Mark Cuban says 'horrible' state of college basketball hurting NBA

[Lawrinson14]

Where'd you get this pic of the college ref looking the other way during a crucial moment in the game?

 

[sufandu]

not snark. do you watch the nba. because i have a hard time understanding anyone who thinks the nba is in a horrible state

I think what he means is that the NBA takes the guys that can make the college game good after only a year. Imagine if Okafor, Anthony Davis, Carmelo, Julius Randle, Jabari Parker, etc, etc, etc.had been in college for 3-4 years. The college game would've looked much better the last decade or so. It wouldn't even have to be the elite of the elite either. Imagine if the good players that have only been okay in the NBA stuck around like the Donte Greenes and the Jeremi Grants (I know there are ton that fall in this category from other schools too). I can't blame a guy for wanting to get paid, but I can blame the guy doing the paying when he complains about players not being ready. DON'T DRAFT THEM THEN!!!

Having said all of that, officiating has to change. It's horrible.

 

[Knicks411]

I think what he means is that the NBA takes the guys that can make the college game good after only a year. Imagine if Okafor, Anthony Davis, Carmelo, Julius Randle, Jabari Parker, etc, etc, etc.had been in college for 3-4 years..

I was randomly thinking about this last night, this would have benefited the college game but I think it would have hurt the NBA game. For the elite level guys, I am of the opinion the sooner they make the NBA, the better. Anthony Davis for instance would have been a senior this year; instead he's in the NBA having one of the best statistical seasons of all time. I think his game might have stagnated a bit if he spent the last few years in college instead of competing at the higher level.

Keep in mind I'm talking the elite level guys here.

 

[Lawrinson14]

I was randomly thinking about this last night, this would have benefited the college game but I think it would have hurt the NBA game. For the elite level guys, I am of the opinion the sooner they make the NBA, the better. Anthony Davis for instance would have been a senior this year; instead he's in the NBA having one of the best statistical seasons of all time. I think his game might have stagnated a bit if he spent the last few years in college instead of competing at the higher level.

Keep in mind I'm talking the elite level guys here.

The elite have no business in the college game. Let them go straight to the NBA or the D league.

It's kind of ironic considering Syracuse really started this trend with Carmelo.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Certainly the officiating in college games is bad and I have commented on that before. But college basketball is not dying and it is not unwatchable. The NCAAT was terrific this year with a lot of great games. TV ratings are strong. This year was the best in years. It's true that the overall quality of play is down from 15-20 years ago. But the biggest reason for that is the NBA and it's idiotic policy of pulling all the young talent out after 1 year of college, especially players that are by no means ready to play in the league and would benefit greatly from developing their skills further. The NBA is the biggest driver of the college game's problems. I don't expect anyone in the NBA to say it though.

College can still be great even if the NBA is pulling talent out early. The biggest issue I think are the rules they have aren't conducive to watching good basketball, and the officials can't even enforce the rules they have. That's why when people say to change this rule or that rule, I still think they aren't looking at the overall picture of the fact that Officiating at the college level is completely incompetent. Rules are enforced differently at the conference level, and thats not the way it should be. Officiating should be consistent across the entire sport. I don't want to watch anymore close games where the officials had a direct impact on the outcome.

The NBA had terrible officiating in post Jordan era, but that's been cleaned up the past few years to the point where they now release officiating reports on all close games. The NBA continues to improve by providing greater transparency, where college continues to believe the status quo is good enough.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2015/02/27/nba-to-release-officiating-reports-from-close-games/

 

[longislandcuse]

I was randomly thinking about this last night, this would have benefited the college game but I think it would have hurt the NBA game. For the elite level guys, I am of the opinion the sooner they make the NBA, the better. Anthony Davis for instance would have been a senior this year; instead he's in the NBA having one of the best statistical seasons of all time. I think his game might have stagnated a bit if he spent the last few years in college instead of competing at the higher level.

