Let's Be Clear: $$$$$$$$$$$$$ with ACC

[Scooch]

Yes it has as was the $80m for the other bowls. But the sharing was explained much differently.

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Did people really think the ACC was keeping all of the Orange Bowl money?

I mean you have to pay your opponent *something*.

 

[omniorange]

Did people really think the ACC was keeping all of the Orange Bowl money?

I mean you have to pay your opponent *something*.

I think we all knew that.

The question that remains to be answered is, if the ACC gets a second team into one of the non-semi-final Access Bowls and that team is paid a flat rate of $10 million then this is a bad deal. If that team gets $20 million then it's a fair market deal.

I blame Swofford because he's the one who made a big deal out of the ACC having "sole" rights to the Orange, unlike the Rose and the Sugar, which in turn inflated expectations in terms of the payout to the ACC while recognizing the overall value would be less than the other two.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[rrlbees]

Did people really think the ACC was keeping all of the Orange Bowl money?

I mean you have to pay your opponent *something*.

I didn't. Thats why I said in my first post that I never believed the numbers. I remember specially it being said that the OB could give a team $5m which was more than anyone would get elsewhere and the ACC would keep the rest.

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[omniorange]

I didn't. Thats why I said in my first post that I never believed the numbers. I remember specially it being said that the OB could give a team $5m which was more than anyone would get elsewhere and the ACC would keep the rest.

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Most of the projections I saw when it was 60 million saw it as a 40/20 split and when it was lowered to 55 million a 37.5/17.5 split.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[arbitragegls]

Okay everyone, and cudos to following omniorange, cuseman, Bees, and many more, I poured a large Jack and Coke and made a call to my cousin/mean source to get refined and defined $$$$ dollar figures. After going through more than one of my favorite libations, I made some headway...but a few facts that we all need to accept/believe--for better or worse:
1. Fact: initial posting indicated a 50% share of the $55 million for the Orange Bowl going to the ACC...(round up all #s) that is $2 million each team
--this is $1 million below the SEC per team (14 team conference like ACC) for Champion Bowl)
--does not include significant increase in $$$ if Notre Dame is opposite team rather than a team from a conference--estimated at more than another $1.5 per ACC team--not counted in the final $$$ dollar number below
2. Fact: new TV contract that starts with 'Cuse and Pitt averages $17 million year
--this does not include "look-ins-- taking place in 5 year periods which should result in increased $$$-not iincluded in $$$ below
3. Fact: new BCS bowl payouts will be minimally $390 million dollars/yr for length of contract (payout after contract bowls) BUT does not minimize $$$ paid to the 5 conferences that have the three contract bowls
--There are 10 conferences that are considered part of Division 1
--The split of dollars will be $390 million divided by 10 conferences
--The big boy table which includes ACC, SEC, B1g, Pac 12 and Big 12 will receive a larger percentage/year-- than little group-- and that share will be equal
--It is projected that $235,000,000 of the $390,000,000 (and maybe more) will go to the Big Boy table shared equally is $47,000,000 or for ACC per team $3 million (dont forget conference takes 1 share to run the conference)
4. Projected fact: Notre Dame entry for playing 2-3 home games plus olympic sports will add minimally another $1,500,000 to TV contract above raising it to $18,500,000 when Notre Dame leaves the BE and comes to ACC (this total of $18,500,000 is used below)
5. Fact: $$$ do not include bowl revenue to be shared from other bowls such as Belk, Pin Stripe, etc etc. These dollars are esitmated to be even higher than previous because Notre Dame is now included and therefore will raise ACC take from before Notre Dame--not included below

So here are $$$ at what is believed to be a minimum. Note, no where in previous post were other conferences included and or compared to...yes the ACC will still be behind other conferences in total revenue. Now what is not included in the $$$ number below:
1. Notre Dame in Orange Bowl rather than SEC or B1G: estimated at $1,500,000 per ACC team--root for Notre Dame!
2. 5 year look-ins
3. Dollars from non BCS bowls--all bowls ACC goes to that are not in the 6 top tier bowls--estimated to be between $1,250,000 and $1,750,000 per team
4. Does not include revenue from NCAA BBall championships...could add another $500,000 to $1,000,000 or more

