Lets be clear here, Marrone coached 50 games here

[BlazeOrange]

And I don't think there are many people who know football who would deny that Syracuse was absolutely a Top 20 team by the end of this season.

Unfortunately, it appears that the small group of deniers also happened to have votes in the coaches and writers polls.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

And his offense sucked for about 38-40 of those games, my point here is not to pile on Doug. I certainly wanted him to stay and I am one that has not much issue with anything that he has done, remember before the hot finish people were dropping names of replacements for both he and Hackett. Coaching is strike while the iron is hot because it's sink or swim. I thought Doug was nothing short of horrendous the last 5-6 games of 2011. I think the job became too much for him the final part of last year but he regrouped and then regrouped the last 7 games in 2012

However, people waxing poeting about the offensive prowess of the Marrone/ Hackett era need to remember that it took them at least 3 full years to put a decent product as far as offense out there. It took 3 years to produce a consistent offensive line, qb play, wide receivers. What happened to all our receivers not being able to beat press coverage? We didn't have enough speed? Our running backs weren't fast enough, etc etc etc etc. Running game and O line helps everyone.

Hey, Hack and Marrone did a great job this year but lets not get carried away here, sure Marrone left Syracuse with a case of red ass and went scorched earth on us, but BFD. Marrone did a lot of good things here but I certainly would not classify him and Hackett as Offensive gurus... Not if you look at the total body of work.

My point is the new guys may need some time as they lost a lot as well but there were no guarantees that Hackett and Marrone were going to repeat 2012 either, we lost a lot. Their history didn't bode well if you look at it. That said, I am very optimistic and very fired up for Coach Shafer. I have only met him once but I think he will be embraced by the Syracuse community, he carries a much smaller stick than Marrone, much less ego, more in tune with a town like Syracuse than Doug.

Helluva post.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't think people are mad that Marrone's gone, it's the way he left. At least that's how I feel.

There are two things I think fans can be pissed about re: Marrone's exit.

1. The obvious desperation to get out, after selling the fans so hard on his "dream."

2. Claiming in the press to not be looking at a guy with Hackett's profile, and supposedly lying to SU about his interest in taking Hackett with him.

It has been interesting watch how fast the glow of Marrone has worn off. People are finally able to admit the warts.

 

[rrlbees]

how does that even out the strength of schedule though?

i didnt say it did completely. i said kind of. 7 of the games at least are vs the same teams. and i'm more interesteed in how we stack up against teams we play/played. does marshall really have a top 10 offense?

 

[orangenirvana]

Unfortunately, it appears that the small group of deniers also happened to have votes in the coaches and writers polls.

You can't ignore the beginning of the season. That counts also, which is why they weren't ranked. But that doesn't mean they weren't one of the Top 20 (or better) teams in the nation at the end of the season.

 

[Cuseregular]

How do you know what he told his employer and coaches? Reports say Gross was in the loop the entire time. He doesn't tell the recruits anything, because until he has an agreement with a team, he's SU's coach. How many people would've been screaming "stupidity" if he publicly announced he was seeking NFL jobs and called all of the recruits to tell them the same thing the minute he decided to interview for a job, only to not get any and return to SU? People would've said he was hamstringing his whole program and should've kept his mouth shut until he knew whether or not he was leaving. Which is what he did.

actually reports suggest that Gross was not in the loop and in fact was blindsided by DM moves, to the point where Marrone swooped in at the 11th hr and took NH unexpectedly as he was set to resign with SU. This when he said he WAS NOT going to take any coordinators. ZA was lied to twice through DM re DM not interviewing and that Hackett was staying. I'm sure it was part of the reason ZA bailed when turned out the opposite to both were true.

Don't you guys read the board here? It's all been listed in detail (and these are facts btw). Anyway it could've been smoother, it wasn't, so be it, not interested in another give and take on it.

Moving on.....

 

[orangenirvana]

actually reports suggest that Gross was blindsided by DM moves, to the point where Marrone swooped in at the 11th hr and took NH unexpectedly as he was set to resign with SU. This when he said he WAS NOT going to take any coordinators. ZA was lied to twice through DM re DM not interviewing and that Hackett was staying. I'm sure it was part of the reason ZA bailed when turned out the opposite to both were true.

Don't you guys read the board here. It's all been listed in detail (and these are facts btw). Anyway it could've been smoother, it wasn't, so be it, not interested in another give and take on it.

Moving on.....

When did he say he wasn't going to take any coordinators?

 

[Millhouse]

i didnt say it did completely. i said kind of. 7 of the games at least are vs the same teams. and i'm more interesteed in how we stack up against teams we play/played. does marshall really have a top 10 offense?

eh. you're still comparing our schedule to the schedule of all the teams we played. maybe the teams we played had good offenses and bad defenses, i don't know. i prefer to look at everything. there are lots of teams that play good schedules and there's no reason to think there are more marshalls on offense than utah states on defense

 

[Cuseregular]

When did he say he wasn't going to take any coordinators?

bees can ya help a brotha, I'm done with this.

