Let’s play something out…..

[HRE Otto IV]

If you could tell me who is gonna be the guy who can recruit here then go for it.. If not then its gonna come down to some good luck on the field to get a good record here.

ESPN had a discussion on a show about the coaching vacanicies and who should go to these big open jobs. They decided its just shooting darts.. USC/Tex/Neb etc.. all failing over and over should tell you switching coaches doesnt always work.

We don't need a great recruiter. It isn't asking much to get to 6 Ws. We typically play an FCS and two G5s. So that should be 3-0 most years. For now we play FSU, Louisville, Pitt, NC State, Wake, and BC every year. Is it asking too much to go 2-4 against that group? We will put Clemson in the L column. That leaves us 5-5 with one game against a Coastal team and one game against Notre Dame or another P5 team.

We are a program that should be in the 5 to 7 W range every year. Overall we should be around .500. You can achieve those numbers giving the level of our recruiting the past decade.

 

[upperdeck]

you have a base of 20-25K and thats about it.. Until things get better outside you will get the 60-75% to show up of those STH and then you get a mix of one offs for other games.. 30K every game

I dont care how good the team is until people can move around again we wont see crowds for FB..

 

[upperdeck]

We don't need a great recruiter. It isn't asking much to get to 6 Ws. We typically play an FCS and two G5s. So that should be 3-0 most years. For now we play FSU, Louisville, Pitt, NC State, Wake, and BC every year. Is it asking too much to go 2-4 against that group? We will put Clemson in the L column. That leaves us 5-5 with one game against a Coastal team and one game against Notre Dame or another P5 team.

We are a program that should be in the 5 to 7 W range every year. Overall we should be around .500. You can achieve those numbers giving the level of our recruiting the past decade.

yes and we are in the 5-7 range this year with several games that went the wrong way late and one bad effort..

Much like Miami/VT/FSU/UNC/Lou/BC/Virg. should we all fire our coaches?

If Rutgers fluke doesnt happen we are not even having a discussion right now.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I think we need a WR from the portal too. Hopefully that magical AET is out there, looking for a chance.

I didn't even realize that about 2019 attendance. Maybe there's some hope after all, but the difference was that Dino was on the upswing. It gets harder once they've written him off, as 2019, 2020, and possibly 2021 if we end 5-7 will have done.

I think we need 2-3 wide receivers from the portal. It’s the weakest group on the team. The current group are not ACC level receivers.

 

[UnknownOrange]

This isn't an attack on you unknown because I've seen all over this board that we need to fire Gilbert. I just don't understanding the logic of not giving him a pass for last year, but in the same breath say 2020 didn't count for Dino because of COVID. It either counts for both coaches or it doesn't.

For sure. I'm not calling for Gilbert's head per se. It's like Back To The Future and our Special Teams coach is completely faded out. I hope Marty can fix things and get that person back in full color

 

[RF2044]

I think we need 2-3 wide receivers from the portal. It’s the weakest group on the team. The current group are not ACC level receivers.

Only if they are the right players -- upgrades.

I'd take one #1 WR type to bolster a group that includes Jackson, Alford, Pena, Cooper, etc. [to say nothing of Williams / Gadsen].

With the portal attrition, we should actively seek to add several experienced players at key positions of need -- OC, DT, DE, WR, DB.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

yes and we are in the 5-7 range this year with several games that went the wrong way late and one bad effort..

Much like Miami/VT/FSU/UNC/Lou/BC/Virg. should we all fire our coaches?

If Rutgers fluke doesnt happen we are not even having a discussion right now.

Having 5 to 7 Ws means the bad years should be 5-7. That shouldn't been the average or typical year. Dino needs to prove he can get to 6 Ws. The reason why we aren't at 6 yet this year is more on Dino and less on luck.

 

[Orangello]

I'm resigned to DB returning next year. The bigger issue in my mind is what if, by chance, he has a winning record next year going into the final year of his contract? At that point he would still have a pretty crappy overall and ACC record and 2 (possibly 3) winning seasons out of 8. I would not want him extended in that scenario and would simply let the contract run out. I also think it's highly unlikely as next year's schedule looks much tougher than this years (which was the year he really needed to hit it).

