Marrone's recruits

[SWC75]

And the legend. Diamond Ferri from RB to FS to RB/FS against B.C.
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Good players will find the field no matter what. Players who switch positions are typically the most competitive as others would either pout or transfer. Give me the Joe Fields, Andrew Robinson, Max Suter and Cody Catalina's everyday. They are a coaches dreams due to their commitment and great work ethic.

I was trying to remember the last time we played this well in all departments. I thought maybe the Diamond Ferri game. it will always be called that.

 

[SU2NASA]

I don't get why we are going hard on D. It is a lot easier to get guys on O and if they don't turn out move them to D. It happens all the time. You don't see it often the other way. Graham is an exception. I rather see us get 4 WRs and move one to CB and one to OLB than see us take 1 WR and put all our eggs in that guy turning out. I rather take 4 RBs and and move one to SS or OLB than to put it on 1 guy. I rather take 2 QBs and move one to TE or WR than to put it on one guy. Who knows maybe this is our strategy and we just can't get the O guys right now.

Guys I can think of that have changed after getting to SU

Dee Brown QB to RB
Kevin Johnson QB to WR
Joe Fields QB to FS
Tebucky Jones RB to FS
Kellen Pruitt WR to OLB
Derrell Smith RB to MLB
Doug Hogue RB to OLB
Keon Walker RB to SS
Ian McIntosh WR to FS

Diamond Ferri to everything vs. BC

 

[SoBristol]

Does this game show we are getting the offensive skills guys we need? We don't really know about recruits like Broyld and Smallwood, and the current commits include very few skills guys and only one RB that has a high ranking. The WR recruits (in all of Marrone's classes) include a lot with good size, but not a single one with a top 100 position ranking.

So, I would say no -- jury still out. What Friday does show is that Marrone can do a lot with GROB's recruits -- Nassib, Bailey, Chew, Lemon, Graham, Provo & Stevens. He filled in some OL holes with JUCOs Hay & Tiller (& last year, with Cruz and Weaver).

Marrone's H.S. recruits haven't yet had a significant impact as offensive skill guys, whereas Carter, Sales, Lemon & Bailey all had impact as frosh. Looking for Marrone & staff to fill the remaining slots in the 2012 class with some of those guys.

 

[SoBristol]

Taking things a step further in regards to that idea, it would be one thing if Robinson's 4-stars and 3-stars were a major factor of the last two years. But most of his highly-regarded recruits washed out for one reason or another. Marrone has utilized many more of the man's 2-star recruits than he has those with three or more.

You are overlooking Carter and Hogue -- the two leaders on last year's team who were vital to a winning season. True, some others washed out after having some impact (Sales) or some potential (Collier), but Sales was a major factor in the bowl game and I believe Provo was a 3 star. As for numbers, Marrone has used more 2 stars because that is what he had and what he has recruited. He made offers to 4 stars -- they are playing for other teams.

 

[upperdeck]

next year at Rb we have gulley, smith, moore and the FR. Smith runs like a quicker version of Carter, Moore a bigger version. We will have solid guys at Wr next year. Kobena/Graham west/foster and lemon. but time will tell if we have a playmaker who makes something out of nothing.

would like to see some 4 rcvr sets with moore.smith and run the spread read plays. they both seem hard to bring down 1-1 and with fewer in the box we could force some times to play in the box enough the graham/kobena/chew someone could get deep..

west/foster play real physical which with lemon adds a dimension blocking we really need. even coach mentioned the west block in the PC.

 

[sufandu]

It seems kinda like GRob was good at getting the occasional stud (Carter, Collier, Hogue, Sales) but not good at getting all of the other pieces around them. So far Marrone has been better at getting more pieces in place, but maybe fewer studs, at least on offense. I think some of that has to do with fighting the reputation of losing that GRob left him. All-in-all Marrone and his staff seems to be far greater at evaluating the less than obvious talent. I think the big time guys will come as they gain more confidence that we're back for good.

