Love the myths that have taken root here. | Syracusefan.com

Love the myths that have taken root here.

GoSU96

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A favorite right now is SU comes out conservative and only throws on third down early.

BS.

There have been 29 possessions this year that have started in the 1st Q.

On those possessions, SU has thrown on 1st down 32 times, run on 41. On second down SU has thrown 31 times, run 26.

Of those 29 possessions, 4 have been a three and out after running on 1st and 2nd down.

So can we cut the crap already.
 
I think part of the problem this week is that the first 5 plays from the LOS against USF were runs.

Good info to have.

For all the bs we throw around on the board, there is surprisingly little of this and what KO has posted today.
 
I don't know, without looking at the stats, it seems in the last few games SU has been trying to establish the run early. It doesn't help that the time of possession in the first quarter particularly has seemed to favor the opponent by a wide margin - ie, we don't seem to be running many plays.
 
A favorite right now is SU comes out conservative and only throws on third down early.

BS.

There have been 29 possessions this year that have started in the 1st Q.

On those possessions, SU has thrown on 1st down 32 times, run on 41. On second down SU has thrown 31 times, run 26.

Of those 29 possessions, 4 have been a three and out after running on 1st and 2nd down.

So can we cut the crap already.
not that i'm expecting a breakdown but i suspect run pass ratio changes as competition improves. i could be wrong. chip posted something about the first plays of bcs vs non bcs (or maybe it was fcs vs fbs... something like that)
 
A favorite right now is SU comes out conservative and only throws on third down early.

BS.

There have been 29 possessions this year that have started in the 1st Q.

On those possessions, SU has thrown on 1st down 32 times, run on 41. On second down SU has thrown 31 times, run 26.

Of those 29 possessions, 4 have been a three and out after running on 1st and 2nd down.

So can we cut the crap already.

We are conservative early. That is a fact. Passing does not mean aggressive. Haven't seen one person suggest we come out run urn pass. Why are you so sensitive? Our O sucks in the first Q. It needs to be fixed. If you don't think the sets we run and the play calling is different in the 1st Q, maybe you aren't watching the games like OttoinGrotto. Even the coaches have said that they want to run it early. So I guess that you are right and Marrone is wrong. Good to know.
 
I really don't care what the offense does as long as it is productive, moves the ball and scores points. My issue is that trying to be multiple with borderline talent keeps an offense from creating any identitiy and being really good at anything. Some of the best offenses are actually quite simple, sure they get shut down on from time to time but who doesn't.

I don't think we will ever have a good offense using an NFL scheme
 
I think part of the problem this week is that the first 5 plays from the LOS against USF were runs.

Good info to have.

For all the bs we throw around on the board, there is surprisingly little of this and what KO has posted today.

The first 7. And 13 of the first 18, with one sack and one completed pass in four. We got 43 yards in those 18 plays, punted three times and fell behind 0-10. Then we started passing and gained another 361 yards and scored 17 points with several drops in the end zone preventing at least two scores. No myth there.
 
Yeah, being conservative isn't necessarily about when and how often we run and pass. I know some people fall on that argument, so I understand the frustration, but it's best to seperate the two.
 
In 10 games we've handed off to Bailey to start 9 of them, the one pass was for 10 yards to Adam Harris vs RI.

In the last 3 games our opening sequences have been;

Lville Bailey run -2, Bailey run 1, SU penalty, pass for 8, punt
UConn Bailey run 4, Bailey run -1 and fumbles
USF Bailey run 8, Bailey run 1, Smith run no gain, punt

So yeah recently I'd say we've come out conservative. Add to that we rarely throw anything past the first down marker on 1st or 2nd down. We don't seem to run any 10-15 yard routes unless it's 3rd and long.
 
From the Box score on the SU Athletics Site, (Page 8-9)

South Florida wins the toss and elects to defer.

KLOSS, Marvin kickoff 70 yards to the SYR0, touchback.

1-10 SYR 20 BAILEY, Antwon rush up middle for 8 yards to the SYR28 (WASHINGTON, Q).

