Looks Like No Arena For Now

[GoSU96]

Read Miner's letter and you'll get a sense of what her concerns about the project are. There are always costs associated with something like this for the city. $200 million is not $500 million. Who pays the rest? The "private" owner/operator? How much realistically could you get from a naming sponsor? Who pays for infrastructure improvements that go along with a project of this size? She's right to be skeptical.

Do you think the City of Louisville is happy about the decision to float hundreds of millions in bonds for a building with only one tenant that doesn't come close to meeting the payments they have to make? If I were the Syracuse mayor, I'd want every penny accounted for before signing off on this project.

It's not the City of Syracuse floating the bonds. The City isn't being asked to drop a dime on the construction of the facility. What business is it of her's how the project if being paid for or what the ownership stake is.

I understand the infrastucture costs issue, but they are almost certaintly considered a cost of the project, but it not unreasonable to want that confirmed. If they are she should say great, where do I sign, and get out of the way.

 

[Millhouse]

That's an awful lot of state aid she's throwing away.

it's a lot of state aid she won't get for anything else

she's on her own for everything else. without the stadium, maybe she gets more aid for stuff she's going to have to do anyway.

personally i'm sick and tired of all this state aid, as if the aid comes from some other planet or something.

the more cuomo doles out to one, the more he has to dole out to all and everyone ends up paying more.

 

[SU2NASA]

If I were the Syracuse mayor, I'd want every penny accounted for before signing off on this project.

She should be doing backflips down Erie Boulevard over this idea.

 

[OburgOrange]

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/01/post_984.html

You have got to be kidding me. Someone has their nose out of joint. Whaaaaaaaa. Say goodbye to the state ever offering to get involved again. Ever. Someone else will get the money because the mayor's ego is in the way. Too bad

 

[supp]

It's not the City of Syracuse floating the bonds. The City isn't being asked to drop a dime on the construction of the facility. What business is it of her's how the project if being paid for or what the ownership stake is.

My parents as city residents and her constituents want to know how this is going to be financed. Because if the dollars aren't there, more likely than not it will be the city and city taxpayers (and probably suburban taxpayers too) who will wind up holding the bag. The State hasn't committed to anything. Mahoney made a request for as much as $200 million. How is the still undetermined balance of the bill going to be covered? What about the inevitable cost overruns? Kennedy Square is in the city. She is obligated to all the residents of the city to do right by them.

 

[Toga]

 

[xc84]

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/01/post_984.html

Well, that was fun.

 

[Chris02M]

it will get done sooner than later

 

[Millhouse]

My parents as city residents and her constituents want to know how this is going to be financed. Because if the dollars aren't there, more likely than not it will be the city and city taxpayers (and probably suburban taxpayers too) who will wind up holding the bag. The State hasn't committed to anything. Mahoney made a request for as much as $200 million. How is the still undetermined balance of the bill going to be covered? What about the inevitable cost overruns? Kennedy Square is in the city. She is obligated to all the residents of the city to do right by them.

Sounds to good to be true, don't ask any questions, sign right here right now or else I walk! This doesn't help their credibility in my eyes.

 

[Cusester]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Inner Harbor is actually the targeted destination and all of this foreplay is an attempt to negate criticism later for not putting it in the city?

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Inner Harbor is actually the targeted destination and all of this foreplay is an attempt to negate criticism later for not putting it in the city?

No.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Inner Harbor is actually the targeted destination and all of this foreplay is an attempt to negate criticism later for not putting it in the city?

Isn't the inner harbor in the city limits

 

[anomander]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Inner Harbor is actually the targeted destination and all of this foreplay is an attempt to negate criticism later for not putting it in the city?

i don't see it ever happening at the Inner Harbor. Aren't there already condo's that have gone up, and other stuff planned? The Kennedy spot would be the perfect place to connect the University-City-Inner Harbor

 

[GoSU96]

My parents as city residents and her constituents want to know how this is going to be financed. Because if the dollars aren't there, more likely than not it will be the city and city taxpayers who will wind up holding the bag. The State hasn't committed to anything. Mahoney made a request for as much as $200 million. How is the still undetermined balance of the bill going to be covered? What about the inevitable cost overruns? Kennedy Square is city property. She is obligated to all the residents of the city to do right by them.

Really, you think that if the City isn't part of the funding stream the state of New York and Onondaga County are going to leave the City holding the bag. Where in the world do you get more likely than not?