 

[rrlbees]

next year at Rb we have gulley, smith, moore and the FR. Smith runs like a quicker version of Carter, Moore a bigger version. We will have solid guys at Wr next year. Kobena/Graham west/foster and lemon. but time will tell if we have a playmaker who makes something out of nothing.

would like to see some 4 rcvr sets with moore.smith and run the spread read plays. they both seem hard to bring down 1-1 and with fewer in the box we could force some times to play in the box enough the graham/kobena/chew someone could get deep..

west/foster play real physical which with lemon adds a dimension blocking we really need. even coach mentioned the west block in the PC.

Don't forget Hale. He's the kid I can't wait to see.

 

[qdawgg]

Don't forget Hale. He's the kid I can't wait to see.

Hale and AAM were the 2 guys I've been most excited to see develop over the next few years. I think AAM will have a very solid career in the very least, as well as Hale. I think both have the potential to be very very good players but solid players in the very least.

 

[jekelish]

Is Lemon back next year? If so, that's freaking awesome. But it feels like he's been here about 12 years. Again, though - awesome if he's got another year. He could get 75 catches and over 1000 yards next year working with Nassib. I'm not even kidding, he's already got 34 this year and he's not even the number one WR, arguably.

EDIT: Does Alec's dad still post with us, or read the board? Because I hope he's proud of how incredibly well Alec is playing this year.

 

[rrlbees]

Is Lemon back next year? If so, that's freaking awesome. But it feels like he's been here about 12 years. Again, though - awesome if he's got another year. He could get 75 catches and over 1000 yards next year working with Nassib. I'm not even kidding, he's already got 34 this year and he's not even the number one WR, arguably.

EDIT: Does Alec's dad still post with us, or read the board? Because I hope he's proud of how incredibly well Alec is playing this year.

Yes Alec will be back. Chew is the only WR that won't be back.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

You are overlooking Carter and Hogue -- the two leaders on last year's team who were vital to a winning season. True, some others washed out after having some impact (Sales) or some potential (Collier), but Sales was a major factor in the bowl game and I believe Provo was a 3 star. As for numbers, Marrone has used more 2 stars because that is what he had and what he has recruited. He made offers to 4 stars -- they are playing for other teams.

I'm not overlooking Carter or Hogue, I'm just being realistic about the situation. People act like just because those players were originally 4-star guys, that is what Marrone actually inherited. But that isn't the way I remember it. I remember those guys being more or less submerged in a big clusterfluck at the RB position, failing to really separate themselves. Marrone put faith in Delone, and it paid off in the form of a drafted player. Marrone moved Hogue to a new position, and it paid off in the form of a drafted player. Bailey was put into a position to succeed long-term, and perhaps he ends up seeing the same fate as his former competitors for carriers. The only failure, was Collier, another 4-star. Our coach can judge talent, and he can coach it up.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm not overlooking Carter or Hogue, I'm just being realistic about the situation. People act like just because those players were originally 4-star guys, that is what Marrone actually inherited. But that isn't the way I remember it. I remember those guys being more or less submerged in a big clusterfluck at the RB position, failing to really separate themselves. Marrone put faith in Delone, and it paid off in the form of a drafted player. Marrone moved Hogue to a new position, and it paid off in the form of a drafted player. Bailey was put into a position to succeed long-term, and perhaps he ends up seeing the same fate as his former competitors for carriers. The only failure, was Collier, another 4-star. Our coach can judge talent, and he can coach it up.

Injuries did that. It wasn't a cluster.

 

[RF2044]

It seems kinda like GRob was good at getting the occasional stud (Carter, Collier, Hogue, Sales) but not good at getting all of the other pieces around them. So far Marrone has been better at getting more pieces in place, but maybe fewer studs, at least on offense. I think some of that has to do with fighting the reputation of losing that GRob left him. All-in-all Marrone and his staff seems to be far greater at evaluating the less than obvious talent. I think the big time guys will come as they gain more confidence that we're back for good.

