Lineup / set changes required to salvage the season | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Lineup / set changes required to salvage the season

I've sad this a bunch recently. Our basketball team is very similar to our football team during the Shafer years (and NO I am not comparing the overall results... nor am I comparing Shafer to Boeheim). Simply making a comparison to the "feel" that the games have.
See I always thought Shafer coached as if he thought we were a mid major.
JB recruits higher rated kids but our playing style is clearly play a slow game and use defense to win.
I think if we had a faster PG we would look to push as we do when Carey comes in thus Carey needs to play more.
The problem with our offense is the 5 position is a complete non factor and our other 2 forwards want to be perimeter threats. Brissett atleast tries to post occasionally but he wants to be a perimeter threat.
Thus we can’t play inside out and out offensive becomes dribble, dribble, dribble pass let someone else try to go 1 on 1 dribble, dribble pass and/or put up a 3.
To have a better offense we either need a speedy PG who will push pace or have a threat in the blocks to open the driving for other players.
 
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But you're saying that Frank at less than 100% is still better than Carey at 100%, right?
Honestly with how banged up Frank looks his minutes should be lower than Carey so he can try to get healthy.
If Battle/Brissett plan on going after the year a medical RS for Howard wouldn’t be the worse thing. Let him get healthy and give his minutes to Carey. It’s not like we can’t white knuckle without Howard.
 
100% not happening.
We have the scholarship right?
We don’t have 13 for next yet right?
I would take a RS Senior Frank with the young kids we got coming.
Our only Junior on the roster is Battle and he will be gonzo.
Need a leadership to go with experience.
Frank/Carey start next year.
Guerrier/Boeheim/Goodine/JG3 bench.
Freshman coming right in and playing well is hard to expect when we don’t go for the top 10 kids.

Medical RS is 12 games in right?
Howard isn’t healthy I would consider it.
 
We have the scholarship right?
We don’t have 13 for next yet right?
I would take a RS Senior Frank with the young kids we got coming.
Our only Junior on the roster is Battle and he will be gonzo.
Need a leadership to go with experience.
Frank/Carey start next year.
Guerrier/Boeheim/Goodine/JG3 bench.
Freshman coming right in and playing well is hard to expect when we don’t go for the top 10 kids.

Medical RS is 12 games in right?
Howard isn’t healthy I would consider it.
Still tons of season left though. Can't RS Howard and move forward with a freshman PG into ACC play, with the only back-up being a soph coming off of an ACL tear.
 
But you're saying that Frank at less than 100% is still better than Carey at 100%, right?

If you want to put it that way. Frank was much better Saturday or I should say the team was better.
 
Still tons of season left though. Can't RS Howard and move forward with a freshman PG into ACC play, with the only back-up being a soph coming off of an ACL tear.
I am thinking big picture. Maybe next year we could win it all with a Senior RS Healthy PG.
I don’t see this team being a contender and don’t want a waste FH’s Senior year with him with 60-80% all year.

Now if he isn’t interested in a RS then it’s pointless but I would consider it if I were a coach and thinking long term.
 
Good point, I can't remember the last time we had a drive and a dish for a dunk or layup.
Imo its the difference, in our “system”, between our best offensive teams and this.

I stand by that Christmas did not magically develop between his junior and senior years. He was that good earlier. We’ve just lacked guards that look for the open dunk. Ennis did a great job with it. Scoop and MCW did pretty well too.
 
RF and Coach Orange provide the best analysis of the team.
I hope the offense improves. As another bubble season will suck but I am expecting little to change other than hopefully Frank gets healthier and we our 3’s fall.
If we make shots we can win road games.
This team isn’t a NC contender though and that was the preseason hype. Even with a healthy Frank and Carey this isn’t a NC contender.

I really wish we would see some of Coach Orange - I miss his insights

And yes, I'm trying to goad / guilt him back into posting. It's been too long.
 
I usually avoid the forum after a loss, as the knee jerk reactions are often as unpleasant as the loss itself. I'm actually pleased to see that things are fairly tame today.

Given how the season has unfolded, its been apparent that the injuries prevented the team from gelling properly in the preseason, and given Frank's lack of mobility, he's hurting us out there and making our offensive struggles worse.

Two years ago, we struggled immensely in the preseason portion of our schedule -- then got a lot more competitive [including beating three top 10 teams] after making some lineup changes. There are a couple that need to happen now, given the execution we're seeing on offense.