The city doesn't have any money. All the parties realize this. They didn't come to her and say we have 400 of 500, where's your 100?

If the city hasn't underwritten the bonds, city tax payers aren't at risk from that perspective.

And the vast majority of that property is not city owned, either by the City itself or the Syracuse Urban Renewal Agency. Almost all is owned either by Upstate directly or Upstate Prop Devel Inc, which is one of its charitable organization associated with Upstate. At the end of the day it's State land not City.

 

[GoSU96]

i don't see it ever happening at the Inner Harbor. Aren't there already condo's that have gone up, and other stuff planned? The Kennedy spot would be the perfect place to connect the University-City-Inner Harbor

The development is around the harbor area and on the west and south of there. Wouldn't crowd out a stadium at all based on the drawings I have seen. Would be complimentary with the new hotel and retail. There is plenty of room between Solar and 81 South of Bear St. Again a ton of open parking is in the area and room for more towards where the stadium would be. And there would still be room for additional hotels in the area as well.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Inner Harbor is actually the targeted destination and all of this foreplay is an attempt to negate criticism later for not putting it in the city?

The Inner Harbor is part of the city

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the Inner Harbor is actually the targeted destination and all of this foreplay is an attempt to negate criticism later for not putting it in the city?

Didn't somebody post that the Inner Harbor has a bad foundation that won't support the weight of a stadium?

 

[GoCuse08]

The development is around the harbor area and on the west and south of there. Wouldn't crowd out a stadium at all based on the drawings I have seen. Would be complimentary with the new hotel and retail. There is plenty of room between Solar and 81 South of Bear St. Again a ton of open parking is in the area and room for more towards where the stadium would be. And there would still be room for additional hotels in the area as well.

This would be awesome. If this does get done is there any chance it could end up at the inner harbor?

 

[anomander]

The development is around the harbor area and on the west and south of there. Wouldn't crowd out a stadium at all based on the drawings I have seen. Would be complimentary with the new hotel and retail. There is plenty of room between Solar and 81 South of Bear St. Again a ton of open parking is in the area and room for more towards where the stadium would be. And there would still be room for additional hotels in the area as well.

Doesn't Pyramid still own that land?

 

[oldpinepoint]

Doesn't Pyramid still own that land?

I thought the inner harbor group took it back, destiny did not want the lots south of Hiawatha and has fought SIDA on that.

 

[CUSU]

Didn't somebody post that the Inner Harbor has a bad foundation that won't support the weight of a stadium?

Somebody did mention that and I agree.

Working for a Civil Engineering firm in the Syracuse area over the summer a lot was mentioned about that area being unstable and very hard to build on. Costs would most likely be much more because of the need for additional amounts of engineering, a floating foundation I believe, if it is even possible for something of that mass.

 

[GoSU96]

Doesn't Pyramid still own that land?

They own the land about half way up Solar south of Bear. You put 50K stadium there, my guess is Bob would donate it/deed it for a $1 (whichever provides the most tax benefit). It would drive traffic to the mall and he would be able to get the rest of the property leased.

 

[GoSU96]

I thought the inner harbor group took it back, destiny did not want the lots south of Hiawatha and has fought SIDA on that.

As of the current tax records they own it.

 

[BlazeOrange]

The development is around the harbor area and on the west and south of there. Wouldn't crowd out a stadium at all based on the drawings I have seen. Would be complimentary with the new hotel and retail. There is plenty of room between Solar and 81 South of Bear St. Again a ton of open parking is in the area and room for more towards where the stadium would be. And there would still be room for additional hotels in the area as well.

Here's a drawing:

Could put the stadium right around where the legend is or to the east of Solar Street and utilize existing and new parking north of Bear Street. Could also build overlying Bear and/or Solar Streets, but might be able to just make crossing Bear Street more pedestian-friendly.

 

[GoSU96]

Somebody did mention that and I agree.

Working for a Civil Engineering firm in the Syracuse area over the summer a lot was mentioned about that area being unstable and very hard to build on. Costs would most likely be much more because of the need for additional amounts of engineering, a floating foundation I believe, if it is even possible for something of that mass.

But there is a lot that you wouldn't have to do on that site that you would elsewhere. If it's impossible or cost prohibitive that one thing, but just because it's difficult or more expensive there are a lot of benefits that you would have to weigh against it.