Keep in mind I'm talking the elite level guys here.

On other hand, Anthony Davis would be an absolute freak household name going into the draft will a ton of buzz over who will get him. I think his brand would be higher in that scenario than it is right now, granted some of that comes from playing in a smaller market.

 

[Knicks411]

On other hand, Anthony Davis would be an absolute freak household name going into the draft will a ton of buzz over who will get him. I think his brand would be higher in that scenario than it is right now, granted some of that comes from playing in a smaller market.

I get that, but I just think it would (probably slightly) hurt his development as a player.

But yeah, teams would be tanking so hard to get Davis. (And our team would be the favorite to get him!!)

 

[sufandu]

I was randomly thinking about this last night, this would have benefited the college game but I think it would have hurt the NBA game. For the elite level guys, I am of the opinion the sooner they make the NBA, the better. Anthony Davis for instance would have been a senior this year; instead he's in the NBA having one of the best statistical seasons of all time. I think his game might have stagnated a bit if he spent the last few years in college instead of competing at the higher level.

Keep in mind I'm talking the elite level guys here.

I'm of the opinion that the the NBA benefits far less from elite jumping early than the college game is hurt by the next tier down jumping early.

I don't think Davis's game would've stagnated. In an environment where he wouldn't leave after one year, he'd have other elites to play against. It didn't cause the elite college players of the 80's and early 90's to stagnate. Many of them came out of college and dominated their rookie year. Ewing scored 20 ppg, David Robinson 24 ppg, Hakeem Olajuwon 20 ppg, Alonzo Mourning 21 ppg, Shaq 23 ppg. The idea that a guy can't develop in college is overblown in my opinion.

I think, and I have no stats to back this up, that sometimes you get really good talents that get to the league quickly and think they've "made it" and rest on the laurels more than they would in college where they're still hungry and not yet a bigger celebrity than their coach.

 

[Millhouse]

I was randomly thinking about this last night, this would have benefited the college game but I think it would have hurt the NBA game. For the elite level guys, I am of the opinion the sooner they make the NBA, the better. Anthony Davis for instance would have been a senior this year; instead he's in the NBA having one of the best statistical seasons of all time. I think his game might have stagnated a bit if he spent the last few years in college instead of competing at the higher level.

Keep in mind I'm talking the elite level guys here.

good point! I think so too. why risk him taking over the offense when you have plenty of guys who can score on college teams. the pelicans let him expand their game because all they care about is developing a superstar.

 

[sufandu]

The elite have no business in the college game. Let them go straight to the NBA or the D league.

It's kind of ironic considering Syracuse really started this trend with Carmelo.

That would be fine if the NBA kept their greasy hands off of the guys that weren't elite but thought they were. Prior to the one-and-done rule there were way to many non-Lebrons that thought they were. The rule helps more than it hurts, including the NBA, and in a situation that will never be perfect for everyone, a small minority having to wait an extra year is a small price to pay.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm of the opinion that the the NBA benefits far less from elite jumping early than the college game is hurt by the next tier down jumping early.

I don't think Davis's game would've stagnated. In an environment where he wouldn't leave after one year, he'd have other elites to play against. It didn't cause the elite college players of the 80's and early 90's to stagnate. Many of them came out of college and dominated their rookie year. Ewing scored 20 ppg, David Robinson 24 ppg, Hakeem Olajuwon 20 ppg, Alonzo Mourning 21 ppg, Shaq 23 ppg. The idea that a guy can't develop in college is overblown in my opinion.

I think, and I have no stats to back this up, that sometimes you get really good talents that get to the league quickly and think they've "made it" and rest on the laurels more than they would in college where they're still hungry and not yet a bigger celebrity than their coach.

I just want to clarify, I'm not sayign the guy would have sucked. I'm not trying to say he wouldn't have developed in college either. If he was a rookie next year I would expect him to be an awesome player. But I think for a guy of his caliber, he benefited more from playing against elite competition than he would have if he was in college for 4 years. There's no real way to prove it either way, but it it intuitively makes sense to me, so i'm gonna run with it.

