Liverpool, Rodgers - Whiny Crybabies

[IthacaMatt]

The last time I checked, the object is to win the games. Rodgers' pompous take on Mourinho's tactics - "Anyone can defend with 10 in the box" - well, if it's so easy, perhaps he should try it sometime. How many times has Liverpool squandered leads because they couldn't close out a game after leading 2-0? Football is played at both ends of the park, and if it's so easy to defend, then why don't teams like Sunderland and Stoke have as few goals conceded as Chelsea this season?

Until Liverpool learns to play some defense, they will be the new Arsenal.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Pompous? Did you miss the entirety of his comments like the parts where he said congratulations to chelsea and where he pointed out that although Chelsea play a defensive brand it works well for them and hopefully it'll help prepare us for palace next week?

I thought both managers post game remarks were fine and Jose was especially classy with his remarks re: Gerrard.

Chelsea are a tough matchup for Liverpool as are all bigger, physical teams. Chelsea have incredibly skilled physical players which is the difference. Liverpool had 19 shots, 73% possession and 14 corners but zero goals to show for it so obviously Chelsea's tactics worked well and even their attacking players tracked back well to help defend. When Chelsea score first they generally win.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Pompous? Did you miss the entirety of his comments like the parts where he said congratulations to chelsea and where he pointed out that although Chelsea play a defensive brand it works well for them and hopefully it'll help prepare us for palace next week?

I thought both managers post game remarks were fine and Jose was especially classy with his remarks re: Gerrard.

Chelsea are a tough matchup for Liverpool as are all bigger, physical teams. Chelsea have incredibly skilled physical players which is the difference. Liverpool had 19 shots, 73% possession and 14 corners but zero goals to show for it so obviously Chelsea's tactics worked well and even their attacking players tracked back well to help defend. When Chelsea score first they generally win.

Well, I saw the interviews and tend to disagree. Lots of sour grapes from Rodgers:

Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers accused Mourinho of “parking two buses” in his post-match interview.

“Just putting 10 men right on your 18-yard box is not difficult to coach,” he said. “We were the team trying to win but we just couldn’t make the breakthrough.”

When you win the game, of course you will say that," Rodgers added. "But we were the better team with the ball. We just could not unlock them.

"It was difficult because they virtually played right from the off with a back six. They had a back four, with two wingers back and then the midfield three in front of them.

"Just putting 10 players right on your 18-yard box is not difficult to coach, but it is obviously much harder to try and break through it."

Rodgers, who worked as a youth and reserve-team coach under Mourinho during the Portuguese's first spell at Stamford Bridge, says he would never use such a negative approach himself.

He added: "Jose is happy to work that way and he will probably shove his CV in front of me and say it works, but it is not my way of working.

"I like to take the initiative in games, to try to dominate them and let my players express themselves.

"Chelsea have been wonderful and it could not have gone any better for them. Liverpool just have not been able to get through Chelsea at all - they were wonderfully disciplined, very organised, very good defensively."

"If a defensive style gets results, great. Jose has got his result here and he will be happy with that.

"But it is the polar opposite to how we work and hopefully over time our offensive mentality and aggression will get us long-term results."

Rodgers was also unhappy with Chelsea's time-wasting tactics that saw them dawdle over set-pieces and dead-balls, starting in the first minute when Mark Schwarzer stalled with a free-kick after Raheem Sterling fouled Ashley Cole inside the Chelsea area.

"I think everyone could see that from the first whistle it was clearly the plan to frustrate us," said Rodgers.

"We are a team that tried to win the game, in a sporting manner. We tried to initiate play with the ball but it was just not to be."

 

[ImperialOrange]

And you disagree with what part of that? The two coaches play different styles but they actually get along quite well. For everyone that likes to take shots at JM, Rodgers isn't one of them.

The time wasting was obvious from early on but the sweet irony of it, for a Chelsea fan, is Ba's goal was scored in first half stoppage added because of it. Chelsea aren't the first or last team that will do that but usually big clubs don't. However, he obviously knows his teams strentghs and weaknesses and that is reflected by their goals for as well as goals conceded. Perhaps he'll do it different next year with new pieces in the mix but if it works why change it? The only reason JM started getting stick about it was when he came out against West Ham for playing negative tactics.

 

[Bortukal]

Not to change topics, but Liverpool Would Have The Biggest Turnaround For A Champion In 29 Years.

Naturally I want Chelsea to take the crown, but I have no problem if it's Liverpool. I actually find them to be mostly a classy bunch and have tremendous respect for Rodgers. Felt a bit bad for Gerrard that the goal came at his expense.

