Maliq Brown to Duke

[hoopsupstate]

Their five stars don’t come cheap. Flagg is well over seven figures.

 

[two3zone]

Vomit. The worst nightmare outcome. Only UConn or Gtown would be worse.

I think Duke is way way worse. We actually have to play them in our league.

 

[Willy75]

So as bad as some make it, getting a degree from Duke isn't exactly small potatoes. I have no idea if he thinks the NBA is in his future but if he is good with his role and think the fit is good, I mean walking with a degree from there is not shabby if we are being honest. Sure it sucks as a fan but it's the world of free agency now. He was not a head case or poor sport, wish the guy well and tell Freeman to posterize Duke next year for us.

What are the odds he ever gets a Duke degree? Low to very low.

 

[SWC75]

When Duke talks, players listen.

 

[MikeSU02]

I’m pretty sure that 99% of the people who had issues with his defense were referring to his work at the 5.

So if Duke wants to guard Lampkin with Brown, we should feed the post every possession.

But Duke won’t play him at the five, Nor did we want to. I think that was the whole point of the criticism.

The whole “Lampkin is a downgrade from Brown” argument just showed some lack of understanding on where the two should play.

I know I'll have minimal support for this, but he played at the 5 a ton and he was still a very good defender.

I don't know how else to say this because people just remember him against a few talented big guys, but not being able to not have help D (which every team can do except us) and the ball not being stopped at all before setting up for an easy entry pass, guys not fighting through screens, etc.

DBPM, he was fifth in the conference. His D win shares was 11th in the conference. 10th in the conference in defensive rating. He made all defense. There are verbatims from coaches for how good he was.

So, I will pick this fight. Ya, he should not have had to being play the five outside of certain matchups. But when you have the players you have and you are the team MVP, you do it, and you still do well.

If all you are citing is the times when he got run up by certain dominant big men, sure. It happens. Talent will win out.

But anyone isolating Maliq's play doesn't know how defense works. And he still had the metrics to show out.

You want your 16 PER big guy to go up against Maliq when he actually has guard and wings that can defend? You don't want that fight. But it won't matter, because he will playing where he should anyway.

 

[djcon57]

DBPM, he was fifth in the conference. His D win shares was 11th in the conference. 10th in the conference in defensive rating. He made all defense. There are verbatims from coaches for how good he was.

Additionally, if you look at just the conf games where I think he played center most of the time in. Best Defensive Win Shares on team and Best DRtg on team (other than if you count 3 games from McLeod and Benny).

So, again, the numbers don't add up to him not being effective. is he better at ? Absolutely.

 

[Red2003]

He’s not going to Duke. A former poster who runs a twitter account that likes to stir the pot saw some Duke fan tweet that he liked Maliq as a player and said twitter handle ran with it. Ridiculous and very 2024.

Just taking a vacation then? He’s gonna be down there 3 days.

 

[Red2003]

all I can think is that the asshats running Dukes program gave Scheyer a blank check and said get whoever you want. Actually he prob already had the blank check and they said well here’s a back up blank check. Elite 8’s aren’t good enough.

The question like others said is if the bags for the returning duke players splitting time with Brown will be doubled for them to stay too.

 

[SUFan44]

The real question is, would we have better off with:

C - Lampkin
PF - Brown
SF - Freeman

With Davis off the bench.

Or what we will have:

C - Lampkin
PF - Freeman
SF - Brown

With Davis off the bench.

First lineup doesn't offer much perimeter shooting. Also, Freeman doesn't necessarily have the perimeter skill necessary (right now) to play the 3. Ultimately, I think that's why Brown was the odd man out of the lineup.

Reality is, if Freeman - out best recruit in a LONG time - wasn't on board, Brown would have a starting role with Bell at the 3, and that'd be that.

 

[Nicknack]

I absolutely hate losing Maliq to the portal. That said, Red is at least assembling a team with players who play the position that they're best suited to play. Regardless what happens, I'm pleased at least to see this rather than the last several years with guys playing out of their natural position. I also wouldn't think that helps recruiting, when you have a 4 playing the 5 or a 1/2 playing the 3, etc. Guys want to be in a position to best showcase their talent and that doesn't happen when they're playing a role that doesn't best suit them.

 

[chuck]

I know I'll have minimal support for this, but he played at the 5 a ton and he was still a very good defender.

I don't know how else to say this because people just remember him against a few talented big guys, but not being able to not have help D (which every team can do except us) and the ball not being stopped at all before setting up for an easy entry pass, guys not fighting through screens, etc.

DBPM, he was fifth in the conference. His D win shares was 11th in the conference. 10th in the conference in defensive rating. He made all defense. There are verbatims from coaches for how good he was.