First, with all due respect to a veteran like Frank [who is one of my favorite players on the team -- full disclosure], it is time for him to sit until he's physically recovered. Please note, that doesn't mean that he shouldn't play -- but he needs to come off of the bench as a stabilizing factor, instead of going through the motions when he's physically impaired. This might seem harsh [especially given the way I've been rah-rah about this kid in the past], but this is an opportunity for Frank to show leadership, and he might be able to earn his way back into the lineup later in the season, when he's back at full strength. Plus, I'm willing to bet that he'll be better playing full tilt for 10 minutes, instead of 70% for longer stretches of minutes.

Carey shifts into the starting point guard role in his place, and is given a green light to attack. Speed is his weapon, and he should be directed to push the ball at every available opportunity to see if the team get get easy scoring opportunities in transition. When the team secures a rebound, players like Battle, Hughes, Brissett, in particular need to be coached to get out and fill a lane. IF a good "take" doesn't manifest, then settle back into the half court offensive set. Carey needs to get into the lane -- he's shown that he can do a lot of damage there, both as a scorer and passer. But he has to do more than just be a conduit in half court sets to swing the ball around the perimeter. More on this later.

Hughes also bumps out of the starting lineup. Not because he's been inadequate, but because the team just seems to perform better with Dolezaj on the floor. Marek is playing starter's minutes anyway -- this just makes it official.

In terms of the lineup, that makes the starters Carey, Battle, Dolezaj, Brissett, and Chukwu. Hughes becomes the first sub off the bench, essentially subbing for four positions [and having the others just shift around] other than Carey. Frank subs for Carey, and Sidibe subs for Chukwu. For now, Boeheim gets parked until he shows a bit more readiness.

Bringing Hughes / a hopefully healing Howard off the bench gives us two guys capable of scoring double figures as reserves. In the event that the team just can't get started, bringing them in could be a shot in the arm. Or, if the team gets off to a fast start, then you roll with it and adjust accordingly on a game-by-game basis.

In terms of offensive sets, I honestly am not seeing the iso stall ball that some seem to complain about every game. I see a team that is running a motion offense, with lots of guys looking to potentially drive. Battle can do it a little, same with Hughes, and same with Brissett. But when those opportunities aren't there, we end up just swinging the ball around the perimeter aimlessly as the shot clock winds down, until somebody has to force. That's not "iso," it's wasting the shot clock and then having to force.

The issue I have with that is not the concept behind what the team is doing. They are moving the ball swiftly, they [on paper] have several shooters, and they have a couple of guys [including forwards] who can put the ball on the floor and create if there's space. The problem is -- THERE ISN'T SPACE most of the time. Why? Because we're playing four out, and sometimes five out if the center is used as a screener, so the defense can sit back and keep the ball outside because they aren't afraid that we're going to burn them from deep. Against Ohio State, that backfired because we shot ~50% from three point range. But against most teams, they're content to let us swing the ball around and shoot 33% from behind the arc -- it plays into their hand.

So what's the antidote... because the other elements are in place for this offense to actually work? Well, the main thing that's lacking is forcing the defense to react, which in turn creates vulnerabilities that can be exploited. This can be accomplished in two ways. One, make an entry pass into the post -- either on a drive or on a feed. Obviously, Chukwu isn't a guy we can force the ball into a la Rak, but look at how different things were in the second half against Georgetown, when we got the ball inside a couple of times off of forcing defensive movement -- Chukwu scored 8 points and had a couple of key buckets when defenders were out of position. So, whether off of a drive or an entry pass, the ball has to go inside, and force the defense to react to it. I also wonder if Brissett could be "this guy" on offense for us. He seems better suited for it anyway than Chukwu, despite the inefficieny finishing inside.

Another wrinkle would be to do what teams consistently look to do against us -- get the ball to the foul line extended. THIS might be what would work best for our team, as we have several people who could do damage there. Brissett. Dolezaj. Battle. Hughes. Hell, ODU used a 6-4 guy there, and that guy could turn and face up for a mid-range jumper, or take the ball into the paint and pass it to open spots when the defense collapsed. We could certainly emulate that same style with someone like Battle or Hughes or Brissett.

Why would this be effective? Because it would force the defense to react. And when that happens, space opens up, and it would be up to that facilitator / play maker to make the correct read. If the shot is there, take it. If the baseline opens up, then deliver the ball for a baseline three or someone cutting. And if the center comes out to challenge, then dump the ball down to the big. Of if guards dump down to follow the ball to the free throw line, then kick it back up top for a wide open three [like teams consistently do against us]. We have the right personnel to run this type of set and do damage -- no matter which player ends up being in that facilitator role.