 

[orangenirvana]

bees can ya help a brotha, I'm done with this.

Again, people's emotions are distorting reality. Which is fine, I understand.

 

[rrlbees]

eh. you're still comparing our schedule to the schedule of all the teams we played. maybe the teams we played had good offenses and bad defenses, i don't know. i prefer to look at everything. there are lots of teams that play good schedules and there's no reason to think there are more marshalls on offense than utah states on defense

but the bottom line is i would take our offense over our defense this year. that doesn't translate to comapring them against marshall. it does comparing them against the teams we actually played and which formed my opinion.

 

[rrlbees]

Again, people's emotions are distorting reality. Which is fine, I understand.

not really. according to tgd he was told by marrone he wouldnt take the coordinators. that is why tgd was working up new contracts with them and the day hack was signing, the bomb was dropped which blindsided tgd.

what i just wrote isnt emotion but comes from someone that spoke to tgd.

for some reason, marrone lost a lot of respect from a lot of people on the hill. so maybe just maybe, things aren't quite like you think they are and just business as usual.

 

[KaiserUEO]

im down with what barrel says, but im in the What catagory.

its not like he just went 11-2 and beat florida in the sugar bowl.

he was a Tom Coughlin-esque 'fired in Oct'......then goes on to beat a couple of crappy schools, gets a big win, barely finishes over .500 and wins his 3rd tier bowl against a team whos season is the yang to Syracuse's ying and then ALL OF A SUDDEN hes in the NFL???!!!

What??? you got work to do here buddy!!!

its more confusing than anything else. i get why he left and i get why his assistants would go with him, but i just cant fathom the circumstances which put this process in motion.

i guess, i kinda thought that hed be bringing in his NFL buddies to buffalo, like Charmichael and the such. but it doesnt seem like any NFLers want to work with him. his offensive staff is Syracuse's and his defensive is jet-cast offs.

very strange.

i guess this wasnt the place for him. so F him, glad hes gone. see you at the Alumni Social. bring your checkbook.

Oh Lord

 

[Millhouse]

but the bottom line is i would take our offense over our defense this year. that doesn't translate to comapring them against marshall. it does comparing them against the teams we actually played and which formed my opinion.

our offense was better than our defense in yards. one decent year of offense yards gets the guy an nfl gig and we keep the guy who was superior in points every single year. admit it though, you didn't think there was anyway our defense had a better year in points than the offense did. i sure didn't

 

[orangenirvana]

not really. according to tgd he was told by marrone he wouldnt take the coordinators. that is why tgd was working up new contracts with them and the day hack was signing, the bomb was dropped which blindsided tgd.

what i just wrote isnt emothin but comes from someone that spoke to tgd.

for some reason, marrone lost a lot of respect from a lot of people on the hill. so maybe just maybe, things aren't quite like you think they are and just business as usual.

Things change. Maybe Gross misinterpreted what Marrone told him. Maybe Marrone said he'd try not to take the coordinators but after Carmichael turned him down Hackett was his next choice. Maybe Hackett told him he was leaving SU for another job anyway and Marrone figured hiring him instead of seeing him go to a possible rival would actually help SU.

Or maybe Marrone is a sociopath. I don't know.

All I'm saying is I see people on this forum villifying him or telling themselves that he stunk as a coach, which is wrong but understandable. That's what fans do.

 

[Millhouse]

not really. according to tgd he was told by marrone he wouldnt take the coordinators. that is why tgd was working up new contracts with them and the day hack was signing, the bomb was dropped which blindsided tgd.

what i just wrote isnt emotion but comes from someone that spoke to tgd.

for some reason, marrone lost a lot of respect from a lot of people on the hill. so maybe just maybe, things aren't quite like you think they are and just business as usual.

everyone on the hill gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

 

[Crusty]

Another way to look at it though to kind of even out the conference someone plays in and the SOS is to just look at it comapred to the BCS team you played, not all 117 or whatever number of schools. I only looked at 2012 (too lazy) and amongst the 12 BCS teams and ourselves(13 teams) we were;

Offense 6th
Defense 9th

FWIW.

If I understand what you did correctly, we were pretty mediocre to bad on both sides of the ball.

 

[orangenirvana]

im down with what barrel says, but im in the What catagory.

its not like he just went 11-2 and beat florida in the sugar bowl.

he was a Tom Coughlin-esque 'fired in Oct'......then goes on to beat a couple of crappy schools, gets a big win, barely finishes over .500 and wins his 3rd tier bowl against a team whos season is the yang to Syracuse's ying and then ALL OF A SUDDEN hes in the NFL???!!!