 

[supp]

The size of Dino's buyout.

Donors front the bill in a lot of cases, and Cuse football doesn't have the loose wallets behind it that other ACC programs do.

Those loose wallets and short tempers don't necessarily lead to success and stability. Only a revolving HC door. Not a reason to keep Babers but definitely a reason not to bow down to some booster's ego.

 

[supp]

I'm resigned to DB returning next year. The bigger issue in my mind is what if, by chance, he has a winning record next year going into the final year of his contract? At that point he would still have a pretty crappy overall and ACC record and 2 (possibly 3) winning seasons out of 8. I would not want him extended in that scenario and would simply let the contract run out. I also think it's highly unlikely as next year's schedule looks much tougher than this years (which was the year he really needed to hit it).

So we should preemptively fire the guy to avoid a winning season? Wow.

 

[Bayside44]

I'm resigned to DB returning next year. The bigger issue in my mind is what if, by chance, he has a winning record next year going into the final year of his contract? At that point he would still have a pretty crappy overall and ACC record and 2 (possibly 3) winning seasons out of 8. I would not want him extended in that scenario and would simply let the contract run out. I also think it's highly unlikely as next year's schedule looks much tougher than this years (which was the year he really needed to hit it).

So - if per chance he has a winning season this and next you wouldn't extend the guy? At Syracuse?

 

[supp]

There's a part of me lately that's thinking just let Dino coach until the buyout isn't too high, and if we're still a middling 4-5 win program then why bother paying so much for a head coach?

Marrone is the hail mary, and if he's not coming home then re-think it. Find someone who has coached and had success in the northeast to mid-atlantic at the FCS level, knows the landscape, and just hire him to try to build something like Wake has. Redshirt players, develop them, and try to eventually get consistency thru that.

I don't see the fanbase coming back. I think 30-35k is the new normal. The pool of people that would make up the other 15-20k has expectations that we're just never going to meet. I think they realize that. Yeah, they might pop in for ND next year (or ND fans fill the place), but otherwise, it's just going to be what it is.

Dome improvements didn't help. Hard to blame Covid when the crowd sizes aren't that much different.

It's just part of me that has been thinking that, and games like Louisville bring it back to the forefront. But maybe we can still salvage this thing in these last two game where we'll be double digit underdogs.

I also look at the recruiting class we have lined up for next year and then look away. Seems like that's going to make a dent at some point down the line. And also seems a little late in the game to rescue it.

IF Babers has to go after next year AND Marrone doesn't want to come back, why not try to hire the Wake guy? Clearly he's not sexy enough for the big schools. Throw Babers dollars at him. Wake is not in the greatest shape. Clawson voluntarily took a 10% pay cut last year because of Covid-related budget issues.

 

[Newhouser]

I'm resigned to DB returning next year. The bigger issue in my mind is what if, by chance, he has a winning record next year going into the final year of his contract? At that point he would still have a pretty crappy overall and ACC record and 2 (possibly 3) winning seasons out of 8. I would not want him extended in that scenario and would simply let the contract run out. I also think it's highly unlikely as next year's schedule looks much tougher than this years (which was the year he really needed to hit it).

I too think that is a concern - what if by chance he wins 6 or 7 games next year...we extend him? Do we really want that? I'm on record that settling for 5-7 wins a year is not what I want our program to be. IF the school does they should let us know, but nowhere in life is settling for mediocrity a good thing.

 

[Orangello]

So - if per chance he has a winning season this and next you wouldn't extend the guy? At Syracuse?

To have a winning record this year he'd have to win the next two or win one of the next two get a bowl invite and win that. I don't see it but, to answer your question, no I would not extend if somehow he pulls it off this year and next. I've seen enough and believe we can do better.

 

[FloridaFan]

So - if per chance he has a winning season this and next you wouldn't extend the guy? At Syracuse?

Give him a 2 year deal with a low buyout if he makes 6-6 both years

 

[supp]

Give him a 2 year deal with a low buyout if he makes 6-6 both years

Can't recruit with a two-year deal. Give him a four-year deal and minimum buy-out for the final two years.