Projected $$$$: TV: $18,500,000
Orange Bowl (not ND) $ 2,000,000
Big Boy payout $ 3,000,000
Minimum Payout/team $23,500,000*

Note: We could add following to project maximum:
1.Notre Dame in Orange Bowl: $1,500,000
2. Non top tier bowls: $ 1,250,000 (low)
3. NCAA BBall: $ 750,000 (average)
4. Five yr lookins: $ 750,000 (low)

what revenue may be with what ifs: $27,750,000

For 'Cuse and Pitt and the other ACC teams that $23,500,000 is a terrific revenue stream for the next 12 years. All ACC teams have known the Orange Bowl dollars for some time...all have known the TV contract...for the most part vs. other big boy conferences with 14 teams, the dollar ratio per team has gotten a bit closer due to $$$ associated with Notre Dame.

Bottom line, initial post was definitely in ball park and this provides a bit more transparency as to where numbers came from.

Discuss away...and thank you for all your input, questions, and passion to be 'Cuse.

 

[rrlbees]

Okay everyone, and cudos to following omniorange, cuseman, Bees, and many more, I poured a large Jack and Coke and made a call to my cousin/mean source to get refined and defined $$$$ dollar figures. After going through more than one of my favorite libations, I made some headway...but a few facts that we all need to accept/believe--for better or worse:
1. Fact: initial posting indicated a 50% share of the $55 million for the Orange Bowl going to the ACC...(round up all #s) that is $2 million each team
--this is $1 million below the SEC per team (14 team conference like ACC) for Champion Bowl)
--does not include significant increase in $$$ if Notre Dame is opposite team rather than a team from a conference--estimated at more than another $1.5 per ACC team--not counted in the final $$$ dollar number below
2. Fact: new TV contract that starts with 'Cuse and Pitt averages $17 million year
--this does not include "look-ins-- taking place in 5 year periods which should result in increased $$$-not iincluded in $$$ below
3. Fact: new BCS bowl payouts will be minimally $390 million dollars/yr for length of contract (payout after contract bowls) BUT does not minimize $$$ paid to the 5 conferences that have the three contract bowls
--There are 10 conferences that are considered part of Division 1
--The split of dollars will be $390 million divided by 10 conferences
--The big boy table which includes ACC, SEC, B1g, Pac 12 and Big 12 will receive a larger percentage/year-- than little group-- and that share will be equal
--It is projected that $235,000,000 of the $390,000,000 (and maybe more) will go to the Big Boy table shared equally is $47,000,000 or for ACC per team $3 million (dont forget conference takes 1 share to run the conference)
4. Projected fact: Notre Dame entry for playing 2-3 home games plus olympic sports will add minimally another $1,500,000 to TV contract above raising it to $18,500,000 when Notre Dame leaves the BE and comes to ACC (this total of $18,500,000 is used below)
5. Fact: $$$ do not include bowl revenue to be shared from other bowls such as Belk, Pin Stripe, etc etc. These dollars are esitmated to be even higher than previous because Notre Dame is now included and therefore will raise ACC take from before Notre Dame--not included below

So here are $$$ at what is believed to be a minimum. Note, no where in previous post were other conferences included and or compared to...yes the ACC will still be behind other conferences in total revenue. Now what is not included in the $$$ number below:
1. Notre Dame in Orange Bowl rather than SEC or B1G: estimated at $1,500,000 per ACC team--root for Notre Dame!
2. 5 year look-ins
3. Dollars from non BCS bowls--all bowls ACC goes to that are not in the 6 top tier bowls--estimated to be between $1,250,000 and $1,750,000 per team
4. Does not include revenue from NCAA BBall championships...could add another $500,000 to $1,000,000 or more

Projected $$$$: TV: $18,500,000
Orange Bowl (not ND) $ 2,000,000
Big Boy payout $ 3,000,000
Minimum Payout/team $23,500,000*

Note: We could add following to project maximum:
1.Notre Dame in Orange Bowl: $1,500,000
2. Non top tier bowls: $ 1,250,000 (low)
3. NCAA BBall: $ 750,000 (average)
4. Five yr lookins: $ 750,000 (low)

what revenue may be with what ifs: $27,750,000

For 'Cuse and Pitt and the other ACC teams that $23,500,000 is a terrific revenue stream for the next 12 years. All ACC teams have known the Orange Bowl dollars for some time...all have known the TV contract...for the most part vs. other big boy conferences with 14 teams, the dollar ratio per team has gotten a bit closer due to $$$ associated with Notre Dame.