On a scale of 1-10, if Davis is a 9.5 now, maybe he'd only be a 9 next year if went to school for 4 years. If that makes sense.

That would be fine if the NBA kept their greasy hands off of the guys that weren't elite but thought they were. Prior to the one-and-done rule there were way to many non-Lebrons that thought they were. The rule helps more than it hurts, including the NBA, and in a situation that will never be perfect for everyone, a small minority having to wait an extra year is a small price to pay.[/QUOTE]

I 100% hear what you're saying, I just think it's real easy to make this point where you aren't the one who has to go back to school and risk getting hurt etc, and not get paid millions of dollars.

 

[Alsacs]

I was randomly thinking about this last night, this would have benefited the college game but I think it would have hurt the NBA game. For the elite level guys, I am of the opinion the sooner they make the NBA, the better. Anthony Davis for instance would have been a senior this year; instead he's in the NBA having one of the best statistical seasons of all time. I think his game might have stagnated a bit if he spent the last few years in college instead of competing at the higher level.

Keep in mind I'm talking the elite level guys here.

I don't disagree and don't think the Anthony Davis type talents should stay in school, but even back in the day they would stay 2 years like an Isiah Thomas or Magic Johnson. Davis should go pro after 1 year. The problem is go look at the 2012 NBA draft. The 2nd best player from that draft has been a Senior drafted by Portland Damien Lillard. The 3rd best player has been either Andre Drummond or Senior 2nd round pick Draymond Green.

These Seniors don't get the respect that 1 and dones get. I wish more kids who weren't Lebron, Carmelo, Anthony Davis would spend 2 or more years developing their game. Steph Curry played 3 years in college, James Harden and Russell Westbrook played 2 years.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I don't disagree and don't think the Anthony Davis type talents should stay in school, but even back in the day they would stay 2 years like an Isiah Thomas or Magic Johnson. Davis should go pro after 1 year. The problem is go look at the 2012 NBA draft. The 2nd best player from that draft has been a Senior drafted by Portland Damien Lillard. The 3rd best player has been either Andre Drummond or Senior 2nd round pick Draymond Green.

These Seniors don't get the respect that 1 and dones get. I wish more kids who weren't Lebron, Carmelo, Anthony Davis would spend 2 or more years developing their game. Steph Curry played 3 years in college, James Harden and Russell Westbrook played 2 years.

James Harden was out-played by Jonny doe

 

[RF2044]

I think the big problem is that the orientation of which kids are drafted has changed. It is obvious that a Lebron or a Carmelo or an Anthony Davis are going to be superstars. The funny thing is that nearly 20 years ago, players like Kobe Bryant got drafted around #13, Kevin Durant around #5, Tracy McGrady around #10. That's because people weren't sure about how they'd perform, coming straight out of high school.

After those guys -- who were supremely talented, for the record -- did well, the NBA shifted to a mode where they were more about potential than proven production.

I also think that NBA front office types became more risk-averse when it came to opportunity cost of missing out than ever before. They would rather take a guy and miss than not take him and have him blow up. Which is why they reached to take unproven high school prospects in the aftermath of Kobe / KG / TMac, hoping that they'd get the next one.

Problem is, the vast majority of early entrants aren't nearly as talented as they were. That's how guys like Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer, Draymon Green, etc. drop into the second round every year, and then go on to be fantastic players.

 

[Millhouse]

I think the big problem is that the orientation of which kids are drafted has changed. It is obvious that a Lebron or a Carmelo or an Anthony Davis are going to be superstars. The funny thing is that nearly 20 years ago, players like Kobe Bryant got drafted around #13, Kevin Durant around #5, Tracy McGrady around #10. That's because people weren't sure about how they'd perform, coming straight out of high school.