 

[IthacaMatt]

And just for fun

 

[Bortukal]

Now THAT'S funny!

 

[ImperialOrange]

Will be interesting to see if city drop points. They are the most complete team, player wise, of the top 3 just inconsistant at times. They can attack like Liverpool and defend like Chelsea and yet sometimes they just neglect to do either. Hopefully they have one more slip up in them.

We've really missed Henderson these past two games and Palace will be difficult without him. If Liverpool and City drop another game Chelsea will find themselves the somewhat surprising champions.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Will be interesting to see if city drop points. They are the most complete team, player wise, of the top 3 just inconsistant at times. They can attack like Liverpool and defend like Chelsea and yet sometimes they just neglect to do either. Hopefully they have one more slip up in them.

We've really missed Henderson these past two games and Palace will be difficult without him. If Liverpool and City drop another game Chelsea will find themselves the somewhat surprising champions.

I'm pulling hard for Everton this weekend. It's a shame they don't have Champions League to play for anymore.

 

[CanadianSU]

Listen, Chelsea is boring af to watch. Nothing wrong with His comments though. Con Liverpool get yur crap together and take this.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Listen, Chelsea is boring af to watch. Nothing wrong with His comments though. Con Liverpool get yur crap together and take this.

I don't get this comment at all. Chelsea average 2 goals a game. They play counter-attacking football, like many other elite teams do - just look at Real Madrid or Bayern last year before Guardiola. Chelsea blitzed very good teams like Arsenal and Man City. Those games were anything but boring.

Boring is teams who can't string 3 passes together, like some of the mouth breathers at the bottom of the table. Watch West Ham v. Stoke, or Sunderland v. Crystal Palace. Then get back to me about "boring boring Chelsea". It's a lazy narrative for the newspapers to repeat.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I don't get this comment at all. Chelsea average 2 goals a game. They play counter-attacking football, like many other elite teams do - just look at Real Madrid or Bayern last year before Guardiola. Chelsea blitzed very good teams like Arsenal and Man City. Those games were anything but boring.

Boring is teams who can't string 3 passes together, like some of the mouth breathers at the bottom of the table. Watch West Ham v. Stoke, or Sunderland v. Crystal Palace. Then get back to me about "boring boring Chelsea". It's a lazy narrative for the newspapers to repeat.

The issue, IMHO, is that Chelsea possess the pieces for what could be a high flying attack yet don't play that style. Folks seem to have an expectation that, just because they could attack, that they should. Who's to argue with success though and would teams really prefer Chelsea beating them 5-1 vs 2-0?

The issue for Chelsea is that they allow teams to hang around and things can happen. Against Liverpool on the weekend they benefitted from a Steven Gerrard error but still required a big save from Schwarzer in stoppage time to keep things from leveling. Had they put a second goal in earlier their would've been little drama in it. Vs Sunderland the game prior, things obviously turned upside down in a hurry for them.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The issue, IMHO, is that Chelsea possess the pieces for what could be a high flying attack yet don't play that style. Folks seem to have an expectation that, just because they could attack, that they should. Who's to argue with success though and would teams really prefer Chelsea beating them 5-1 vs 2-0?

The issue for Chelsea is that they allow teams to hang around and things can happen. Against Liverpool on the weekend they benefitted from a Steven Gerrard error but still required a big save from Schwarzer in stoppage time to keep things from leveling. Had they put a second goal in earlier their would've been little drama in it. Vs Sunderland the game prior, things obviously turned upside down in a hurry for them.

Fair comments, and I agree. Chelsea has let many teams hang around this year, but I put that down to 2 things - 1. lack of a top class striker, and 2. some hang-over on the defensive side of the ball from previous managers - especially on the part of David Luiz, whose role in the team went from big contributor to bit part player.

For the record, Chelsea has put on some terrific offensive displays this season, even in the absence of a quality front man - 6-0 v. Arsenal, 4-0 v. Spurs, 4-1 v. Cardiff, 3-0 twice v. Schalke, 3-0 v. Stoke, 3-1 and 3-0 v. Southampton, 3-1 v. United, 3-0 v. Newcastle, 4-0 v. Steaua Bucharest, etc.

I expect that next season, Chelsea will likely lead the EPL in goal differential.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Fair comments, and I agree. Chelsea has let many teams hang around this year, but I put that down to 2 things - 1. lack of a top class striker, and 2. some hang-over on the defensive side of the ball from previous managers - especially on the part of David Luiz, whose role in the team went from big contributor to bit part player.