Bottom line, initial post was definitely in ball park and this provides a bit more transparency as to where numbers came from.

Discuss away...and thank you for all your input, questions, and passion to be 'Cuse.

Everyone agrees that this deal no matter the exact numbers, is a great revenue stream for SU compared to where we were or where we would be if still in the BE. No doubt about that.

The latest discussion has been centered on how the ACC made out compared to the SEC, B10, etc.

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[MaxwellCuse]

No doubt we (the ACC) are financially behind the SEC and B1G, or for that matter the PAC and B12, for now. But we have a chance to play catch-up with those conferences with the "look-ins" IF ACC football teams can begin winning again. FSU needs to schedule like a "big boy team" and win those games. Clemson, VT, Miami and NC need to show up on the field (and in the case of the latter 2, without cheating). Syracuse can make a big statement for itself and the league by WINNING in the ACC. Wins in-season and wins in the bowls will be necessary to move the ACC into a truly equitable situation with the other 4 conferences.

 

[Guinness]

The latest discussion has been centered on how the ACC made out compared to the SEC, B10, etc.

^ This.

While a great deal for SU it is not a great deal for teams like FSU and Clemson who are competing directly with in state rivals in the SEC. This gap is only going to increase speculation that FSU and Clemson are looking elsewhere.

 

[arbitragegls]

^ This.

While a great deal for SU it is not a great deal for teams like FSU and Clemson who are competing directly with in state rivals in the SEC. This gap is only going to increase speculation that FSU and Clemson are looking elsewhere.

Interesting but I actually have another take. First and foremost the association with Notre Dame is good for ACC's pocket book and adds a few dollars closer to the other big boy conferences. Secondly, the big boy split for the after contract bowls is equal-no lost ground there. Third, OB is going to generate $1,000,000 less than the SEC because of the higher price for the Champions bowl...but that will not set the FSU/Clemson running. Fourth, and most importantly, is whether the ACC can field two strong teams a year to make two entries into the Top tier bowls...and if Notre Dame plays in the Orange Bowl. This scenario presents:
1. Notre Dame in OB an additional estimated $1.5 million per team based on a lower cut than a conference
2. Two teams in Top tier bowls provides significant additional dollars...one team in OB which is counted and another in the top tier and that probably is close to another $1mm per team.
3. Don't discount the 5 year look-ins...if ACC teams begin to play up to expectation dollars will roll in; and 4
4. this is most interesting and money maker. If conference winners get an advantageous nod for the semi's and NC...Notre Dame will come into the ACC in a reasonable time--playing 5 teams now and moving to 8 still allows ND to play a national geographic schedule plus Navy (wherever Notre Dame wants game). Notre Dame would cover the East, middle Atlantic and South in the ACC...and get the West with USC or Stanford plus add Navy and then two additional teams to be named...maybe Texas, Oklahoma, etc.
ACC is a bit down in revenue...but it is picking up steam and heading in the right direction. 'Cuse is in a great place...and it is only going to get better!!!!

 

[Guinness]

Interesting but I actually have another take. First and foremost the association with Notre Dame is good for ACC's pocket book and adds a few dollars closer to the other big boy conferences. Secondly, the big boy split for the after contract bowls is equal-no lost ground there. Third, OB is going to generate $1,000,000 less than the SEC because of the higher price for the Champions bowl...but that will not set the FSU/Clemson runningFourth, and most importantly, is whether the ACC can field two strong teams a year to make two entries into the Top tier bowls.. ..and if Notre Dame plays in the Orange Bowl. This scenario presents:
1. Notre Dame in OB an additional estimated $1.5 million per team based on a lower cut than a conference
2. Two teams in Top tier bowls provides significant additional dollars...one team in OB which is counted and another in the top tier and that probably is close to another $1mm per team.
3. Don't discount the 5 year look-ins...if ACC teams begin to play up to expectation dollars will roll in; and 4
4. this is most interesting and money maker. If conference winners get an advantageous nod for the semi's and NC...Notre Dame will come into the ACC in a reasonable time--playing 5 teams now and moving to 8 still allows ND to play a national geographic schedule plus Navy (wherever Notre Dame wants game). Notre Dame would cover the East, middle Atlantic and South in the ACC...and get the West with USC or Stanford plus add Navy and then two additional teams to be named...maybe Texas, Oklahoma, etc.
ACC is a bit down in revenue...but it is picking up steam and heading in the right direction. 'Cuse is in a great place...and it is only going to get better!!!!