2-2 SYR 28 BAILEY, Antwon rush up middle for 1 yard to the SYR29 (MCCASKILL, Keit).

3-1 SYR 29 SMITH, Jerome rush up middle for no gain to the SYR29 (MCCASKILL, Keit).

4-1 SYR 29 FISHER, J. punt 11 yards to the SYR40, out-of-bounds.

3 plays, 9 yards, 1:44

SYRACUSE drive start at 09:59.

1-10 SYR 21 BAILEY, Antwon rush up middle for 4 yards to the SYR25 (GRISSOM, Cory).

2-6 SYR 25 BAILEY, Antwon rush up middle for 5 yards to the SYR30 (GRISSOM, Cory;LANARIS, Mike).

3-1 SYR 30 SMITH, Jerome rush up middle for 10 yards to the SYR40, 1ST DOWN SYR (LEJISTE, Jon). R1

1-10 SYR 40 SMITH, Jerome rush up middle for no gain to the SYR40 (LANARIS, Mike;BARRINGTON, Sam).

2-10 SYR 40 NASSIB, Ryan deep pass incomplete to CHEW, Van.

3-10 SYR 40 NASSIB, Ryan sacked for loss of 5 yards to the SYR35 (DAVIS, Claude).

4-15 SYR 35 FISHER, J. punt 39 yards to the USF26, fair catch by MARC, Victor.

6 plays, 14 yards, 2:59

SYRACUSE drive start at 04:16.

1-10 SYR 09 BAILEY, Antwon rush up middle for 4 yards to the SYR13 (WATSON, Elkino).

2-6 SYR 13 BAILEY, Antwon rush right for 1 yard to the SYR14 (LANARIS, Mike).

3-5 SYR 14 NASSIB, Ryan sideline pass complete to LEMON, Alec for 6 yards to the SYR20, 1ST DOWN SYR P2

(WASHINGTON, Q).

1-10 SYR 20 BAILEY, Antwon rush left for 4 yards to the SYR24 (BARRINGTON, Sam).

2-6 SYR 24 BAILEY, Antwon rush left for 7 yards to the SYR31, 1ST DOWN SYR (LEJISTE, Jon). R3

1-10 SYR 31 SMITH, Jerome rush up middle for loss of 2 yards to the SYR29 (LANARIS, Mike).

2-12 SYR 29 NASSIB, Ryan pass incomplete to BAILEY, Antwon.

3-12 SYR 29 Timeout USF, clock 00:35.

3-12 SYR 29 NASSIB, Ryan sideline pass incomplete to WEST, Jarrod.

4-12 SYR 29 FISHER, J. punt 47 yards to the USF24, MARC, Victor return 14 yards to the USF38 (HARRIS,

Adam).

8 plays, 20 yards, 3:57
 
A lot of those early possessions that ended with punts were due to dropped passes that would have picked up 1st downs. This is a whole team effort in futility, not necessarily play-calling. Fumbles during the 1st possession have been a little bit of an issue too.
 
Another stat that stood out -- and I admit I have no idea how scientific it is -- but they showed the breakdown of the first-half runs. I think it was 22 runs -- 1 outside the tackles to the right, 1 outside the tackles to the left. 20 between the tackles. That at least feels very conservative.

The other issue is how many plays it takes us to score. Is this talent, play calling or schemes? It's probably yes to all three. But I remember at one point on the two drives that ended with Inc. passes in the end zone, they flashed a stat that we had run 19 plays to gain 82 yards. That is an awful lot of execution for a relatively small amount of real estate. It also suggests that while we're moving the ball consistently we're not fooling anyone.
 
Another stat that stood out -- and I admit I have no idea how scientific it is -- but they showed the breakdown of the first-half runs. I think it was 22 runs -- 1 outside the tackles to the right, 1 outside the tackles to the left. 20 between the tackles.
I haven't been able to see all the games, so I need some help here. Have we run a toss sweep this year? At least one screen pass per game? When we run an end-around has it been set up by plays with lateral flow?
 