For the record, Chelsea has put on some terrific offensive displays this season, even in the absence of a quality front man - 6-0 v. Arsenal, 4-0 v. Spurs, 4-1 v. Cardiff, 3-0 twice v. Schalke, 3-0 v. Stoke, 3-1 and 3-0 v. Southampton, 3-1 v. United, 3-0 v. Newcastle, 4-0 v. Steaua Bucharest, etc.

I expect that next season, Chelsea will likely lead the EPL in goal differential.

No arguements from me especially being that you're the only team to pull the double vs Liverpool this year. I've also said, for months, that if Chelsea had kept Lukaku in house that they wouldve walked away with this years title. I was equally miffed at the fact that they didnt buy a striker in January.

As a Liverpool fan I would've loved to see CFC come out an attack us but it literally made 0 sense to do so given our strengths and weaknesses.

I think this years EPL is a bit of an anomoly and will look quite different after the Summer transfer window. You may very well lead the league in goal differential but I doubt it will be a walk. City aren't going anywhere and (I hope) Liverpool won't field a team that concedes the better part of 50 goals. If we strenghten the midfield AND sort our LB/RB situation we'll be a lot tougher to break down.

The same people that talked about JM playing his defensive style have also come out against Rodgers for playing such an attacking style and having no "plan B". Given our roster at the moment, what style/plan would thay've had him run? Henderson is a big piece in the middle missing for us and playing Sterling and Coutinho vs CFC wasn't by choice. With the arrival of new signings I expect we'll have some more ideas to offer next season. I do believe we would've shown better with Henderson in the lineup and Sturridge 100% but if we're playing that game what if Chelsea had Cech, Terry, Ramires, etc available as well?

 

[ImperialOrange]

Side note. The Chelsea team that had to score in the 2nd leg tie vs PSG was absolutely beautiful to watch.

 

[IthacaMatt]

No arguements from me especially being that you're the only team to pull the double vs Liverpool this year. I've also said, for months, that if Chelsea had kept Lukaku in house that they wouldve walked away with this years title. I was equally miffed at the fact that they didnt buy a striker in January.

As a Liverpool fan I would've loved to see CFC come out an attack us but it literally made 0 sense to do so given our strengths and weaknesses.

I think this years EPL is a bit of an anomoly and will look quite different after the Summer transfer window. You may very well lead the league in goal differential but I doubt it will be a walk. City aren't going anywhere and (I hope) Liverpool won't field a team that concedes the better part of 50 goals. If we strenghten the midfield AND sort our LB/RB situation we'll be a lot tougher to break down.

The same people that talked about JM playing his defensive style have also come out against Rodgers for playing such an attacking style and having no "plan B". Given our roster at the moment, what style/plan would thay've had him run? Henderson is a big piece in the middle missing for us and playing Sterling and Coutinho vs CFC wasn't by choice. With the arrival of new signings I expect we'll have some more ideas to offer next season. I do believe we would've shown better with Henderson in the lineup and Sturridge 100% but if we're playing that game what if Chelsea had Cech, Terry, Ramires, etc available as well?

Rodgers has talked about adding 7 players (!) this summer to strengthen the squad for Champions League play. It will be interesting to see who they can add. I agree that you have to do something about your defense and you need a midfield "destroyer" to break up counter attacks.

Mourinho thinks Lukaku is mentally soft and not that polished yet. I agree that he's a bull, but I'm not sure that he works hard enough at pressing the opposition and winning back the ball. Chelsea's summer dealings will be very interesting.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Rodgers has talked about adding 7 players (!) this summer to strengthen the squad for Champions League play. It will be interesting to see who they can add. I agree that you have to do something about your defense and you need a midfield "destroyer" to break up counter attacks.

Mourinho thinks Lukaku is mentally soft and not that polished yet. I agree that he's a bull, but I'm not sure that he works hard enough at pressing the opposition and winning back the ball. Chelsea's summer dealings will be very interesting.

We have quite a few guys out on loan that will help squad depth next year. Borini, Ibe, Wisdom, Suso, Assaidi, Llori, and Coates all could come back and feature in FA games and occassional PL run outs. I tend to think Borini, Asaidi, and/or Aspas will be sold as well as Coates. Sadly we do lack a midfield destroyer as Lucas just isn't it anymore. We'll need to improve there as well as ad some size in the middle of the park. Coutinho and Sterling are both good players but admittedly spritely in stature. When both play against bigger teams, like Chelsea, they can be over run. We need someone to spell Gerrard as well and eventually replace him.