What??? you got work to do here buddy!!!

its more confusing than anything else. i get why he left and i get why his assistants would go with him, but i just cant fathom the circumstances which put this process in motion.

i guess, i kinda thought that hed be bringing in his NFL buddies to buffalo, like Charmichael and the such. but it doesnt seem like any NFLers want to work with him. his offensive staff is Syracuse's and his defensive is jet-cast offs.

very strange.

i guess this wasnt the place for him. so F him, glad hes gone. see you at the Alumni Social. bring your checkbook.

Oh Lord

Marrone was already on the short lists of a few organizations when he left New Orleans for Syracuse. The fact that he turned Syracuse around in just four years was enough to make him a very hot commodity.

Did you really expect Pete Carmichael to leave New Orleans with Drew Brees as his QB for Buffalo with Ryan Fitzpatrick as his QB? And does the fact that he didn't want to do that proof that no NFL'ers want to work with him? Doubtful.

 

[rrlbees]

If I understand what you did correctly, we were pretty mediocre to bad on both sides of the ball.

13 teams. would put us average on offense below average on defense.

 

[creeker46]

when a college coach takes an NFL job, why wouldnt he take the guys that helped land the job in the first place. besides, do you think the new offensive coordinator wouldnt want his own staff that he is comfortable with?

 

[rrlbees]

our offense was better than our defense in yards. one decent year of offense yards gets the guy an nfl gig and we keep the guy who was superior in points every single year. admit it though, you didn't think there was anyway our defense had a better year in points than the offense did. i sure didn't

stats are stats. they are never apples to apples. i like using points more than yards as you do (shafer does too). but even at that, how many points by each team were scored by the defense or special teams? those points scored, or given up, aren't a reflection on either the offense or defense.

way i look at is this. 4th quarter, we need to score i was pretty confident. 4th quarter, we needed a stop, i wasn't as confident. thats also not saying our defense wasn't good, because it was. but i had more faith in our offense. except for 2010, i never felt like our defense was great, jusy good.

 

[sutomcat]

agree...to be more specific, i think Nassib, Lemon,Thomas, Marrone, Hackett, Adkins and Wheatley will miss having a dominant lt like Pugh. The team's fortunes changed significantly when he became fully integrated into the lineup, particularly in the games following Pitt. Not to say the others didn't have a great season...just that Pugh seemed to be the tipping point (particularly after he got a few games under his belt) that got a dominant ground game going late in the season, which opened up the pass, controlled the clock and quite frankly, made everyone look better. With Pugh, we had the best talent in the big east. Of everyone noted on the list, Pugh is a sure fire NFL candidate; the rest i wish success but i'm not as confident.

Agree, we will miss Pugh greatly. Best OL we have had in a very long time.

I don't think we need someone as good as he was to have a successful offense though. The problem with the offense before Justin came by was more than the RT that was only playing because Hickey was forced to play LT in Pugh's absense, was really really really really bad. Watch the tape of the Minnesota game. The pass blocking by the RT was so bad it destroyed our ability to run plays. His performance against Northwestern and USC was not much better.

We didn't need Pugh to beat NW or Minnesota. We just needed a decent, average Joe RT that could delay the pass rusher a few seconds, stay on sides and sometimes occupy his man on running plays.

 

[Millhouse]

stats are stats. they are never apples to apples. i like using points more than yards as you do (shafer does too). but even at that, how many points by each team were scored by the defense or special teams? those points scored, or given up, aren't a reflection on either the offense or defense.

way i look at is this. 4th quarter, we need to score i was pretty confident. 4th quarter, we needed a stop, i wasn't as confident. thats also not saying our defense wasn't good, because it was. but i had more faith in our offense. except for 2010, i never felt like our defense was great, jusy good.

that's college football. teams score a lot. you wouldn't have faith in many defenses. that's why you should compare to everybody.

 

[Millhouse]

Marrone was already on the short lists of a few organizations when he left New Orleans for Syracuse. The fact that he turned Syracuse around in just four years was enough to make him a very hot commodity.

Did you really expect Pete Carmichael to leave New Orleans with Drew Brees as his QB for Buffalo with Ryan Fitzpatrick as his QB? And does the fact that he didn't want to do that proof that no NFL'ers want to work with him? Doubtful.

i don't know who makes these short lists, but they're idiots

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Agree, we will miss Pugh greatly. Best OL we have had in a very long time.

I don't think we need someone as good as he was to have a successful offense though. The problem with the offense before Justin came by was more than the RT that was only playing because Hickey was forced to play LT in Pugh's absense, was really really really really bad. Watch the tape of the Minnesota game. The pass blocking by the RT was so bad it destroyed our ability to run plays. His performance against Northwestern and USC was not much better.

We didn't need Pugh to beat NW or Minnesota. We just needed a decent, average Joe RT that could delay the pass rusher a few seconds, stay on sides and sometimes occupy his man on running plays.

Question is will we find a second tackle next year??