The difference between our sets now is that swinging it around the perimeter makes it easy for defenses to defend us and force long shots. Getting the ball down low or at the free throw line extended forces the defense to make a choice. Watch how UVa plays against us -- heck, watch most college teams, and you'll see that there is a constant probing of what the defense will do. Again, we've got the personnel to make this work and thrive doing it. This wouldn't be a fundamental change, it would just be a nuance that the team could be coached to do.

I'm reminded of something an old coach once told me during a losing streak, about how when things seem bleak, you need to focus on execution and let things take care of themselves. The offense has potential, it just needs to be tweaked to put our players in the best chance to succeed and score more points. And the only way to do that is to [1] get out in transition and actively seek easy scoring opportunities, and [2] by adjusting the offense slightly to put more pressure on opposing defenses.

My two cents.

"Bringing Hughes / a hopefully healing Howard off the bench gives us two guys capable of scoring double figures as reserves. In the event that the team just can't get started, bringing them in could be a shot in the arm. Or, if the team gets off to a fast start, then you roll with it and adjust accordingly on a game-by-game basis."

This, a million times, this.

I am floored that the Hughes/Dolezaj switch even needs to be made and that Boeheim didn't just have Hughes as a reserve right off the bat. A lot of the crap we talk about on here is academic - Boeheim's gonna do what Boeheim thinks is the best thing to do and it really doesn't matter.

But not having your instant-offense sub situation and instead starting the undersized utility scorer while having the cerebral/rhythm guy coming off the bench? I don't remember this happening before, it flies in the face of Boeheim's long history of looking for the substitution advantage while also milking everything he can out of a starter.

I hope he makes this change.
 
I disagree with Hugues off the bench. He should be the 1a /#2 option on offense. He's the only one on this team who seems to consistently make a peremeter shot. I'm floored he doesn't get at least 5-10 more shots per game.
 
I love some of the discussion in this thread. Really gettin to the nitty gritty. I'm a bit pessimistic about the solution, though.

I just think that no matter what guard/wing lineup we go with, we are still majorly flawed at center.
Do we play our current centers to maintain natural positions, and just live with the ineptitude. Or play Marek and run and live with what we get on d?

I ate crow at the end of last year because I predicted Chukwu would not be a competent player. He gave us some good games at the end of the season. But I was still worried. This year, I said it all depended on whether Sidibe could get healthy because I thought he showed more promise. He still looks injured to me and Chukwu looks worse than the end last year. So, I don't know how you fix anything until you fix the center situation.
 
Lets see how we do in the ACC and tomorrow.

Gtown-ODU was a tough 2 game stretch.

We should be really questioning why we play games like this with no reward at all if we win and not peer P5 programs. We get mocked for not scheduling teams like that and playing road games OOC. Our players can't get motivated to play former Big East foes. Why not start scheduling like Duke, UK, UT etc just maybe not as many tough games?
 
Brisset is shooting worse from 3. He's playing 6 less minutes but taking more shots, if anything he needs to shoot less.
As one poster put last week Brissett néeds to work inside out instead of outside in. Start with aa few 2 pointers in the block and spread from there.
 
"Bringing Hughes / a hopefully healing Howard off the bench gives us two guys capable of scoring double figures as reserves. In the event that the team just can't get started, bringing them in could be a shot in the arm. Or, if the team gets off to a fast start, then you roll with it and adjust accordingly on a game-by-game basis."

This, a million times, this.

I am floored that the Hughes/Dolezaj switch even needs to be made and that Boeheim didn't just have Hughes as a reserve right off the bat. A lot of the crap we talk about on here is academic - Boeheim's gonna do what Boeheim thinks is the best thing to do and it really doesn't matter.

But not having your instant-offense sub situation and instead starting the undersized utility scorer while having the cerebral/rhythm guy coming off the bench? I don't remember this happening before, it flies in the face of Boeheim's long history of looking for the substitution advantage while also milking everything he can out of a starter.

I hope he makes this change.
I agree. I think Hughes is a 2 easily in our system but we have Battle so he is at 3 which makes us a shorter team defensively. I think as u stated he comes off bench like waiters did for us. Get him some run at 2 guard along with 3. Give us a boost coming in and scoring. Merck needs to play a lot somewhere and it’s not at the five even though we are hurting there.
 
Lets see how we do in the ACC and tomorrow.

Gtown-ODU was a tough 2 game stretch.

