Luncheon Feedback?

[javadoc]

I get it Tom, I do.

I just worry that the same people who were talking up the talent in this program in 2002 and 2005 and 2009, etc. are also doing it now.

I really hope you guys are right, I really do.

No need to talk up the talent. You can see it on the field. We're winning most of the battles but losing the war due to singular, influential mistakes. Some of those mistakes can be corrected, some probably can't. Nassib is what he is at this point. And Jerome watching that lateral against NW? I have never played organized football in my life but I knew what was going on. How are you going to get someone to develop that basic football sense if he doesn't have it yet?

 

[Scooch]

No need to talk up the talent. You can see it on the field. We're winning most of the battles but losing the war due to singular, influential mistakes. Some of those mistakes can be corrected, some probably can't. Nassib is what he is at this point. And Jerome watching that lateral against NW? I have never played organized football in my life but I knew what was going on. How are you going to get someone to develop that basic football sense if he doesn't have it yet?

There's turnovers and then there's mistakes. We get a lot of procedure penalties. We drop a lot of passes. We also have zero playmakers at the skill positions. Are those kind of kids in the program now? I sure hope so, but them I wonder why theyre not seeing the field at all.

I imagine you trade off "football sense" when you recruit raw athletes and miss out on almost every 4 and 5 star kid you shoot for.

 

[javadoc]

I imagine you trade off "football sense" when you recruit raw athletes and miss out on almost every 4 and 5 star kid you shoot for.

No doubt. And that's where we are right now.

 

[kingottoiii]

No need to talk up the talent. You can see it on the field.

How can we see it on the field? What have wee seen thus far from Marrone QBs, RBs, WRs, DEs, LBs, and STers that has people excited? At this point our "improved" talent is wishful thinking. We lack playmakers.

 

[Scooch]

How can we see it on the field? What have wee seen thus far from Marrone QBs, RBs, WRs, DEs, LBs, and STers that has people excited? At this point our "improved" talent is wishful thinking. We lack playmakers.

I was just looking up our stats from 2010 and it got me very discouraged. Our #2 and #3 receivers that year, in terms of yardage and TDs, are the two guys starting now. Obviously our starting QB that year is starting now too.

I just don't understand how we could be one of the "worst" programs in FBS and yet still have so many guys from that era getting meaningful time.

I think I'll agree that we have more depth, but we certainly don't have any more difference makers. I guess they're all stashed on the bench?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Basically, we need another team.

That cracked me up.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think I'll agree that we have more depth, but we certainly don't have any more difference makers. I guess they're all stashed on the bench?

I'm irrationally confident that Morris and MacFarlane are both excellent running backs, although if the rumor is true that the staff envisions Morris becoming Eddie George my mind is blown yet again.

Not sure about Broyld or Funderburk. I think Sugar Bear's a good one. Not sure what having a good TE really means in college foosball these days though.

QB, who the hell knows?

But, overall, yeah, I tend to think our best guys are on the bench.

 

[Scooch]

I'm irrationally confident that Morris and MacFarlane are both excellent running backs, although if the rumor is true that the staff envisions Morris becoming Eddie George my mind is blown yet again.

Not sure about Broyld or Funderburk. I think Sugar Bear's a good one. Not sure what having a good TE really means in college foosball these days though.

QB, who the hell knows?

But, overall, yeah, I tend to think our best guys are on the bench.

Let's hope. I've been reading glowing reports of the guys who aren't playing for 10 years.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Let's hope. I've been reading glowing reports of the guys who aren't playing for 10 years.

I hear that.

 

[qdawgg]

I'm irrationally confident that Morris and MacFarlane are both excellent running backs, although if the rumor is true that the staff envisions Morris becoming Eddie George my mind is blown yet again.

Not sure about Broyld or Funderburk. I think Sugar Bear's a good one. Not sure what having a good TE really means in college foosball these days though.

QB, who the hell knows?

But, overall, yeah, I tend to think our best guys are on the bench.

