for facilities improvements, and could you funnel another $1M to the players through NIL?

Or do we just raid the general fund? Tell the Shaw/Lou era that we want all our athletic department money back with interest?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

How much can he really get? And is that the best use of the resources?

Hey, I know you just gave me $2M so I could hand it to a coach to not coach anymore, but can I also get $2M more for facilities improvements, and could you funnel another $1M to the players through NIL?

Or do we just raid the general fund? Tell the Shaw/Lou era that we want all our athletic department money back with interest?

100%. It's simply not as easy as many are claiming. Not just the $ but the results of where it comes from as well as future funding. Also the expectations of said donation, which most would rather see it put to more productive use instead of which many would perceive as chasing rainbows at this point

Can I also get another 2 mil for the next coach as well.

VT boosters answered this question with a yes and an open checkbook for the most part, have to imagine even there if the next coach fails in 2-3 years the call gets a bit tougher.

I would argue that Syracuse peer schools at this point are NW, Vandy, Duke, and WF

 

[Nick44]

Honestly, I like Dino and would prefer he figure it out and receive another year. Also fearful that if he was let go, schools would be “contacting” players like Tucker, Jones, Williams etc. to transfer which would really bury this program.

But the in-game decisions and the inability to recruit at the same level as your peers is and will remain a hinderance to this program until they are fixed.

 

[Chip]

100%. It's simply not as easy as many are claiming. Not just the $ but the results of where it comes from as well as future funding. Also the expectations of said donation, which most would rather see it put to more productive use instead of which many would perceive as chasing rainbows at this point

Can I also get another 2 mil for the next coach as well.

VT boosters answered this question with a yes and an open checkbook for the most part, have to imagine even there if the next coach fails in 2-3 years the call gets a bit tougher.

I would argue that Syracuse peer schools at this point are NW, Vandy, Duke, and WF

There's a part of me lately that's thinking just let Dino coach until the buyout isn't too high, and if we're still a middling 4-5 win program then why bother paying so much for a head coach?

Marrone is the hail mary, and if he's not coming home then re-think it. Find someone who has coached and had success in the northeast to mid-atlantic at the FCS level, knows the landscape, and just hire him to try to build something like Wake has. Redshirt players, develop them, and try to eventually get consistency thru that.

I don't see the fanbase coming back. I think 30-35k is the new normal. The pool of people that would make up the other 15-20k has expectations that we're just never going to meet. I think they realize that. Yeah, they might pop in for ND next year (or ND fans fill the place), but otherwise, it's just going to be what it is.

Dome improvements didn't help. Hard to blame Covid when the crowd sizes aren't that much different.

It's just part of me that has been thinking that, and games like Louisville bring it back to the forefront. But maybe we can still salvage this thing in these last two game where we'll be double digit underdogs.

I also look at the recruiting class we have lined up for next year and then look away. Seems like that's going to make a dent at some point down the line. And also seems a little late in the game to rescue it.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

There's a part of lately that's thinking just let Dino coach until the buyout isn't too high, and if we're still a middling 4-5 win program then why bother paying so much for a head coach?

Marrone is the hail mary, and if he's not coming home then re-think it. Find someone who has coached and had success in the northeast to mid-atlantic at the FCS level, knows the landscape, and just hire him to try to build something like Wake has. Redshirt players, develop them, and try to eventually get consistency thru that.

I don't see the fanbase coming back. I think 30-35k is the new normal. The pool of people that would make up the other 15-20k has expectations that we're just never going to meet. I think they realize that. Yeah, they might pop in for ND next year (or ND fans fill the place), but otherwise, it's just going to be what it is.

Dome improvements didn't help. Hard to blame Covid when they crowd sizes aren't that much different.

It's just part of me that has been thinking that, and games like Louisville bring it back to the forefront. But maybe we can still salvage this thing in these last two game where we'll be double digit underdogs.

I also look at the recruiting class we have lined up for next year and then look away. Seems like that's going to make a dent at some point down the line. And also seems a little late in the game to rescue it.

yeah certainly not an ideal place to be in and the bottom line is that after the 2018 the University pushed all their chips in and extended Dino. And regardless of people talking out their arse at this point and the wisdom of revisionist history it was a move that the overwhelming majority agreed with. If they didn't we would still be hearing that Syracuse isn't committed to the football program which I find false. I believe the University is for sure just not sure they have the boosters to roll that way when things like this happen and people don't like it. It happens, you gamble and lose quite a bit, at least I do

 

[TheCusian]

Again, Wildhack can get the money if he wants to.