We should be really questioning why we play games like this with no reward at all if we win and not peer P5 programs. We get mocked for not scheduling teams like that and playing road games OOC. Our players can't get motivated to play former Big East foes. Why not start scheduling like Duke, UK, UT etc just maybe not as many tough games?

:confused:
 
The 5 and Brisset have to do their job in the zone and Brisset has to start imposing his physicality and scoring within 15 on offense.

I wish he’d watch tapes of Jerami Grant, he’s not Dirty Southerland.

With Hughes and Battle we could easily, easily have an inside out game with brissett CATCHING the ball on the block or charity strike and either looking to score/draw the foul or hit open Hughes/Battle/Frank. Hell, even look for Marek, he’s noticeably improved imo.
and there is nothing wrong with being Grant - he's making a name in the league and a ton of $. OB is not near the athlete but ...
 
and there is nothing wrong with being Grant - he's making a name in the league and a ton of $. OB is not near the athlete but ...

Grant is in a perfect spot. Hope he stays there for awhile. He is by far our most productive NBA player right now.
 
and there is nothing wrong with being Grant - he's making a name in the league and a ton of $. OB is not near the athlete but ...
But could still play to his current strengths which is 15 ft and in.
 
But could still play to his current strengths which is 15 ft and in.

Oshae shoots 38% on 2’s
Trevor Cooney shot 41% on 2’s
Cj Fair shot 48% on 2’s
Jerami Grant shot 50% on 2’s
Brandon Triche shot 50% on 2’s
Tyler Lydon shot 54% on 2’s

A lot of the guys I mentioned with Oshae were vilified on this board for not playing to fans expectations while people here think Oshae is great and he’s not even the offensive player any of those guys were.
 
I agree. I think Hughes is a 2 easily in our system but we have Battle so he is at 3 which makes us a shorter team defensively. I think as u stated he comes off bench like waiters did for us. Get him some run at 2 guard along with 3. Give us a boost coming in and scoring. Merck needs to play a lot somewhere and it’s not at the five even though we are hurting there.

My only guess about the Hughes situation is that Boeheim's logic goes like this:

1) We need scorers on the floor.

2) Battle has next to no point-guard skills.

3) If Hughes comes off the bench, he's either replacing Battle (same skillset) or the starting point guard (leaving us with no point guard).

4) With 80 potential minutes to be played by Battle and Hughes, we need to get all we can out of them.

I can't disagree with any of that, could just be the best bad choice of a menu of bad choices. What's kind of gone under the radar is why Battle -- seemingly the prototypical Syracuse combo guard -- has such difficulty with the ball in his hands in the half-court offense. For a kid who does a lot of things very well, it's too bad that he can't give 10 half-decent minutes a game at the 1. The system needs its off guards to do that, and apparently he can't.
 
Oshae shoots 38% on 2’s
Trevor Cooney shot 41% on 2’s
...

Ouch.

Someone posted the Youtube link to a highlight reel of SU dunks from the '80s the other day. I remember thinking that Oshae's practices should consist of watching that on repeat for an hour before he's allowed to touch a basketball.
 
I can't disagree with any of that, could just be the best bad choice of a menu of bad choices. What's kind of gone under the radar is why Battle -- seemingly the prototypical Syracuse combo guard -- has such difficulty with the ball in his hands in the half-court offense. For a kid who does a lot of things very well, it's too bad that he can't give 10 half-decent minutes a game at the 1. The system needs its off guards to do that, and apparently he can't.

Battle is a great player, a hard worker, etc. He just isn't a natural ball handler, or a guy who is smooth with the ball in his hands.

He's rounded into form as an adequate [albeit methodical] dribbler who has a couple of moves in his bag of tricks that he has worked on and developed into go-to defaults. But those uconn / Oregon games highlighted how much he struggles to create separation when he's forced to over-handle the ball.
 
Battle is a great player, a hard worker, etc. He just isn't a natural ball handler, or a guy who is smooth with the ball in his hands.

He's rounded into form as an adequate [albeit methodical] dribbler who has a couple of moves in his bag of tricks that he has worked on and developed into go-to defaults. But those uconn / Oregon games highlighted how much he struggles to create separation when he's forced to over-handle the ball.

Yep. I love a lot of his game. I thought he'd develop that aspect, but it hasn't happened. In my opinion, this as much as anything has led to the five-year stretch of mediocrity at SU: Boeheim needs two guards who can play the point. And we haven't had that since Triche graduated. Lack of a combo guard has a ripple effect on the rest of the lineup and has people like Hughes playing roles that aren't a perfect fit.
 

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