So, I will pick this fight. Ya, he should not have had to being play the five outside of certain matchups. But when you have the players you have and you are the team MVP, you do it, and you still do well.

If all you are citing is the times when he got run up by certain dominant big men, sure. It happens. Talent will win out.

But anyone isolating Maliq's play doesn't know how defense works. And he still had the metrics to show out.

You want your 16 PER big guy to go up against Maliq when he actually has guard and wings that can defend? You don't want that fight. But it won't matter, because he will playing where he should anyway.

Facts!!! He is the biggest loss out of all of the transfers!! Defense and hustle is hard to find nowadays compared to chucking up 3s and jumpers and playing matador defense.

 

[althea]

The real question is, would we have better off with:

C - Lampkin
PF - Brown
SF - Freeman

With Davis off the bench.

Or what we will have:

C - Lampkin
PF - Freeman
SF - Brown

With Davis off the bench.

First lineup doesn't offer much perimeter shooting. Also, Freeman doesn't necessarily have the perimeter skill necessary (right now) to play the 3. Ultimately, I think that's why Brown was the odd man out of the lineup.

Reality is, if Freeman - out best recruit in a LONG time - wasn't on board, Brown would have a starting role with Bell at the 3, and that'd be that.

What?

 

[Jake]

I know I'll have minimal support for this, but he played at the 5 a ton and he was still a very good defender.

I don't know how else to say this because people just remember him against a few talented big guys, but not being able to not have help D (which every team can do except us) and the ball not being stopped at all before setting up for an easy entry pass, guys not fighting through screens, etc.

DBPM, he was fifth in the conference. His D win shares was 11th in the conference. 10th in the conference in defensive rating. He made all defense. There are verbatims from coaches for how good he was.

So, I will pick this fight. Ya, he should not have had to being play the five outside of certain matchups. But when you have the players you have and you are the team MVP, you do it, and you still do well.

If all you are citing is the times when he got run up by certain dominant big men, sure. It happens. Talent will win out.

But anyone isolating Maliq's play doesn't know how defense works. And he still had the metrics to show out.

You want your 16 PER big guy to go up against Maliq when he actually has guard and wings that can defend? You don't want that fight. But it won't matter, because he will playing where he should anyway.

Well, I’m not sure what the fight is here. We all want the best team we can put in the floor right?

If anyone is suggesting that our ceiling is highest with Maliq at the 5 over a guy with Lampkins size then I’ll stop the conversation there because you’re nuts.

When the argument is “Brown is a sum positive over Lampkin”…I’m not sure I understand what their point is. Is that a suggestion that we should not be seeking a bigger, better 5 than Maliq? If it’s “I’d rather have a better option at the 5”…I can understand that. But you can’t go into battle against the best with Maliq at the 5.

A three player rotation of,
Lampkin/Freeman/Brown >>> Brown/Freeman/Davis

Maybe it’s me, but I don’t want the season to end because Armando Bacot goes 30/20 on us in the elite 8 because we don’t have anyone who can move him off his spot. This years team was Damone’s senior year all over again watching Kansas outrebound us by 30 in the tournament.

did you all watch the finals? Maliq brown has no place playing the 5 on an elite team. Either one of those centers was going to drop 40 on us

Red’s plan is to get bigger and more physical. Maliq was going to play mostly the 4, and very limited minutes at the 5. He’s transferring. If it’s Duke, guess what his roll will be? lol.

I’m not singling out Maliq at all, just pointing out a glaring weakness we had this year. Apparently the coaching staff saw the same weakness. I’m sure they have access to all the stats you do….and guess what…they went out and got a bigger center.

Guess why? Because all the metrics won’t stop Armando Bacot from planting his fat ass on the blocks and getting a critical basket or foul when his team needs it.

I love Maliq’s game. I wished he didn’t leave!. But he’s a defensive 4. That doesn’t change all the great things he did this year. No one is saying he’s a bad player, I’m not saying he’s a bad defender, but he was significantly better on the perimeter than the post.

 

[djcon57]

did you all watch the finals? Maliq brown has no place playing the 5 on an elite team. Either one of those centers was going to drop 40 on us

I did. I expect many teams to do to Lampkin and McLeod what UConn did to Edey. Make them cover space.

Should say I think McLeod was underrated as a defender this year. It was the O that was the problem.

 

[Jake]

The real question is, would we have better off with:

C - Lampkin
PF - Brown
SF - Freeman

With Davis off the bench.

Or what we will have:

C - Lampkin
PF - Freeman
SF - Brown

With Davis off the bench.

First lineup doesn't offer much perimeter shooting. Also, Freeman doesn't necessarily have the perimeter skill necessary (right now) to play the 3. Ultimately, I think that's why Brown was the odd man out of the lineup.

