Man, Bill Simmons really does not like Syracuse players

[Czar]

He's trashed Melo, Waiters, Flynn, and Johnson over his past few draft diaries.

 

[Czar]

Probably would trashed Kris Joseph too, but he hasn't written anything about that.

 

[OrangeChris]

Well, he also loved Adam Morrison in the draft several years ago, so take it with a grain of salt. I generally enjoy his work when he's writing "as a fan" (which I think is his strength), but I've never been able to take him seriously as a real analyst. He was also a Clippers season ticket holder before Griffin & Paul, so he's probably suffered enough without me trashing him.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I hope he gets to choke on his words.

 

[orange03]

Nothing to do with his latest article, but I've found him to be more annoying than entertaining as of late. He comes off more of a dork than he does a serious sports reporter/journalist. His schtick worked in the beginning, not so much now.

 

[Melancer46]

Do you really blame him after the way Flynn and Wes turned out? And Flynn and Waiters ascent up the draft was almost identical, except Waiters only worked out for like one team.

 

[RichmondCuse]

I am a big Simmons fan, but the one thing you have to remember is he is strictly an NBA fan and hardly watched ANY college hoops. He watches only March Madness, never the regular season. He knows almost nothing about any of these players other than what their numbers say and what a couple of real analysts tell him. So really take everything he says with a grain of salt. He does know his stuff when starts talking about current NBA players who've been in the league a while, but he knows nothing about how these prospects will actually pan out. That being said, I do think his attitude towards the Melo pick is probably representative of how most Celtics fans feel this morning.

 

[44cuse]

Do you really blame him after the way Flynn and Wes turned out? And Flynn and Waiters ascent up the draft was almost identical, except Waiters only worked out for like one team.

Stop making sense.

44cuse

 

[Knicks411]

I am a big Simmons fan, but the one thing you have to remember is he is strictly an NBA fan and hardly watched ANY college hoops. He watches only March Madness, never the regular season. He knows almost nothing about any of these players other than what their numbers say and what a couple of real analysts tell him. So really take everything he says with a grain of salt. He does know his stuff when starts talking about current NBA players who've been in the league a while, but he knows nothing about how these prospects will actually pan out. That being said, I do think his attitude towards the Melo pick is probably representative of how most Celtics fans feel this morning.

Also keep in mind that a lot of people on this board don't watch much of the NBA.

His point about Dion being the 6th man was a pretty bad one. He played plenty of minutes.

but he knows nothing about how these prospects will actually pan out.

Which puts him in the same boat as everyone else.

 

[OttoMets]

Well, he also loved Adam Morrison in the draft several years ago, so take it with a grain of salt. I generally enjoy his work when he's writing "as a fan" (which I think is his strength), but I've never been able to take him seriously as a real analyst. He was also a Clippers season ticket holder before Griffin & Paul, so he's probably suffered enough without me trashing me.

Good call.I think he's slipped in all areas in the past few years (tired of his name-dropping and inane "rules" and "pantheons" and such), but his analysis is often pretty poor.

Some of his criticism of SU players might be founded (what's a non-Syracuse person supposed to say about Wes? great pick and future star?), but I think he might carry a bit of a bias, too. Seem to recall some bitterness from him about Sherm always being good enough to get Boston into the playoffs but bad enough to get them bounced early. I think Simmons still carries that disappointment into his critiques.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Sucks hes been right so far, but im extremely confident waiters will be a very solid pro

 

[br801]

I generally find reading Simmons to be exhausting. The guy needs a good editor.

 

[Melancer46]

For the record, I don't think Waiters will be a bust, but I don't think he's going to end up being a top 5 player from this draft. I think he's very likely to end up being like Rodney Stuckey, and I think he's best suited in a sixth man role because he has that alpha dog personality where he'll be able to come off the bench take over games while the top couple of options on the team are on the bench. I think he perceives himself to be better than he actually is. Same goes for Austin Rivers.

 

[jekelish]

He actually didn't really trash Flynn or Wes when they were actually drafted. He said he liked both players, but Flynn didn't make sense since they had drafted Rubio also (and he was right), and he also said he liked Wes but didn't think he would ever be an All-Star caliber player (again, he was right).

I'll give you Waiters, but even I was a little stunned he went that high, and for anyone who didn't watch us this year, chances are they only know him as a 6th man and possibly only saw him against OSU in the tourney, when he played poorly.

 

[Noexcuse]

Isn't Simmons a big Red Sox fan? Yeah, I thought so. I never read anything he writes.

 

[Ghost]

When he did his mock with Ford he seemed okay with Dion. Said something to the effect of he's drafting this high he wants the player to have at least one ELITE level ability and Dion has that w/ getting to the rim, Beal with shooting, etc...

 

[moqui]

I've never been a Simmons fan, I don't like his self-referential and self-satisfied writing style, but I have to grudgingly admit that he knows the NBA. I have also noticed through the years that he seems to be more familiar with SU basketball than most non-SU fans, and he is often quite complimentary to the program and to its players on the college level.

That said, I also think he is correct about Dion & Fab in this draft - I think they each went about 10 picks too high - of course, I hope we are both wrong about them, too.

 

[RF2044]

I've never been a Simmons fan, I don't like his self-referential and self-satisfied writing style, but I have to grudgingly admit that he knows the NBA. I have also noticed through the years that he seems to be more familiar with SU basketball than most non-SU fans, and he is often quite complimentary to the program and to its players on the college level.