I don't disagree about the 'Cuse being in a better place. That said not every school sees it the way we do. There will be a lot of crying by other fan bases about the ACC screwing up again.

Totally agree about the on field performance needing to improve. That is the one thing that could fix everything.

 

[Scooch]

Re: FSU and Clemson or whomever else may be jealous of what their SEC in-state rivals will be making... all they need to do is win games and they'll close that gap right quick.

It's that simple.

Step 1: Win some games.
Step 2: Land an at-large spot in a big money bowl.
Step 3: Profit.

Ultimately everyone in the ACC is getting more than enough money to do what they need to do in terms of building facilities, float non-revenue sports, etc.

If the folks at FSU are going to be forever bitter because they make $3M less a year than Florida, than so be it.

 

[Guinness]

If the folks at FSU are going to be forever bitter because they make $3M less a year than Florida, than so be it.

I am of the opinion that FSU should leave already so the ACC can fill their spot with someone who wants to be here. Like Louisville or UConn.

 

[TexanMark]

arbitragegls:

Thanks so much for spelling out all this. Anyways shouldn't we be able to add another $5M or so to cover our local Tier 3 stuff (IMG, TWC, coaches shows, maybe a future contract with YES or MSG, etc...). Isn't it sort of a misnomer we signed over all Tier 3 rights? Schools like SU, UNC, FSU, etc...actually bring in more money with these out of ESPN TV contract deals?

 

[MaxwellCuse]

arbitragegls:

Thanks so much for spelling out all this. Anyways shouldn't we be able to add another $5M or so to cover our local Tier 3 stuff (IMG, TWC, coaches shows, maybe a future contract with YES or MSG, etc...). Isn't it sort of a misnomer we signed over all Tier 3 rights? Schools like SU, UNC, FSU, etc...actually bring in more money with these out of ESPN TV contract deals?

I'd like to hear arbitragegls take on the "Tier 3" rights also. The WVU/Big12 bashers love to point out that the ACC signed away millions of dollars worth of T3 rights for peanuts after forcing member schools to assign those rights to the conference. I don't believe this is accurate, but I haven't read a clear explanation of exactly what did happen to those rights.

 

[IthacaMatt]

From day 1 I have questioned the numbers tossed out by some here and the notion that the ACC teams were going to be even close to on par with the others. Great for SU and Pitt from where we were, not so much for the rest.

The ACC just doesn't have the appeal other conferences do. Never have, never will. But as an SU fan, it's all good.

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I disagree with that. Miami, Fla State, Virginia Tech are all great programs. They just have to raise the level of play so they are all good at the same time, and then the ACC will do just fine.

 

[SU2NASA]

Re: FSU and Clemson or whomever else may be jealous of what their SEC in-state rivals will be making... all they need to do is win games and they'll close that gap right quick.

It's that simple.

Step 1: Win some games.
Step 2: Land an at-large spot in a big money bowl.
Step 3: Profit.

Ultimately everyone in the ACC is getting more than enough money to do what they need to do in terms of building facilities, float non-revenue sports, etc.

If the folks at FSU are going to be forever bitter because they make $3M less a year than Florida, than so be it.

Step 2b: ???
Step 3: Profit

 

[Scooch]

Step 2b: ???
Step 3: Profit

 

[Dadarules]

arbitragegls, Cuseman & OmniOrange - thanks SO MUCH for the efforts expalining all this. I seriously appreciate it a great deal. I kind of felt like I was asking what channel the game was on - like it was information I should already know and\or it was said before but I just couldn't find it.

Sincere thanks again for the efforts!!

 

[kirbivore]

The B1G commish is a genius. Securing big money for his league while putting garbage football on the field. As a person whose been forced to watch Big East games the past 10 years I know garbage when I see it.