Will be interesting to see who we get but we, along with 8 other teams, are heavily linked with Llalana. I'm a fan of Rakitic from Sevilla in the midfield as well but he may not have enough pace for the PL. Aside from that Cole and Sagna are both out of contract and free transfer would allow us to pay their higher wages as experienced cover. Either are more reliable options to GJ at this point. I also rate Rojo from Sporting as he can play LB or CB and we will add someone in the attack. Rumour is Marco Reus has a 28 mil buyout and IMHO would be worth every penny. Aside from that the Konoplyanka rumours will fire back up but I'm not sure he has the work rate/stamina to run in our system. He's massively talented but appears a bit doughy and disappears for spells.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Who, aside from Diego Costa, would you like to see added to CFC this summer? Also, you think Courtois will be coming back in to take the reigns from Cech?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Who, aside from Diego Costa, would you like to see added to CFC this summer? Also, you think Courtois will be coming back in to take the reigns from Cech?

I think Cech's shoulder injury may require surgery. If that's the case, Courtois will come back and start the season, and will probably have until October to make the job his own.

I like the idea of them adding a second top striker to pair with Costa (or alternate with him). Cavani has been talked about and would be welcome. Stylistically, he's more of a greyhound than Costa, who is more about power in the box. Having those kinds of options would be excellent. The other option could be Hulk, who they have been following for a few years now.

I believe they are going to sell Luiz and Lukaku to raise funds. I believe they will get 35M pounds for Luiz and 25M for Lukaku.

I think Mourinho is going to make a move for Rafael Varane from Real Madrid, along with maybe Sami Khedeira. I think they are going to look to Spain for a left back because Shaw has gotten too expensive relative to his quality. Let United overpay for him. They also need another creative player in midfield. They miss Mata's creativity, although Mourinho wouldn't have his lack of pace and lack of defending in the lineup.

I think the shocker could be Mourinho considering selling Hazard to PSG for something like 80-100M Euros. Hazard has been a bit of a mouth this year and his latest comments may not sit well with the coach. That would be a hell of a haul, and would allow them to pay for 2 or 3 new world class players.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I don't necessarily disagree with the names but i think some of your figures are skewed. I'd be amazed if you got 35 or 25 respectively for those guys. The market will be flooded this season and the big money teams won't be driving up prices unless you're selling to City or perhaps United but I'm not sold on the idea that they will have the funds they claim. Arsenal won't want Chelsea cast offs and wouldn't pay that anyway and Liverpool still won't be spending that type of money on more than perhaps 1 player. Why pay 25 mil for Lukaku when you can get like players for 5-10 less? Benteke, Remy, Rodriguez, etc

I really don't think you want Cavani. The sheen has worn off a bit and realistically he could end up as Torres part 2 for you. Costa would fit will do to his tough, gritty style and his ability to score ugly and create without much space. Rumors now swirling that Monaco play to outbid you, or at least drive the price up for him. Any other strikers you're interested in if he falls through? I was/am still a Jackson Martinez fan but he's getting on in years a bit.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Hazard leave but more to do with his apperent lack of interest in playing defense more than his propensity to vocalize as much. For all their offensive success I've also seen Suarez, Sterling, and Sturridge all track back and win balls in the box or even in our own corners. Love when strikers do that. Eto and Ba are both willing but not skilled enough in doing so and Torres has little interest in playing on that side of the field.

I have mixed feelings on Shaw. Yes he will be expensive BUT if he solves the LB problem for 10 years for a club would he not be worth it? I'm not sold that he is that guy yet though.

PS - I still want you to sell Bertrand to us.
PSS - Good luck with Victor Moses back at the Bridge next season. What a waste he's been for us.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't necessarily disagree with the names but i think some of your figures are skewed. I'd be amazed if you got 35 or 25 respectively for those guys. The market will be flooded this season and the big money teams won't be driving up prices unless you're selling to City or perhaps United but I'm not sold on the idea that they will have the funds they claim. Arsenal won't want Chelsea cast offs and wouldn't pay that anyway and Liverpool still won't be spending that type of money on more than perhaps 1 player. Why pay 25 mil for Lukaku when you can get like players for 5-10 less? Benteke, Remy, Rodriguez, etc

I really don't think you want Cavani. The sheen has worn off a bit and realistically he could end up as Torres part 2 for you. Costa would fit will do to his tough, gritty style and his ability to score ugly and create without much space. Rumors now swirling that Monaco play to outbid you, or at least drive the price up for him. Any other strikers you're interested in if he falls through? I was/am still a Jackson Martinez fan but he's getting on in years a bit.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Hazard leave but more to do with his apperent lack of interest in playing defense more than his propensity to vocalize as much. For all their offensive success I've also seen Suarez, Sterling, and Sturridge all track back and win balls in the box or even in our own corners. Love when strikers do that. Eto and Ba are both willing but not skilled enough in doing so and Torres has little interest in playing on that side of the field.