After those guys -- who were supremely talented, for the record -- did well, the NBA shifted to a mode where they were more about potential than proven production.

I also think that NBA front office types became more risk-averse when it came to opportunity cost of missing out than ever before. They would rather take a guy and miss than not take him and have him blow up. Which is why they reached to take unproven high school prospects in the aftermath of Kobe / KG / TMac, hoping that they'd get the next one.

Problem is, the vast majority of early entrants aren't nearly as talented as they were. That's how guys like Michael Redd, Carlos Boozer, Draymon Green, etc. drop into the second round every year, and then go on to be fantastic players.

you're not winning anything with michael redd leading the way. i don't think it's risk aversion, it's rational to try to get superstars. that's how you win titles.

 

[sufandu]

I 100% hear what you're saying, I just think it's real easy to make this point where you aren't the one who has to go back to school and risk getting hurt etc, and not get paid millions of dollars.

It's true it is easy for me, but in my life I've seen a lot of people making a lot less money treated much worse than these potential millionaires. This is the only case where I it argued so strongly that an employer has a responsibility to allow a potential employee to make their money even if it's at the expense of the employers product. When I see factory workers advocated for just as much, maybe I'll change my tune. Maybe I'm a jerk, but that's how I see it.

Also I'd rather have a kid go back to school, get hurt, get a degree and be employable than see a kid jump for the early money, get hurt, squander his cash (I realize not everyone does this), and also be behind the 8-ball with future employment. If getting hurt is so likely, a plan B needs to be in the works. If it's not so likely that a guy doesn't have a plan B, then waiting a year isn't a big deal.

 

[Knicks411]

It's true it is easy for me, but in my life I've seen a lot of people making a lot less money treated much worse than these potential millionaires. This is the only case where I it argued so strongly that an employer has a responsibility to allow a potential employee to make their money even if it's at the expense of the employers product. When I see factory workers advocated for just as much, maybe I'll change my tune. Maybe I'm a jerk, but that's how I see it.

Also I'd rather have a kid go back to school, get hurt, get a degree and be employable than see a kid jump for the early money, get hurt, squander his cash (I realize not everyone does this), and also be behind the 8-ball with future employment. If getting hurt is so likely, a plan B needs to be in the works. If it's not so likely that a guy doesn't have a plan B, then waiting a year isn't a big deal.

Well the thing is in a lot of cases, the kid is not going back to school to graduate, but to play another year to help his team win and he's being pushed by the team/coaches to not really push himself academically, just to do enough to stay eligible and leave time to practice, work out, etc. And as is always pointed out, it's not like you can't go back to school after you cash those huge checks.

And like i said, it's not like I think your overall point is bad/wrong, because I agree with a lot of it. I just have a hard time with the idea of telling someone to turn down millions for a year or two because it'll be "better" for them, especially when really it will be "better" for the game of college basketball as a whole more than it'll be good for the individual as a whole. (If that makes sense). I'm really torn on this whole thing. Also, I don't have a problem with the NBA imposing the one and done or two years or whatever, they're running a business and if they can bargain with the NBAPA and put these rules in place, then fair enough. As long as we accept that the NBA is doing whats best for them.

 

[FortyFourCT]

I did preface it by saying it was just my opinion, and I am far from the only one that finds the NBA unwatchable. You may disagree and that is fine, but I'm not alone on an island here thinking they have it wrong, sorry.

 

[sufandu]

Well the thing is in a lot of cases, the kid is not going back to school to graduate, but to play another year to help his team win and he's being pushed by the team/coaches to not really push himself academically, just to do enough to stay eligible and leave time to practice, work out, etc. And as is always pointed out, it's not like you can't go back to school after you cash those huge checks.

