Losing Onuaku was much worse than losing Melo

[syr14]

look at what we had in 2010 vs. Butler
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300840183

It's a similar situation as far as 'big man depth'. I think Rak can give us more than Riley...We don't have Wes Johnson, but we have plenty of offensive talent.

We can make a run. Screw Fab, I am pumped for the games to start. LETS GO

 

[armory]

Did you watch the 3 games we played without him?

Did you watch the last 3 games we played with him?

Amazing how we say we have such amazing depth ... then panic that the sky is falling at the loss of one player.

 

[CorduroyG]

syr14 what game is your sig pic from? great picture. kris looks young. gtown 2010?

 

[syr14]

syr14 what game is your sig pic from? great picture. kris looks young. gtown 2010?

Gtown 2010. Kris made a driving layup for the go-ahead basket that gave us the win.

 

[orangepassion]

This is much worse b/c Rick Jackson isn't walking through those doors

 

[Garbs]

This is much worse b/c Rick Jackson isn't walking through those doors

good because he is the reason we lost to butler

 

[pearl31]

good because he is the reason we lost to butler

he was horrendous vs butler

 

[orangepassion]

good because he is the reason we lost to butler

Overall, he was a very good player for SU

 

[CorduroyG]

Overall, he was a very good player for SU

not in march. shat the bed against butler, shat the bed against marquette. rak cant do any worse than rick did in those games.

 

[suthrills]

Its not even close. Lose Fab is WAY bigger than losing AO. All you numbers folks and metrics folks need to actually watch the games. Fab is the single most indispensible player on this team (even more so than Dion). Rak and Baye just don't measure up on any level. This is a donught team now.

 

[AccuRater]

AO was huge on the offensive end, underated but not great on the defensive end. With Fab it's the opposite. The problem is that we had other options on offense, where as our other options on defense this year are Rak and Baye. They are not completely incapable but there's quite the gap.

The problem is fouls. Rak will pick up two in his first five minutes. Then it will be Baye at the 5.

 

[Ghost]

The problem is fouls. Rak will pick up two in his first five minutes. Then it will be Baye at the 5.

There isn't any real evidence to say that Rak is foul prone. He covered Gates and Drummond, two of the better big men in the BE, and I don't recall him needing to resort to fouling to cover either one. Granted it's a limited sample size, but he doesn't appear to be a foul machine of late.

 

[Marsh01]

People that say this loss was bigger than Arinze need their head examined. We played all year with Arinze and only post BET we had to play without him. WE have played 3 games without FAB and at least know what to expect. Arinze, while was not the pro prospect that Fab is, was a much more efficient offensive player and was a 5th year player and new defensively where to be and what to do.

I would bet my life that Butler would have been a double digit win with Arinze in the lineup.

 

[TinyManInside]

I think Fab is the bigger loss and I don't think it's even close. This SU has been pretty crummy offensively over the last 10 games or so. More than anything, they need a defensive presence at the back of the zone that allows their guards and wings to play aggressively. Fab is literally the cornerstone of this defense.

 

[Marsh01]

I think Fab is the bigger loss and I don't think it's even close. This SU has been pretty crummy offensively over the last 10 games or so. More than anything, they need a defensive presence at the back of the zone that allows their guards and wings to play aggressively. Fab is literally the cornerstone of this defense.

I dont know Mase - the timing of the loss was really more what my point was. We had basically zero time to know what the hell to expect. Roles that players played 35 games doing was not changed at the snap of a finger. At least with this team we have serviceable guys who can/have at least been pressed into game action.

When Arinze went out, Dash Riley was a joke. Moving ricky to the 5 was a complete disaster.

 

[Orangezoo]

i dont think the loss is as big.. fab has not been as good on d and going after blocks far too often leaving the offensive glass wide open. on offense fab has been offensive rebounds and easy finishes. his screens havent been as crisp and he has not been cutting to the basket as well. its no doubt a big loss but we need to see our offense wake back up if we are going to go anywhere beyond the s16.

 

[TinyManInside]

I dont know Mase - the timing of the loss was really more what my point was. We had basically zero time to know what the hell to expect. Roles that players played 35 games doing was not changed at the snap of a finger. At least with this team we have serviceable guys who can/have at least been pressed into game action.

When Arinze went out, Dash Riley was a joke. Moving ricky to the 5 was a complete disaster.

These are all good point, but the one thing that SU has done exceptionally well all season long is defend out of the zone. And the rock of this zone is Fab. I don't see the zone being as effective without him. It takes away our biggest strength on a team that has struggled to score in the 60-65 range for most of the last month. Our margin for error has gone down by quite a bit.