I have mixed feelings on Shaw. Yes he will be expensive BUT if he solves the LB problem for 10 years for a club would he not be worth it? I'm not sold that he is that guy yet though.

PS - I still want you to sell Bertrand to us.
PSS - Good luck with Victor Moses back at the Bridge next season. What a waste he's been for us.

Barca tries to buy people on the cheap, but they never do seem to add the players they are connected with. No way Luiz is going to be sold for the same 25M he was bought for. He's going to have a huge World Cup and his value will be very high. Plus you have Bayern and PSG also interested.

You may not agree that Lukaku will garner 25M, but I feel pretty confident of it. The kid is only 20 years old and has a world of possibilities ahead of him. He's not going to go anywhere on a loan next year. Either they will have him on the bench, or they will sell him at a handsome profit. They bought him for 17M, so 25M is hardly out of the realm of possibility.

Really disappointed that Moses never got much run with you guys. He scored 11 goals for us last year, I believe. Willian is a better version of what Moses offers, when you come down to it.

How much would you guys pay for Bertrand? If we could get 10M, that would be great.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Another thing. If Ricky Lambert was 27 instead of 32 teams would be fighting over who gets to pay 25+ mil for him.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Another thing. If Ricky Lambert was 27 instead of 32 teams would be fighting over who gets to pay 25+ mil for him.

You have to remember, the Premier League isn't the only place to buy and sell players. Lukaku likely won't wind up in England if he's not back with Chelsea. I could see him going to Dortmund, for instance, or doing great damage in Italy.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Barca tries to buy people on the cheap, but they never do seem to add the players they are connected with. No way Luiz is going to be sold for the same 25M he was bought for. He's going to have a huge World Cup and his value will be very high. Plus you have Bayern and PSG also interested.

You may not agree that Lukaku will garner 25M, but I feel pretty confident of it. The kid is only 20 years old and has a world of possibilities ahead of him. He's not going to go anywhere on a loan next year. Either they will have him on the bench, or they will sell him at a handsome profit. They bought him for 17M, so 25M is hardly out of the realm of possibility.

Really disappointed that Moses never got much run with you guys. He scored 11 goals for us last year, I believe. Willian is a better version of what Moses offers, when you come down to it.

How much would you guys pay for Bertrand? If we could get 10M, that would be great.

I get what was paid but of the 3 teams that drive up prices Chelsea are 1 of them with PSG and City being the other 2. If PSG and/or City aren't interested then I'm not sure where the money will come from. Real perhaps or Barca but Bayern don't generally spend huge vs picking off top players from other Bundesliga teams for seemingly bargain prices. United will be looking to spend as well but after dumping a ton of money to you for Mata, I'm not sure how much more they'd be looking for. They do need a player like Luiz rather badly though. I just see supply and demand a bit different this market.

Willian, whom we wanted badly, offers much more than Moses. Moses, in the run outs he got with us, was frusteratingly uninterested. If you were getting a 15 min cameo you should be running your face off. Everytime Moses was on the pitch he would be jogging everywhere! Amazing lack of intensity from that guy which is perhaps why you shipped him out and instead bought Willian and Salah (whom we also wanted).

Liverpool are still bargain bin hunting for the most part. I think we'd be looking maybe 6-8 range max vs 10 for Bertrand but suppose it will depend on what we get for whomever we sell. Pretty much we are rumoured to be working with 25-30 mil + whoever we sell.

 

[ImperialOrange]

You have to remember, the Premier League isn't the only place to buy and sell players. Lukaku likely won't wind up in England if he's not back with Chelsea. I could see him going to Dortmund, for instance, or doing great damage in Italy.

I'm aware but it's a unique financial landscape and quite a few teams are treading carefully with the FFP regulations. Dortmund are set to potentially be picked apart this summer vs spending big. Most Italian clubs aren't spending big at the moment. Both Milan teams have curbed their spending of late and Juve just spent 10 mil on Tevez. Can't imagine they'd pay 2.5 x that for Lukaku.

The cash rich clubs are Chelsea, City, PSG, Monaco, Barca, Real, Bayern, maybe United, or Spurs and ??? Bayern don't spend foolishly and you are one of the other clubs which means you would need at least 2 of City, PSG, Monaco, Barca, or Real to be interested to drive up prices. If they don't need/want the players you're selling you'll be stuck keeping their wages or selling at a lessor price. What teams, of similar stature, are going to pay big for players Chelsea find surplus?