Let's get real on the talent level here

[OttoinGrotto]

If we're at the bottom of the recruiting rankings then how can you say the talent is there? On paper it's not there, on the field it's not there, how can you say it is when we have two wins over a power 5 team the past 2 years? Both of them against the only team worse than us, which is sadly debatable.

The coaching is bad and the talent is bad. This is a bad program at this point and it pretty much has to be torn down.

I see it like this - we're not reeling in the type of players that will get us wins simply by out-talenting our conference opponents. Some of them maybe, but not all of them.

I do think we have enough talent though to win enough games on our schedule to make bowls every year. String a few of those years together and between the bonus practices and the bump in perception and I think we start recruiting to the point where we can out-talenting more teams on our schedule.

 

[PAcuse]

We've missed on a ton of the "hype" guys that have come here. It seems to be happening at very important positions. QB we've missed on 4 now until Dungey, WR name someone besides Ishmael that has done anything. Enoicy and Custsis where going to be just what we needed with there size and ability...The safety position has been destroyed due to rap career, transfer, and NCAA (or maybe the kids grades). These misses probably would have been okay in the Big Least, but ACC you can't afford this many misses if you are Syracuse.

 

[tep624]

To me the issue is lack of talent & production coming from the older classes left from the Marrone era. Where are the senior WR's that are left over from Marrone? Where are the senior RB's left over from the Marrone era? Do you think Nick Robinson & other upper classmen recruited by Marrone are going to the NFL? Are any Marrone recruits knocking it out of the park? Oh yeah let's start Austin Wilson at QB...that's what Marrone left Shafer.

Truth be told the cupboards were not exactly stacked with ACC talent for Shafer to build on. Last I heard we were getting 70% of offensive production from Freshmen.

Yes Shafer has made some in game mistakes, I get it, but it's not the case that he took over a team that was stacked with talent and blown it...talent level has been the real rebuilding exercise and we are finally getting those guys on the field.

This is something I wanted to show and it really brings to life an important point:

Starters on 2 Deep by Recruiting Class

2015 Recruits (2)
QB - Dungey
RB - Fredericks

2014 Recruits (8)
WR - Ishmael
HB - Phillips
DT - Slayton
DT - Samuels
LB - Bennett
LB - Franklin
CB - Hudson
SS - Cordy

2013 Recruits (4)
WR - Estime (Shafer)
LB - Hodge (Marrone)
CB - Winfied (Shafer)
FS - Scissum (Shafer)

2012 Recruits (4)
C - Emerich
RT - Palmer
TE - Parris
DE - Thompson

2011 Recruits (4)
OT - Foy
OG - Robinson
DE - Simmons
OG - Trudo

This gives a good measuring stick on what Shafer was left work with and how it affects the talent level this season. Having 4 guys left from the 2011 class and are still starters is probably a bit light but appropriate considering our depth issues in the past and kids getting rushed to the field. So I'm ok with that.

The 2012 and 2013 classes is really where the problem is here. If you look at the 2012 class, there was so much attrition from that class. In a class of 21, 9 did not finish their careers here. That's almost half the class. You follow that up with the 2013 class that was ravaged by Marrone leaving in the fashion that he did, and you literally have to combine both 2012 and 2013 to have a full class between the two years. What is even more glaring about 2013 is the lack of Marrone recruits from that class that stuck that are still making an impact. Hodge and Arciniega are it on the 2 deep.

Shafer has 10 starters from his first 2 full classes, with 2015 having a bunch of guys at 2nd string. And in my opinion, although young, most of those guys have looked pretty good for their age/class.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This is something I wanted to show and it really brings to life an important point:

Starters on 2 Deep by Recruiting Class

2015 Recruits (2)
QB - Dungey
RB - Fredericks

2014 Recruits (8)
WR - Ishmael
HB - Phillips
DT - Slayton
DT - Samuels
LB - Bennett
LB - Franklin
CB - Hudson
SS - Cordy

2013 Recruits (4)
WR - Estime (Shafer)
LB - Hodge (Marrone)
CB - Winfied (Shafer)
FS - Scissum (Shafer)

2012 Recruits (4)
C - Emerich
RT - Palmer
TE - Parris
DE - Thompson

2011 Recruits (4)
OT - Foy
OG - Robinson
DE - Simmons
OG - Trudo

This gives a good measuring stick on what Shafer was left work with and how it affects the talent level this season. Having 4 guys left from the 2011 class and are still starters is probably a bit light but appropriate considering our depth issues in the past and kids getting rushed to the field. So I'm ok with that.

The 2012 and 2013 classes is really where the problem is here. If you look at the 2012 class, there was so much attrition from that class. In a class of 21, 9 did not finish their careers here. That's almost half the class. You follow that up with the 2013 class that was ravaged by Marrone leaving in the fashion that he did, and you literally have to combine both 2012 and 2013 to have a full class between the two years. What is even more glaring about 2013 is the lack of Marrone recruits from that class that stuck that are still making an impact. Hodge and Arciniega are it on the 2 deep.

Shafer has 10 starters from his first 2 full classes, with 2015 having a bunch of guys at 2nd string. And in my opinion, although young, most of those guys have looked pretty good for their age/class.

I feel like this suggests the cupboard isn't bare. At the very least, we have a lot of young guys with legitimate game experience.

 

[tep624]

I feel like this suggests the cupboard isn't bare. At the very least, we have a lot of young guys with legitimate game experience.

Exactly. If a new HC takes over and is able to retain the players currently in the program, he'll have a lot to work with. The biggest question marks are the secondary and the O line IMO. We have a lot of young guys in the pipeline for the O line though so we'll have to see how they develop.

 

[orangepassion]

Biggest mistake was not bringing in a few JC guys to supplement the young guys. If you saw the roster at the end of last season, you could see this coming

 

[OrangeSky]

I feel like our younger player talent level is "uncertain".

I'm not sure how these younger guys will end up in comparison to other ACC teams, but I do know they'll need top notch developmental coaching to do it. So far, I haven't seen much progress on that front.

 

[Fly Rodder]

There are what 48-50 P5 schools? Syracuse is one of them and has consistently reeled in classes that are ranked in the high 50s and low 60s. That's not good. Yes, they can be competitive (they're not an DII school) and there will always be diamonds in the rough, but damn if they want to win, they're going to have start getting classes in the 30s. I do think new or massively renovated facilities will go a long way in recruiting. Good coaching can overcome talent deficiencies and good talent can overcome some size/speed issues, but Syracuse seems to be below average or worse in each of those categories.