And like i said, it's not like I think your overall point is bad/wrong, because I agree with a lot of it. I just have a hard time with the idea of telling someone to turn down millions for a year or two because it'll be "better" for them, especially when really it will be "better" for the game of college basketball as a whole more than it'll be good for the individual as a whole. (If that makes sense). I'm really torn on this whole thing. Also, I don't have a problem with the NBA imposing the one and done or two years or whatever, they're running a business and if they can bargain with the NBAPA and put these rules in place, then fair enough. As long as we accept that the NBA is doing whats best for them.

It's true you can go back to school, and guys have done it. The thing with that is that most of these guys don't look at themselves as one contract guys and my guess is that by the time they realize they are too much of the money is gone for them to go back to school. In the case of the guy that's just not good enough, no biggy, go play overseas and have a great career. For a guy that gets hurt and burns through it, he's out of luck. How often does this happen? Beat's me.

As far as the guys that are pushed to go back for the good of the team and encouraged to not take school seriously, that's a whole different problem. It's multi-layered too. The biggest thing is that our culture needs to stop telling these kids that sports is the most important thing in the world and that world revolves around them by the time they're in 7th grade. The problem with any system is rarely the system but the corrupt and unethical people within it. How do you fight that? Holy crap, I don't know. Schools need to care enough about academics to police it properly at every level from middle school through college. Parents need to tell their kids that the student part of student-athlete is most important. Kids need to believe that there is another way to "make it" in life aside from becoming a big time athlete. I don't know how all that gets done. It won't because there are too many scumbags that benefit from manipulating vulnerable people.

Like you said, we agree on most of this stuff.

The more college athletics goes down the road it's on, the less I care about them. I really wish the NBA would invest in a full on developmental league so that there could be less pretending with the amateurism of college basketball. Then we could get an MLB type rule where if a kid decides to go the pro route and gets drafted into the developmental league, the league has to guarantee them 3 year contracts. If they go the college route they're untouchable for 3 years. That would force the NBA to do some due diligence before talking a kid out of college since they couldn't just bring them in for a year and then throw them away if it didn't work out.

 

[RF2044]

you're not winning anything with michael redd leading the way. i don't think it's risk aversion, it's rational to try to get superstars. that's how you win titles.

Oh, so the littany of high school entrants that followed Lebron / Kobe were all superstars? Most of them were washouts who flamed out quickly. Trying to get superstars is the goal of every NBA team. Drafting Kwame Brown or swinging for the fences with Lasagna Flop or Ndubi Ibi wasn't rational at all. Those were desperation moves, hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.

Also, Redd could shoot; I would figure you'd have a scatterplot poster dedicated to him somewhere in your cube.

 

[Lawrinson14]

I really wish the NBA would invest in a full on developmental league so that there could be less pretending with the amateurism of college basketball. Then we could get an MLB type rule where if a kid decides to go the pro route and gets drafted into the developmental league, the league has to guarantee them 3 year contracts.

Never going to happen. In baseball, a 25-28 year old rookie is not uncommon. In basketball, that player would be considered old.

 

[Ringostar57]

Amateur Athletic Union AAU. Amateur my ass. Everyone looking and getting a payday!

 

[Alsacs]

NBA Draft is becoming more like the MLB draft and less like the NFL draft by the year. I mean see potential in some of these guys but if my team is struggling I don't see a top 5 NBA player in this class for like 3-4 years.

 

[Cusefan0307]

you're not winning anything with michael redd leading the way. i don't think it's risk aversion, it's rational to try to get superstars. that's how you win titles.

Michael Redd was a great scorer until his knees robbed him of the prime of his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reddmi01.html

Draymond Green is going to be the DPOY most likely.

 

[sufandu]

Never going to happen. In baseball, a 25-28 year old rookie is not uncommon. In basketball, that player would be considered old.

Not sure where you get 25-28 years old from what I posted. The 3 year guarantee was for kids straight out of high school to make sure they have a chance to develop before the NBA throws them away. Guys coming after 3-4 years of college would be business as usual, guaranteed contract for first rounders, no guarantee for second round.