That said, I also think he is correct about Dion & Fab in this draft - I think they each went about 10 picks too high - of course, I hope we are both wrong about them, too.

I think that Dion--while he clearly has some development work to do [and who knows--he may have already shown improvement in some areas, like shooting, as a function of his hard work leading up to the draft] to round out his game, I think that his skill set is quite well suited for the NBA game. I have a feeling that Dion is going to be just fine, and prove to be a good player at the NBA level.

Fab--I view him as a developmental pick who went right about where you'd expect. People [especially C fans, like myself] who are expecting him to come in and make an impact or challenge for a starting spot right away are probably going to be disappointed. But I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up developing into a starter in 2-3 years. I also wouldn't be surprised if he ends up panning out like a bunch of recent first round centers who get drafted on projecting, like Saer Sene or Robert Swift, who don't pan out at all.

 

[djcon57]

Just one Simmons and general NBA commentator/ NBA only fan point point that's bothered me about Dion.

I'm not saying he's going to be good..he could even be a bust (I don't think so..but again, not the point)...

but to say, "OMG HE WAS A 6th MAN on Syracuse" is so ill-informed that immediately it shows you never saw Syracuse play last year.

 

[jimsonjunction]

I just keep thinking back to 2009 when James Harden got picked 3rd overall. I believe I said it was a reach and he's not that good. He proved me wrong. So I'm going to choose to think that Waiters will succeed... It's just unfortunate that the Cavs suck.

 

[moqui]

I think that Dion--while he clearly has some development work to do [and who knows--he may have already shown improvement in some areas, like shooting, as a function of his hard work leading up to the draft] to round out his game, I think that his skill set is quite well suited for the NBA game. I have a feeling that Dion is going to be just fine, and prove to be a good player at the NBA level.

Fab--I view him as a developmental pick who went right about where you'd expect. People [especially C fans, like myself] who are expecting him to come in and make an impact or challenge for a starting spot right away are probably going to be disappointed. But I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up developing into a starter in 2-3 years. I also wouldn't be surprised if he ends up panning out like a bunch of recent first round centers who get drafted on projecting, like Saer Sene or Robert Swift, who don't pan out at all.

we agree that Fab is a developmental project - and I don't think you should pick a developmental project in the first round, where you are committed to paying him for 3 years. As a GM, I would only take a guy like that in the 2nd round or as a UFA, or else pick him up in 3-4 years when his initial deal expires and someone else has already eaten the developmental costs

my take on Dion has been consistent - I think he would have been better off going lower in the draft and being taken as a rotation player for a good team with veteran leadership. In Cleveland as a 4 pick, he is going to be expected to be a star and is going to have his rookie numbers compared to his backcourt mate and last year's ROY. That team probably is going to lose ~50 games and it is going to be a long, difficult winter

 

[DoctorBombay]

Two things:
(1) It's an inexact science...obviously.
(2) Who's Bill Simmons?

 

[RF2044]

we agree that Fab is a developmental project - and I don't think you should pick a developmental project in the first round, where you are committed to paying him for 3 years. As a GM, I would only take a guy like that in the 2nd round or as a UFA, or else pick him up in 3-4 years when his initial deal expires and someone else has already eaten the developmental costs

my take on Dion has been consistent - I think he would have been better off going lower in the draft and being taken as a rotation player for a good team with veteran leadership. In Cleveland as a 4 pick, he is going to be expected to be a star and is going to have his rookie numbers compared to his backcourt mate and last year's ROY. That team probably is going to lose ~50 games and it is going to be a long, difficult winter

Well, that's not how NBA teams draft, though [re: Fab]. Big guys with potential get taken all the time as developmental projects in the first round. Sometimes, guys like that even go in the lottery [Drummond this year, Desagana Diop, Yinka Dare, and on and on]. Ezeli and Plumlee are two other developmental centers who went in the first round this year after Fab got picked. :noidea:

Fab has a lot going for him. He's big, he showed that he's got above average mobility after he got in shape, and he appears to have good shot blocking instincts.

He also has a lot of question marks. No discernible low post game, pedestrian rebounding, questionable basketball IQ, transitioning from zone to man-2-man, etc.

Fab needs to demonstrate that the work ethic that served him so well getting into shape before last season is something that continues at the next level. Honestly, I could see it going either way. But I think he got drafted about where most people projected his "value."

 

[moqui]

Well, that's not how NBA teams draft, though [re: Fab]. Big guys with potential get taken all the time as developmental projects in the first round.

yes, I know it is. and I think it is a mistake. the Association over-values size and spends too much guaranteed money trying to develop it . . . if I was a GM (and I know there are many reasons why nobody will ever offer me a job), I would never give a developmental guy guaranteed money.

 

[RF2044]

yes, I know it is. and I think it is a mistake. the Association over-values size and spends too much guaranteed money trying to develop it . . . if I was a GM (and I know there are many reasons why nobody will ever offer me a job), I would never give a developmental guy guaranteed money.

There's definitely some logic to that thought process. You pay guaranteed money for 3-4 years while a guy sits on your bench developing and not contributing much, and then right when he begins to figure things out, he's a FA who jumps ship and ends up being a contributor for some other team.