I do agree that Dash was horribly overmatched (dude averaged something like 3.5 ppg/3.2 rpg at Eastern Michigan this year).

 

[Marsh01]

These are all good point, but the one thing that SU has done exceptionally well all season long is defend out of the zone. And the rock of this zone is Fab. I don't see the zone being as effective without him. It takes away our biggest strength on a team that has struggled to score in the 60-65 range for most of the last month. Our margin for error has gone down by quite a bit.

I do agree that Dash was horribly overmatched (dude averaged something like 3.5 ppg/3.2 rpg at Eastern Michigan this year).

It won't be as effective unfortunately. We really need to alter the plan. If we simply insert rak or bmk into the 5 and try to play as if nothing has changed we are screwed.

 

[BuffOrange]

I guess I disagree with all of this. In an absolute sense, Fab is the bigger loss. Losing him just changes our team more than AO did (at least Rick could do some of the same stuff). I suppose it doesn't bother me quite as much because at no point did I ever think this year's team was better. The 2010 team at full strength had two post players (which is 2 more than this year), better shooters, and were only marginally worse on defense. I still think they would've won it all with AO. I frankly had my doubts that this was a championship team with Fab, though I realize the flawed champions we've seen the last 2 years may be evidence to the contrary.

 

[armory]

Its not even close. Lose Fab is WAY bigger than losing AO. All you numbers folks and metrics folks need to actually watch the games. Fab is the single most indispensible player on this team (even more so than Dion). Rak and Baye just don't measure up on any level. This is a donught team now.

I've seen every. single. game. for the last 30 years. Melo offers nothing that isn't replaced by a well-playing Xmas. Onuaku was irreplacable because he was the fall-back high% FG guy who could back down the low post and open up the opposing defense, Melo has absolutely zero low post game. In 2010 that dynamic was crucial because Scoop/Triche/KJ were our only hope for any penetration, meaning defenses could just cheat out to the arc when Onuaku was out. Melo may provide slight defensive presence, but since when has it been pts in the paint that caused our team to struggle? If anything, Melo's over-anxious attempts at blocks were the entire reason for our rebounding woes ... you can't rebound if you are landing out of position after a block attempt. On top of all of that, Onuaku could not be replaced by a backup center. Riley got a handful of minutes though totally unprepared, but primarily RJ had to take over center duties which was a domino effect throughout our defense. Xmas is a more than capable backup defensive center and BMK, while not having a great year, is still very experienced.

TBH, if ... IF ... Xmas steps up his game and plays at the level he has the last few games focusing entirely on defensive positioning and being an animal on the boards... I actually think we might be a better team.

 

[KingOtis]

It's all relative. K-State was going to be a tough game with Melo in the lineup. Now it's a horrible matchup for us.

They're going to get a ton of offensive boards. They're going to all but take away our transition game. And they're going to get Rak and BMK in foul trouble.

 

[KingOtis]

TBH, if ... IF ... Xmas steps up his game and plays at the level he has the last few games focusing entirely on defensive positioning and being an animal on the boards... I actually think we might be a better team.

Saturday's game will be early. Rak doesn't play well in games with early start times.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Offensively, losing AO was bigger. Defensively, losing Fab is bigger.
Can we win 6 games by outscoring teams?

I think this is the point. Gotta score points!

 

[mantonio]

I do think AO was a bigger loss, but I think the field was weaker back then at the top. I think the real challenge will start in the sweet 16, When teams have more talent, & bulk in the front court.

All in all, though, this team has a ton of talent that surpasses these other opponents, we should be able to get to the .. if the team hustles hard.

After that, it will depend on other factors, as well as hard work. But really, this would be true with Melo in the lineup anyway...

 

[kirbivore]

Difference between 2010 and 2012 was the overall talent in CBB was down in 2010 compared to this year. Without AO the Orange still had a 4 point lead on Butler with 3 mins. to go before three bad things happened: JB went into the stall, the no call on the Matt Howard suplex, the Butler inbounds steal where the refs missed the guy's foot on the line. Either of those goes the other way, SU survives. In the next round K-State had nothing left after their 2OT game according to coach Martin. Then they get a #5 seed Mich St. and a Duke team most would agree was not vintage that got a gift road to the final four. This year if SU can make the elite 8 and the chalk holds up they'll have to beat Sullinger, then Barnes, then Davis, which isn't likely.