I haven't been able to see all the games, so I need some help here. Have we run a toss sweep this year? At least one screen pass per game? When we run an end-around has it been set up by plays with lateral flow?

I think we may have run a toss sweep against Louisville, but that's just my recollection.
 
I haven't been able to see all the games, so I need some help here. Have we run a toss sweep this year? At least one screen pass per game? When we run an end-around has it been set up by plays with lateral flow?

Wasn't Baileys 53 yarder vs Wake a toss sweep?
 
i bet those stats are skewed a bit toward earlier in the season. we seemed to come out throwing early against the better comp. and we went 5-2. the last 3 against weaker comp, it seems we have come out running and have gone 0-3.
 
I think part of the problem this week is that the first 5 plays from the LOS against USF were runs.

Good info to have.

For all the bs we throw around on the board, there is surprisingly little of this and what KO has posted today.

I think a major problem against USF was 9 drops by the wide receivers which includes 3 touchdown passes. There is nothing any coach can do if their receivers drop 9 passes in one game.
 
i bet those stats are skewed a bit toward earlier in the season. we seemed to come out throwing early against the better comp. and we went 5-2. the last 3 against weaker comp, it seems we have come out running and have gone 0-3.

I feel like this is true too
 
I think a major problem against USF was 9 drops by the wide receivers which includes 3 touchdown passes. There is nothing any coach can do if their receivers drop 9 passes in one game.

The problem I was referring to was people sounding off a lot lately about running the ball too much.
 
ring
The first 7. And 13 of the first 18, with one sack and one completed pass in four. We got 43 yards in those 18 plays, punted three times and fell behind 0-10. Then we started passing and gained another 361 yards and scored 17 points with several drops in the end zone preventing at least two scores. No myth there.

But I thought much of that yardage was gained during garbage time.
 
Thanks for proving the offense has underachieved outside of the first drive.
 
ring

But I thought much of that yardage was gained during garbage time.
i've been wondering how much to discount that. they went from 290 to 400 in the blink of an eye. my attitude is to give them full credit, i don't recall seeing backups in there, it's not like they tried to keep the offense in front of them on lemon's TD
 
i've been wondering how much to discount that. they went from 290 to 400 in the blink of an eye. my attitude is to give them full credit, i don't recall seeing backups in there, it's not like they tried to keep the offense in front of them on lemon's TD

At this point, I think most people are basically saying if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, well guess what? it's a duck. The rest is lipstick on a pig type stuff, spin by the Marrone;s luncheon Jergens crew. Dont need crazy stats or anything to know that this offense has basically blown for more than a decade. Move the ball, score points, win games. Quit thinking we are the 68 KC Chiefs or something, we play in a freaking dome, use it you clown.

Makes no sense, Marrone should consult with someone in the off season
 
At this point, I think most people are basically saying if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, well guess what it's a duck. Dont need crazy stats or anything to know that this offense has basically blown for more than a decade. Move the ball, score points, win games. Quit thinking we are the 68 KC Chiefs or something, we play in a freaking dome, use it you clow
the offensive identity is to be a smashmouth passing team that tries to confuse with different formations and player groupings. that's not exactly coherent but that's what it is. i base a lot of it on recruiting ameen moore. there are a million backs out there to go get, that's the one they picked. mobile qb is probably just an added bonus to them, if we get it, then great.
 
the offensive identity is to be a smashmouth passing team that tries to confuse with different formations and player groupings. that's not exactly coherent but that's what it is. i base a lot of it on recruiting ameen moore. there are a million backs out there to go get, that's the one they picked. mobile qb is probably just an added bonus to them, if we get it, then great.

once Moore gets in for more than one play where everybody and their brother knows where it's going I will reserve judgement.. I mean if the 11 guys know right where the play is going everytime you get into the game it is difficult to really do much. How about a play action pass when Moore gets into the game? Oh but Moore can't block yet, OK got it
 

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