Reality is, if Freeman - out best recruit in a LONG time - wasn't on board, Brown would have a starting role with Bell at the 3, and that'd be that.

If Maliq is here, Davis isn’t coming.

 

[Jake]

I did. I expect many teams to do to Lampkin and McLeod what UConn did to Edey. Make them cover space.

Should say I think McLeod was underrated as a defender this year. It was the O that was the problem.

Yeah, what an awful result. Getting my center exposed on championship Monday.

The best 2 centers made it to the finals. Shockingly, neither was exposed before that. All someone had to do was expose them and make them cover space.

How stupid of me not to understand that.

 

[djcon57]

Yeah, what an awful result. Getting my center exposed on championship Monday.

The best 2 centers made it to the finals. Shockingly, neither was exposed before that. All someone had to do was expose them and make them cover space.

How stupid of me not to understand that.

You are being weirdly aggressive about this. I didn’t call you stupid. Nor say those centers were exposed.

I’m saying your post mentioned how you were scared of a Bacot type backing your C down. My point is there’s different ways to attack centers. That’s all. And pretty sure neither of our centers is a Zack Edey level defender

 

[billsin01]

Well, I’m not sure what the fight is here. We all want the best team we can put in the floor right?

If anyone is suggesting that our ceiling is highest with Maliq at the 5 over a guy with Lampkins size then I’ll stop the conversation there because you’re nuts.

When the argument is “Brown is a sum positive over Lampkin”…I’m not sure I understand what their point is. Is that a suggestion that we should not be seeking a bigger, better 5 than Maliq? If it’s “I’d rather have a better option at the 5”…I can understand that. But you can’t go into battle against the best with Maliq at the 5.

A three player rotation of,
Lampkin/Freeman/Brown >>> Brown/Freeman/Davis

Maybe it’s me, but I don’t want the season to end because Armando Bacot goes 30/20 on us in the elite 8 because we don’t have anyone who can move him off his spot. This years team was Damone’s senior year all over again watching Kansas outrebound us by 30 in the tournament.

did you all watch the finals? Maliq brown has no place playing the 5 on an elite team. Either one of those centers was going to drop 40 on us

Red’s plan is to get bigger and more physical. Maliq was going to play mostly the 4, and very limited minutes at the 5. He’s transferring. If it’s Duke, guess what his roll will be? lol.

I’m not singling out Maliq at all, just pointing out a glaring weakness we had this year. Apparently the coaching staff saw the same weakness. I’m sure they have access to all the stats you do….and guess what…they went out and got a bigger center.

Guess why? Because all the metrics won’t stop Armando Bacot from planting his fat ass on the blocks and getting a critical basket or foul when his team needs it.

I love Maliq’s game. I wished he didn’t leave!. But he’s a defensive 4. That doesn’t change all the great things he did this year. No one is saying he’s a bad player, I’m not saying he’s a bad defender, but he was significantly better on the perimeter than the post.

A lot of truth in here but I’m not sure I see this the same way. If you are intent on playing pressure man with little help (what we ventured to do) you’ll certainly create turnovers if you have good athletes (which we did do). However, very few players on an island with no help are going to shut down opponents. JJ struggled with this and Brown did too. A guy with some size and skill catching the ball deep with no threat of help will win a lot of those battles.

That’s not making excuses for Brown so much as saying Lampkin may fall victim to a similar fate (or serious foul trouble) if left in the same spot this year.

I would also argue that losing Brown is particularly damaging because he brought so much to the table — defense, switchability (not a word), offensive efficiency, passing, athleticism, rebounding … and he had room to improve. Q and Judah weren’t the same players but each brought a lot to the table (Judah took some off as well with attitude consistency issues).

What will be interesting to see is how the guys we bring in replace that AND build on it if we intend to make the tourney. All players have flaws and no one will be Melo 2.0. So that’s fine, but we’ve got a lot of one-dimensional guys at the moment. Bell the shooter, lampkin low-post scorer/rebounder, JJ kind of a shooter, I guess, decent ball-handler, McLeod with rim protection. Davis and Cuffe seem like depth pieces but I suppose we’ll see and Moore, westry and Freeman are all intriguing for one reason or another.

But this team would require a significant shift in offensive approach and probably defensive approach as well. Too early to say anything for sure but, it’s hard for me to feel like the collective loss of q/judah/brown is covered by what we have and the goal is to improve on year 1. So, we’ll see but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a bit concerned at the moment.

 

[Jake]

You are being weirdly aggressive about this. I didn’t call you stupid. Nor say those centers were exposed.

I’m saying your post mentioned how you were scared of a Bacot type backing your C down. My point is there’s different ways to attack centers. That’s all. And pretty sure neither of our centers is a Zack Edey level defender

Nope. But I’d like to try and get as close to Edey/Clingan as possible.