Again, the “we can’t afford the buyout” is an excuse, not reality.

I could buy a new Tesla if I wanted to, but my wife would say that’s a bad investment and the mortgage is more important

It’s always easier to spend other peoples money

 

[syracuse95]

The pool of people that would make up the other 15-20k has expectations that we're just never going to meet.

This. You've got older people (like me) who remember the '90s and want to see us in late '90s form, but they don't really understand how much the landscape of college football has changed since then. You've got younger people who see the success that the basketball program has had and expect that same level of success in the other revenue sport. You've got NFL fans that are used to a level of parity that college football has never had, and even less so now than 30 years ago, so they don't really get how you can be a losing program for so long. And, in reality, you've got fewer of all those groups each year because the population of upstate NY keeps shrinking and our alumni are scattered across the country.

As far as donor money, I think a lot of people grossly overestimate our donor base. I know how much I give to SU athletics, and I know where that puts me in the donor ranking. There may be a few big fish in the pond, but the water is very, very shallow.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Dino is back for '22

The more important, and more realistic questions to be asking, is who will be beside him in the coaches photo

 

[TheCusian]

Honestly, I like Dino and would prefer he figure it out and receive another year. Also fearful that if he was let go, schools would be “contacting” players like Tucker, Jones, Williams etc. to transfer which would really bury this program.

But the in-game decisions and the inability to recruit at the same level as your peers is and will remain a hinderance to this program until they are fixed.

If we fire Dino, next year will be worse no matter what. That’s why when you fire someone the calculation isn’t winning %, but “do we believe this coach can meet our goals”

It’s a different rubric than fans use. If our fans had the money to change the calculation, Wildhack would prob be under pressure to look at it like FSU or Clemson does

 

[Bayside44]

And again, I don't see why people can't comprehend this. The Universities primarily don't go out of pocket for these buyouts, Rabid fans/ boosters with a ton of money do. And people who continue to point to the VT situation and call them a peer program which I get it in some ways they are but the 10 mil for Fuentes buyout is booster funded almost 100% guaranteed. So those of you who want Dino fired wither write the big check or find someone that can. Maybe KCSU and his band of angry e-mailers. Only way it gets done this year, IMO. 5 was good enough to spin another year, like it or not. And the fanbase isn't coming back next year with or without a new coach, never has worked that way. Win some games is the only way. 6 wins this year would help

Exactly. Boosters at VT hated Fuente, so he went. And boosters at places like that run the AD.

Not sure that's a great way to run an AD, it's how people keep ending up with Steve Sarkasian.

 

[ForCuseSake]

I think a small, often overlooked, part of keeping Dino through next year (assuming the team has a .500 record or better) is what it says to potential hires about Wildhack's (and the Admin's) approach to football.

I sincerely doubt another AD exists who would pay his HC ~$4M/year and give him 6+ seasons to prove himself.

And that, to me, would be hugely favorable to many HC candidates. They can try for the bigger gig (over $5M, more donor support, fertile recruiting area) or they can work for an AD who has demonstrated his patience and support to someone he didn't hire.

Regardless of when/how Dino leaves SU, this has to be the approach going forward by the AD/Admin. Selling stability and support helps offset the other parts of the gig that SU comes up short against the competition.

 

[FasterCuse]

Dino is back for '22

The more important, and more realistic questions to be asking, is who will be beside him in the coaches photo

This isn't an attack on you unknown because I've seen all over this board that we need to fire Gilbert. I just don't understanding the logic of not giving him a pass for last year, but in the same breath say 2020 didn't count for Dino because of COVID. It either counts for both coaches or it doesn't.

 

[Chip]

yeah certainly not an ideal place to be in and the bottom line is that after the 2018 the University pushed all their chips in and extended Dino. And regardless of people talking out their arse at this point and the wisdom of revisionist history it was a move that the overwhelming majority agreed with. If they didn't we would still be hearing that Syracuse isn't committed to the football program which I find false. I believe the University is for sure just not sure they have the boosters to roll that way when things like this happen and people don't like it. It happens, you gamble and lose quite a bit, at least I do

Had to renew him. It's the only way it works in this business these days.