I know you know this already but until they play in a game, I too am sick of hearing (then thinking) we have some talent and then never seeing it show up on the field. Our best player that everyone is raving about is Sugar Bear, who knows if he gets game jitters and drops passes, or fumbles a lot, or can't block, or get open in press coverage, or figure out how to sit in a zone. Who the hell knows.

At this point I'm ready to concede we have almost no talent except for Broyld because otherwise we would see them on the field once in awhile. I realize we don't want to burn a redshirt but we've proven that that doesn't matter with Broyld and AAM last year. The other assumption I have to make is that the "talent" we have that will be playing next year is no better then the "talent" we've seen for the last 2 years. Otherwise again, we would be seeing them play. I'm mostly talking about the offense in this whole rant. I also realize Sugar Bear is injured right now - we might never see him on the field anyway.

 

[SmilinBob]

I see things with this team that I simply gave up on during the last years of P and the biggest part is speed. This program now has potential to win and I just never felt that then but I agree Marrone and staff have to improve certain aspects of their game and recruiting. I still get the feeling Marrone is still figuring out the coaching gig and my hope is that he figures it out before it's too late. Sometimes you get so involved in what you're doing you can't step back and really look at what's going on and how to adjust the things needed and too many coaches don't figure that out until they are fired/too late.

Question...of those that are being redshirted or have verballed...do we have speed/game changing speed there? I know Morris is suppose to be fast and so is that receiver Cornelius...correct?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I know you know this already but until they play in a game, I too am sick of hearing (then thinking) we have some talent and then never seeing it show up on the field. Our best player that everyone is raving about is Sugar Bear, who knows if he gets game jitters and drops passes, or fumbles a lot, or can't block, or get open in press coverage, or figure out how to sit in a zone. Who the hell knows.

At this point I'm ready to concede we have almost no talent except for Broyld because otherwise we would see them on the field once in awhile. I realize we don't want to burn a redshirt but we've proven that that doesn't matter with Broyld and AAM last year. The other assumption I have to make is that the "talent" we have that will be playing next year is no better then the "talent" we've seen for the last 2 years. Otherwise again, we would be seeing them play. I'm mostly talking about the offense in this whole rant. I also realize Sugar Bear is injured right now - we might never see him on the field anyway.

I'm with you. That's why I said I'm irrationally confident.

 

[GoSU96]

I was just looking up our stats from 2010 and it got me very discouraged. Our #2 and #3 receivers that year, in terms of yardage and TDs, are the two guys starting now. Obviously our starting QB that year is starting now too.

I just don't understand how we could be one of the "worst" programs in FBS and yet still have so many guys from that era getting meaningful time.

I think I'll agree that we have more depth, but we certainly don't have any more difference makers. I guess they're all stashed on the bench?

So many guys? There are two guys that start out of 22 and 2 second string players.

 

[GoSU96]

I see things with this team that I simply gave up on during the last years of P and the biggest part is speed. This program now has potential to win and I just never felt that then but I agree Marrone and staff have to improve certain aspects of their game and recruiting. I still get the feeling Marrone is still figuring out the coaching gig and my hope is that he figures it out before it's too late. Sometimes you get so involved in what you're doing you can't step back and really look at what's going on and how to adjust the things needed and too many coaches don't figure that out until they are fired/too late.

Question...of those that are being redshirted or have verballed...do we have speed/game changing speed there? I know Morris is suppose to be fast and so is that receiver Cornelius...correct?

Speed has improved significantly. Stature is a bigger problem. The team isn't nearly as smurfy, and certain units, for example the DT's, have changed a lot, but compared to Rutgers, holy cow.

The program has gone from small and slow, to not quite as small with decent speed.

 

[OrangeMojo]

How can we see it on the field? What have wee seen thus far from Marrone QBs, RBs, WRs, DEs, LBs, and STers that has people excited? At this point our "improved" talent is wishful thinking. We lack playmakers.