GRob was a lousy head coach, but one criticism that can't be made would be that he was a poor recruiter. His biggest issue was that while he struck out at several key positions--most notably, LB and TE--that he was never able to adequately address via recruiting.

I'll give him a semi-mulligan on Pierce, who probably would have made a big impact at LB.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

Injuries did that. It wasn't a cluster.

When Marrone got here he had 4 runners with talent, and various styles, but nobody had separated themselves. There is a fine line between an embarrassment of riches and a cluster, and I believe we had the latter. Going back, I am sure a lot of us had some disagreements over how Marrone devised the roles at the time, but he played the situation like an absolute fiddle. Had he been more passive in regards to the situation I doubt the turnaround would have taken place this quickly.

 

[BleedsOrange44]

Keith Bulluck from S to LB.

I'd say that worked out pretty well lol

 

[BlackKnight76]

Don't forget Merk from WR to DB to WR to DB (not sure where he started, but he played each position at least twice and I was only here for his last three years.)

 

[rrlbees]

GRob was a lousy head coach, but one criticism that can't be made would be that he was a poor recruiter. His biggest issue was that while he struck out at several key positions--most notably, LB and TE--that he was never able to adequately address via recruiting.

I'll give him a semi-mulligan on Pierce, who probably would have made a big impact at LB.

Provo's turned out fine but we did miss on a couple big names. Gronkowski and Graham in particular.

 

[rrlbees]

When Marrone got here he had 4 runners with talent, and various styles, but nobody had separated themselves. There is a fine line between an embarrassment of riches and a cluster, and I believe we had the latter. Going back, I am sure a lot of us had some disagreements over how Marrone devised the roles at the time, but he played the situation like an absolute fiddle. Had he been more passive in regards to the situation I doubt the turnaround would have taken place this quickly.

Still not sure of the point. Marrone had to go with Carter, he was easily the best and was finally 100%. Carter was a frosh AA.

 

[billsin01]

Agree.

Phil Nash QB to FS.
Wilie Ford RB to DB
Steve Gregory WR to DB.
JR Johnson RB to LB

I'm sure there are many more.

I think d'amon merkerson should count three times in each category (offense to defense and defense to offense).

 

[billsin01]

I was trying to remember the last time we played this well in all departments. I thought maybe the Diamond Ferri game. it will always be called that.

I kid you not, I was trying to answer the same question. I paused on the VT game where Freeney had the 5 sacks or whatever, but since we lost, I guess that would be a tough one to use. I finally remembered that game and what a thorough beatdown it was. I'd say Friday's performance was easily the best all-around game we've played since then.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

Still not sure of the point. Marrone had to go with Carter, he was easily the best and was finally 100%. Carter was a frosh AA.

The point is, this worry that Marrone hasn't proven he can build an offense with his own recruits is ridiculous. The vast majority of the recruits that GRob left behind were not any better than the kids Marrone has been bringing in. The difference is, Marrone actually developed those guys. Delone is perhaps the lone exception, and nobody knew what we were going to get from him after his injury.

 

[SoBristol]

The point is, this worry that Marrone hasn't proven he can build an offense with his own recruits is ridiculous. The vast majority of the recruits that GRob left behind were not any better than the kids Marrone has been bringing in. The difference is, Marrone actually developed those guys. Delone is perhaps the lone exception, and nobody knew what we were going to get from him after his injury.