You don't renew him, you either lose him (which seemed like a big deal at the time), or the negative recruiting makes his job even harder than it already is.

 

[Chip]

This isn't an attack on you unknown because I've seen all over this board that we need to fire Gilbert. I just don't understanding the logic of not giving him a pass for last year, but in the same breath say 2020 didn't count for Dino because of COVID. It either counts for both coaches or it doesn't.

Changing OCs every couple of years doesn't seem like a winning strategy.

If someone is available and attainable that Dino wants, and maybe wasn't available before, then sure.

Otherwise, it's just throwing a bunch of darts at the board and hoping that one hits the bullseye.

 

[GoSU96]

Again, Wildhack can get the money if he wants to.

Again, the “we can’t afford the buyout” is an excuse, not reality.

When’s the meeting?

 

[upperdeck]

If you could tell me who is gonna be the guy who can recruit here then go for it.. If not then its gonna come down to some good luck on the field to get a good record here.

ESPN had a discussion on a show about the coaching vacanicies and who should go to these big open jobs. They decided its just shooting darts.. USC/Tex/Neb etc.. all failing over and over should tell you switching coaches doesnt always work.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Changing OCs every couple of years doesn't seem like a winning strategy.

If someone is available and attainable that Dino wants, and maybe wasn't available before, then sure.

Otherwise, it's just throwing a bunch of darts at the board and hoping that one hits the bullseye.

Nope, I think if Dino is back in 2022, he retains everyone he can and rolls the dice. I am going out on a limb and thinking Gilbert will be back as he won't be highly sought after.

 

[Scooch]

I am not advocating for his firing, but what is going to change between now and next fall? What is going to bring this fan base back after another 9 month offseason following a losing season?

To answer your two questions:

1) What will change is another offseason of player development. Ideally Shrader works like hell on his passing, the OL works on their technique, the WRs work on their hands, and we put Sean Tucker in a sleep chamber so nothing can happen to him until September. Hopefully we find a couple DLmen in the portal, and the back 7 comes back relatively intact. Hopefully we'll be better. If not, they can fire him. I mean, they can fire him this season too if JW wants to. I'm over obsessing about other people's decisions.

2) Nothing will bring the fan base back other than winning. A new coach might pop a decent attendance for game 1 if we give a lot of tickets away, but that's about it. I just don't worry much about the fan base anymore. If people think we're good and have some hope that we can win games, they'll show up. Our attendance in 2019 was solid right up until the last home game. People make this aspect of the program more complicated than it needs to be. Just win some games, and we'll get crowds in the low-40s against conference opponents. Maybe pop a sell out when a big-name team comes to town. That's fine.

To put this in perspective, my daughter is a freshman at UVA. Last weekend they played ND at home, and didn't come remotely close to selling out. They had a crowd of 48K in a 61K seat stadium. And UVA is having a decent season with a star at QB.

 

[Chip]

To answer your two questions:

1) What will change is another offseason of player development. Ideally Shrader works like hell on his passing, the OL works on their technique, the WRs work on their hands, and we put Sean Tucker in a sleep chamber so nothing can happen to him until September. Hopefully we find a couple DLmen in the portal, and the back 7 comes back relatively intact. Hopefully we'll be better. If not, they can fire him. I mean, they can fire him this season too if JW wants to. I'm over obsessing about other people's decisions.

2) Nothing will bring the fan base back other than winning. A new coach might pop a decent attendance for game 1 if we give a lot of tickets away, but that's about it. I just don't worry much about the fan base anymore. If people think we're good and have some hope that we can win games, they'll show up. Our attendance in 2019 was solid right up until the last home game. People make this aspect of the program more complicated than it needs to be. Just win some games, and we'll get crowds in the low-40s against conference opponents. Maybe pop a sell out when a big-name team comes to town. That's fine.

To put this in perspective, my daughter is a freshman at UVA. Last weekend they played ND at home, and didn't come remotely close to selling out. They had a crowd of 48K in a 61K seat stadium. And UVA is having a decent season with a star at QB.

I think we need a WR from the portal too. Hopefully that magical AET is out there, looking for a chance.

I didn't even realize that about 2019 attendance. Maybe there's some hope after all, but the difference was that Dino was on the upswing. It gets harder once they've written him off, as 2019, 2020, and possibly 2021 if we end 5-7 will have done.