Tried to stay out of this argument, but this is nonsense. This team has been the better team in 5 out of 6 games this season, and yet they are a crappy 2-4. There has been plenty of talent on the roster with the only significant shortfall being against one of the top 3 recruiting programs in the country. They lost to NW b/c of crappy special teams (coaching), lost to Minn b/c of crappy play calling (coaching) and lost to Rutgers b/c of crappy special teams (coaching). It's not the talent - they aren't losing the games because of lack of talent.

 

[kingottoiii]

Tried to stay out of this argument, but this is nonsense. This team has been the better team in 5 out of 6 games this season, and yet they are a crappy 2-4. There has been plenty of talent on the roster with the only significant shortfall being against one of the top 3 recruiting programs in the country. They lost to NW b/c of crappy special teams (coaching), lost to Minn b/c of crappy play calling (coaching) and lost to Rutgers b/c of crappy special teams (coaching). It's not the talent - they aren't losing the games because of lack of talent.

Read what I wrote and comment on what I wrote. I did not comment on the team's overall talent. I never claimed we do not have the talent to beat the teams we have played. People are claiming that Marrone has brought in all these great recruits. My question is how do we know until they prove it on the field?

Could one of Loeb, Kinder, Hunt, Broyld, Allen, or Wilson turn out to be a good QB? Sure but we have not seen it on the field, have we? Could one of Morris, McFarlane, Edwards, or AAM turn out to be a good RB? Sure but we have not seen it on the field. Could several of Kobena, Cornelius, Lewis, Thompson, Parris, Funderburke, Foster, Hale, or Addazio turn out to be good pass catching options? Sure but we haven't seen it on the field. Could we have a good KR and PR guy on the roster or coming in? Sure but we haven't seen it on the field. Could some of Simmons, Vigille, Lynch, Manley, Washington, Johnson, Carter, Hodge make an impact at DE or LB? Sure but they haven't done it on the field yet.

At this point there is no way to tell if we have indeed improved in talent or if we are just talking up the players we have. I hope that is the case but like Scooch said we have heard this every year since the 90s.

 

[OttoMets]

Speed has improved significantly. Stature is a bigger problem. The team isn't nearly as smurfy, and certain units, for example the DT's, have changed a lot, but compared to Rutgers, holy cow.

The program has gone from small and slow, to not quite as small with decent speed.

Morris may be fast and may in fact be Eddie George, but he's positively smurfy (this is a fantastic word and I'm going to steal it). He's way smaller than whatever he's listed at. I'd guess 5'8", max.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Read what I wrote and comment on what I wrote. I did not comment on the team's overall talent. I never claimed we do not have the talent to beat the teams we have played. People are claiming that Marrone has brought in all these great recruits. My question is how do we know until they prove it on the field?

Could one of Loeb, Kinder, Hunt, Broyld, Allen, or Wilson turn out to be a good QB? Sure but we have not seen it on the field, have we? Could one of Morris, McFarlane, Edwards, or AAM turn out to be a good RB? Sure but we have not seen it on the field. Could several of Kobena, Cornelius, Lewis, Thompson, Parris, Funderburke, Foster, Hale, or Addazio turn out to be good pass catching options? Sure but we haven't seen it on the field. Could we have a good KR and PR guy on the roster or coming in? Sure but we haven't seen it on the field. Could some of Simmons, Vigille, Lynch, Manley, Washington, Johnson, Carter, Hodge make an impact at DE or LB? Sure but they haven't done it on the field yet.

At this point there is no way to tell if we have indeed improved in talent or if we are just talking up the players we have. I hope that is the case but like Scooch said we have heard this every year since the 90s.

yep - I completely misread what you were saying there - sorry about that. Just tired of so many on here blaming a lack of talent after each loss when SU has just completely outplayed the other team and yet given the game away on stupid (yet completely avoidable, non-talent related) mistakes and poor STs.

Only qualm with what you're saying above is with regards to the defensive guys. I love how the D is playing and with the exception of the whiffs at finding a true, high-end MLB I like the talent that has been brought in and how they're performing on the field - including the DEs and LBs (with the noted exception).