NIL is going to keep the Bacots of the world in college longer.

None of the above mentioned centers would have been in college this year pre - NIL. The game is going retro.

 

[Noexcuse]

Nope. But I’d like to try and get as close to Edey/Clingan as possible.

NIL is going to keep the Bacots of the world in college longer.

None of the above mentioned centers would have been in college this year pre - NIL. The game is going retro.

I think you make a good point. Players will definitely stay in college longer. It just won’t likely be the same college for the full 4 years.

 

[grepal]

Well, I’m not sure what the fight is here. We all want the best team we can put in the floor right?

If anyone is suggesting that our ceiling is highest with Maliq at the 5 over a guy with Lampkins size then I’ll stop the conversation there because you’re nuts.

When the argument is “Brown is a sum positive over Lampkin”…I’m not sure I understand what their point is. Is that a suggestion that we should not be seeking a bigger, better 5 than Maliq? If it’s “I’d rather have a better option at the 5”…I can understand that. But you can’t go into battle against the best with Maliq at the 5.

A three player rotation of,
Lampkin/Freeman/Brown >>> Brown/Freeman/Davis

Maybe it’s me, but I don’t want the season to end because Armando Bacot goes 30/20 on us in the elite 8 because we don’t have anyone who can move him off his spot. This years team was Damone’s senior year all over again watching Kansas outrebound us by 30 in the tournament.

did you all watch the finals? Maliq brown has no place playing the 5 on an elite team. Either one of those centers was going to drop 40 on us

Red’s plan is to get bigger and more physical. Maliq was going to play mostly the 4, and very limited minutes at the 5. He’s transferring. If it’s Duke, guess what his roll will be? lol.

I’m not singling out Maliq at all, just pointing out a glaring weakness we had this year. Apparently the coaching staff saw the same weakness. I’m sure they have access to all the stats you do….and guess what…they went out and got a bigger center.

Guess why? Because all the metrics won’t stop Armando Bacot from planting his fat ass on the blocks and getting a critical basket or foul when his team needs it.

I love Maliq’s game. I wished he didn’t leave!. But he’s a defensive 4. That doesn’t change all the great things he did this year. No one is saying he’s a bad player, I’m not saying he’s a bad defender, but he was significantly better on the perimeter than the post.

Are there any centers who will play next year as good as Clingan and Edey were? I don't think the big leaving AZ is as good as they were. A bunch of excellent college won't be back next year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

 

[SUFan44]

What?

What what?

Freeman being on the team made it nearly impossible to promise Maliq Brown the starting 4 position. Which is where he would be best served.

Brown is not a 5 on legitimate teams - which is obvious to anyone watching. Therefore, with Freeman in play and Lampkin on board, Brown's role was either super sub at the 4 and occasional 5 spot, or to look elsewhere.

I'm not sure what about my post is so difficult to understand.

 

[Cheriehoop]

What what?

Freeman being on the team made it nearly impossible to promise Maliq Brown the starting 4 position. Which is where he would be best served.

Brown is not a 5 on legitimate teams - which is obvious to anyone watching. Therefore, with Freeman in play and Lampkin on board, Brown's role was either super sub at the 4 and occasional 5 spot, or to look elsewhere.

I'm not sure what about my post is so difficult to understand.

I agree. I will really miss MaliQ but Freeman was going to start, Lampkin or a healed McLeod were going to get the majority of the minutes at the 5. Unless Freeman moved to SF and Bell went to the bench, would Maliq ever start. Maliq’s role would be a versatile valuable super sub as you stated.

I am surprised though that Brown would accept even a lesser role than he had or would have had here, at Duke. He had a great game against Duke and totally outplayed Filipowski in our game against them. (26 points, 11-16 from the field, 7 rebounds) it obviously impressed them. Even the Duke board can’t imagine why he’d opt for them even if Stewart leaves Duke, because he’d never get near the minutes that he got at SU but they’d love him as an emergency bench option.

Wish he’d stay here but wishing him the best and sad that he won’t be at SU anymore. Hope he finds a good match in the portal otherwise.

 

[Digger]

What what?

Freeman being on the team made it nearly impossible to promise Maliq Brown the starting 4 position. Which is where he would be best served.

Brown is not a 5 on legitimate teams - which is obvious to anyone watching. Therefore, with Freeman in play and Lampkin on board, Brown's role was either super sub at the 4 and occasional 5 spot, or to look elsewhere.

I'm not sure what about my post is so difficult to understand.

I’d reread your initial post. It’s confusing. I’m very sure I know what you meant but there are some incorrect names in spots and that muddies everything up.