 

[Bayside44]

To have a winning record this year he'd have to win the next two or win one of the next two get a bowl invite and win that. I don't see it but, to answer your question, no I would not extend if somehow he pulls it off this year and next. I've seen enough and believe we can do better.

OK - in that perfect for Dino scenario I think that's nuts for SU. But agree to disagree.

 

[Whitey23]

I think we need 2-3 wide receivers from the portal. It’s the weakest group on the team. The current group are not ACC level receivers.

What WR, that can help, is going to transfer to a school with a QB in place that can't throw?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

To have a winning record this year he'd have to win the next two or win one of the next two get a bowl invite and win that. I don't see it but, to answer your question, no I would not extend if somehow he pulls it off this year and next. I've seen enough and believe we can do better.

There are maybe a baker's dozen of really good HCs out there. And maybe another dozen or so decent HCs out there. And inversely there are a dozen or so really bad HCs out there and another dozen or so of bad HCs. The vast majority of HCs are mediocre.

If Dino gets to a Bowl this year and next he certainly belongs in that mediocre group. The chances of his replacement being one of the good ones is the same as his replacement being one of the bad ones. And if we do get one of the good ones, he won't be here very long as there is a dearth of good HCs and much bigger programs than ours.

Dave Clawson is a pretty good HC. But before this year his best ACC record was 4-4!!!! Even with cupcake OOC schedules from year 3 through year 7 his record at Wake was 34-27 (17-22) or an average of 6.8-5.4 (3.4-4.4). Also his biggest win of his career was last week vs NC State. His 2nd biggest win is beating 23rd ranked NC State in 2017. He also was 0-3 vs Shafer. So if 6-6 isn't good enough and we can do better, who exactly are we getting? A good HC like Clawson wouldn't do much better.

We should be rooting for Dino to pull off a Bowl this year and next. And then extend him. It can get much worse than that.

 

[SUDadx2]

It just looks like Wildhack is content with where this program sits.

I don’t think anyone is content with where the program sits today, especially after the poor performance last Saturday. But, I assume Wildhack and others, myself included, are “content” with the overall direction of the program.

The team has improved. And with most starters projected to return for 2022 I’m going to tighten my seatbelt and hang on for the rest of this season.

The rest of the season will be though. We will likely be double digit underdogs for both games.

For a little perspective…

What did the “experts” predict for the preseason over/under for total wins for this team, 3.5? The team beat those experts.

So far this team is 8-2 against the spread. The team has done better than the “experts” predicted on eight occasions.

I like beating the experts.

I like how we stack up for 2022.

 

[EuclidBred]

Kind of a chicken/ egg argument if said boosters even exist at this point. I am sure the University has some bigger donors with regard to athletics but is the football program a real priority for said donors. If no, then the $ does not exist in reality. If nobody with the actual $ is screaming for a change then it's probably not going to happen. after 5 wins he can probably sell one more year. And like I said, another coaching change isn't going to bring fans back in September of 2022, it's played out at this point.

People can yell at the clouds all they want

The chicken or the egg argument is a good one. My point being is the money is there for Wildhack. He may decide it's not the best use of those resources, which is fair.

However, at some point the conversation turns to how much more it costs for the program in the long run to keep underachieving. Not an easy decision at all.

 

[phil77]

I have come to the realization we are Duke and just have to deal with it. Where mediocre coaching is accepted and rewarded. The only hope for the football program is that Dino learns how to coach and recruit in the offseason.

 

[richard levy]

Wildhack is busy trying to raise $150 million to develop some sorts of sports complex? at manley. He was giving my Raymour/Flanagan friend the pitch at Arad Evans the other night. Interestingly, Mike Paulus was also with them in his role with the AD

 

[Chip]

I think we need 2-3 wide receivers from the portal. It’s the weakest group on the team. The current group are not ACC level receivers.

If Alford, Gadsden, Hatcher, Ja. Williams all aren't ACC level receivers at some point, then we either can't develop WRs, or every school missed on them. Because they were offered by enough good P5s to think they should be legit.

Problem is that they need a little more time, and just need one guy to help anchor next year.

 

[Trueblue25]

If we end with 5 wins, ADJW should begin gauging interest in replacements and allow Dino the out of conference schedule in 2022 to save his job. Most of us agreed here. It was a bowl or game over this year.