 

[Dcuse]

Again, we just need a QB well suited to the scheme we are running now to be a solid offense. We get that, we will be a consistent winning program. Even with no other talent upgrades. Even now, going into 2013, I see a WR (Funderburke), a TE (Thompson) and a RB (Morris) that have skills we just don't have on the team today. Depth will still be a problem though that is being addressed each year.

There are QBs that will be on the roster that can do things Nassib cannot do as well. We are in a far better position today that we were when Coach P was canned. Are things were they need to be? No. Am I satisified? No.

Do I think there is reason for hope? Do I think things will get better? Absolutely.

This is why your our guy Tommy. I think people think we should have all we need in the personnel area by this time. I get it-we're fans and we're impatient. But the truth is that that is stupid. Did we really think" Wow, we got Marrone so Cam Newton should follow!"Sales,Lemon and West are nice but lets be frank...they're not fast and they're not even remotely gamebreakers.Smith-I like him,Gulley-ehhh. We might have something here waiting in the wings.Nassib-see Gulley. I am at the point of praying that Allen, Broyld,Hunt or Wilson is finally the guy to get this thing really rolling.
Stay with Marrone-I don't care what the record ends up this year.

 

[All4SU]

Again, we just need a QB well suited to the scheme we are running now to be a solid offense. We get that, we will be a consistent winning program. Even with no other talent upgrades. Even now, going into 2013, I see a WR (Funderburke), a TE (Thompson) and a RB (Morris) that have skills we just don't have on the team today. Depth will still be a problem though that is being addressed each year.

There are QBs that will be on the roster that can do things Nassib cannot do as well. We are in a far better position today that we were when Coach P was canned. Are things were they need to be? No. Am I satisified? No.

Do I think there is reason for hope? Do I think things will get better? Absolutely.

Good posts, Tom. This is where I stand too.

 

[Pyle]

I see a WR (Funderburke), a TE (Thompson) and a RB (Morris) that have skills we just don't have on the team today.

Didn't we hear the same things last year about Sales, Wales, AAM and Smith going in this year? I know I remember alot of those posts. The guys coming in always look better, because we haven't seen them play. Personally I'm done trying to assess talent that we haven't seen yet. I don't follow recruiting for a reason, actually alot of them:

Tucker, Baskin, Legree, Catalina, Pierce, Cantey, ARob, Collier, Preaster, etc. I think you get the idea. These guys were the cream of each recruiting class and for any number of reasons never materialized on the field. Unless they are suited up and actually playing then what's the point? Just pipe dreams.

 

[sutomcat]

Didn't we hear the same things last year about Sales, Wales, AAM and Smith going in this year? I know I remember alot of those posts. The guys coming in always look better, because we haven't seen them play. Personally I'm done trying to assess talent that we haven't seen yet. I don't follow recruiting for a reason, actually alot of them:

Tucker, Baskin, Legree, Catalina, Pierce, Cantey, ARob, Collier, Preaster, etc. I think you get the idea. These guys were the cream of each recruiting class and for any number of reasons never materialized on the field. Unless they are suited up and actually playing then what's the point? Just pipe dreams.

I think you are mistaken. Most thought Sales would never play for Syracuse again last year. I have never seen a groundswell of users looking forward to the day Wales would get playing time, or Smith or AAM for that matter.

For the record, I have seen these three play and I say they can do things players currently on the roster cannot do. The players you mention are all good players but they don't have the talent or abilities of the guys I named.

Pointless to argue about this now. Let's discuss it around this time next year.

 

[billsin01]

we're only a decent qb, a couple more fast WRs, another athletic TE or two and another fast RB or two away from maybe being a top 25 offense?

Well, if I understand your position correctly, it's actually much simpler. In fact you're excited about 2013 if I remember correctly, simply because it won't be nassib at qb.

 

[billsin01]

Anyone? I know its supersecret, and we cant have our opponents knowing anything about our stealthy 2-4 team.

So, anyone care to "summarize" what was said?

I heard they are actually going to cancel these things -- too distracting for the kids and it's the reason we're 2-4.