If the offensive display vs West Virginia was a typical output from a Marrone offense, your point might be more valid. In year 2 (last year), Marrone won with Shafer's defense almost entirely, and a highly conservative offense built around Deleone Carter. In year 3, the offense has been limited in most games. It has a low ranking in national stats). Bailey, Provo and Nassib (all GROB recruits) have been the main cogs. It came together against WVir and we hope that will now be the trend for the remaining games.
Overall, "the vast majority of the recruits" under Marrone are better -- more depth in each class; more defensive talent; upgrade in the lines; much better in filling holes with JUCOs. He has added some toughness in the OL (Tiller and Hay) and developed Nassib into a solid QB.
But if you are focusing on recruiting skill guys for the offense, the facts don't support your point. All the impact guys on offense against West Virginia were GROB recruits, with limited contributions from Marrone's skill position recruits like Wales, Moore, West & Kobena.
This is no brief for GROB -- Marrone is way better. The point is that Marrone has yet to land his Mike Williams, or Carter or Bailey, or Sales. It is the missing element in the rebuilding program.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

But if you are focusing on recruiting skill guys for the offense, the facts don't support your point. All the impact guys on offense against West Virginia were GROB recruits, with limited contributions from Marrone's skill position recruits like Wales, Moore, West & Kobena.
This is no brief for GROB -- Marrone is way better. The point is that Marrone has yet to land his Mike Williams, or Carter or Bailey, or Sales. It is the missing element in the rebuilding program.

I guess this is pretty much what I am talking about. Just because it's the last element doesn't mean it's time to worry. There have only been so many recruiting classes, and it was a CHOICE to focus on defense first. You are definitely not incorrect that he hasn't yet done it with his own recruits, and therefor there is a measurement of doubt that can be drawn... But sports analysis and prediction is about reading between the lines and making educated guesses, so you shouldn't HAVE to see it before you believe it all the time. There are enough facts for me to completely buy into the recruiting process.

-We have completely amped the athleticism on defense.
-We have completely amped the athleticism on the line.
-With the exception of Delone, almost all of the GRob players that Marrone has utilized on a regular basis over this year and last were not rated much higher than Marrone's guys. So if he can develop the low-level guys out of GRob's classes, why are people afraid he won't be able to develop his own? Given the fact he actually gets to recruit players to fit HIS system this time around, and I would venture is a better judge of talent, and a better coach.

 

[SoBristol]

Yes, I agree with all that. Guys like Provo, Chew and Graham developed in the program, under Marrone. Some others (Lemon, Bailey, Carter) were pretty good as frosh, but continued to get better.
What I am looking for: another top RB recruit and another top WR recruit, and an impact DE. You can build a foundation with those hidden gem two stars -- but, again, you'd like to see Marrone land his Carter, his Mike Williams, his Doug Hogue, and his Chandler Jones. He needs to be landing some of the 4 stars that have been going to Pitt & BC. As he makes a statement this year (two bowls in a row, winning record in the league), ACC affiliation, he should get in the door with some of the higher ranking recruits.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

Yes, I agree with all that. Guys like Provo, Chew and Graham developed in the program, under Marrone. Some others (Lemon, Bailey, Carter) were pretty good as frosh, but continued to get better.
What I am looking for: another top RB recruit and another top WR recruit, and an impact DE. You can build a foundation with those hidden gem two stars -- but, again, you'd like to see Marrone land his Carter, his Mike Williams, his Doug Hogue, and his Chandler Jones. He needs to be landing some of the 4 stars that have been going to Pitt & BC. As he makes a statement this year (two bowls in a row, winning record in the league), ACC affiliation, he should get in the door with some of the higher ranking recruits.

I think we are doing well at DE right now. The athleticism is looking good with Simmons, Poncho, Washington, and Micah. Getting that Johnson guy out of Nassau would be cool, add some insurance to the position. But I do wonder about the possibility of bringing in another big DT instead and just letting Goggins jump into Marinovich's spot for a year.

I would love to see Lynch make the flip and join McFarlane as a RB in this class, but if not, we still have Smallwood joining an already youthful rotation.

If we can get a stud WR, great, but Cornelius and Lewis should give us two different types of WR to join another young unit. And perhaps Smallwood gets moved there, giving us a third version of pass-catcher in this class?

I want another athletic TE. Or maybe I just want to make sure we land Thompson, haha... I also want more DB's (Morgan please???)... And give me another big DT or OL... Oh well, might as well land one of those sweet LBs we are still involved in too!!!