Maryland Gameday...

[JeremyCuse]

Understood. But anyone can leave any program at any time. There is no way to predict it.

This is absolutely true, but these guys are one offs, there's no Shellenberger from Quinnipiac or Canisius jumping in the portal or an O'Neil type doing a grad year from Lafayette. The closest guys to their level are already at major programs (for the most part) and its highly unlikely their bolting as most are under NIL's.

 

[orangecuse]

I am talking about the other guys comments not yours. He said that. And I am just calling out stuff I disagree with.

My bad. When you quoted my post, I read your first sentence as "this"post vs. "his" post.

 

[DoctahLexus]

My bad. When you quoted my post, I read your first sentence as "this"post vs. "his" post.

All good! Should have responded to him directly

 

[JeremyCuse]

Some random thoughts ... I couldn't watch the game live, and couldn't help myself from looking at the score before watching so I might have a different sort of perspective of this game.

-My initial thought was this game would be a lot like last year's Duke game. In the sense that that game was a quality win the Orange could have "stole". They were outplayed for the majority of that Duke game in the Dome, but Mark had a million saves and Duke hit a million pipes and somehow the Orange had a chance to win in overtime. After watching this game however, it felt much differnt. to me, Syracuse looked like the better team for three quarters. I know I am biased, but this made me feel like Syracuse was "at the level". I came away thinking Syracuse should have won that game instead of thinking Syracuse could have won that game.

-The biggest surprise of this young season has been Finn Thomson's struggles. I just did not see this sort of shooting slump coming. I said preseason the guy I want shooting more was Thomson. How he went from shooting 40% to under 10% is mystifying. I am not sure how he gets his confidence back but he needs to find it.

-I see a lot of people calling for Birtwistle to moved to the first line, but why not Rhoa? Especially after last game it seems like he should be considered. He has such a good shot, and is such an underrated dodger. The only hesitancy is if you destroy whatever is left of Thomson's confidence. Do the coaches let him figure this out on his own? For all the criticism he is getting he has just two fewer points than Rhoa, and has two more than English. Perhaps we just need to let him figure it out. Season is still young.

-I thought the defense overall looked pretty good. Maryland clearly had a plan, play out the shot clock and work to find the open man. They really like coming around from x and finding a cutter on the other side. The defense, to me looked a lot more comfortable with their slides and recoveries and while the ssdms outside of Rice looked shaky, I think they did an adequate job. Overall I was impressed and I loved the move to a zone defense late in the game to throw Maryland off.

-It's a little thing but I liked Oderina's body language for the game, looks relaxed but engaged as you could see him giving the defense animated directions from the sidelines. A lot has been made in the press about how he "lets you be your own boss", but after watching this game you can tell he does plenty of coaching. Its quite a contrast from who was in charge of the defense last year.

-Biggest question after this game for me is who takes the number one attackman going forward? It wasn't all Figuerias fault, but Brandon Erksa had himself quite a game and burned the redshirt freshman more than a couple of times. Figuerias had the nice play where he dropped him to the turf late, but overall Erksa won that matchup. Do they eventually move Dwan over to take on Alphas? Not giving up on Figuerias at all but things are going to get a lot tougher as the season progresses.

-Have to give Kohn a ton of credit, that was a physical matchup against one of the games best and he stood his own. In hindsight, I may have gone to Mullen late to get someone fresh on the field, considering how taxing some of those face-offs were, but overall you have to be thrilled with that performance.

Good post as usual. Was gonna start a new post outlining a few things but think you hit on a few good points and some I'd disagree with slightly.

Thought as you noted SU played even with Maryland and probably slightly better after the 1st quarter. Thought SU made a few mistakes down the stretch that you can't afford against a team like Maryland and win ie Giving up that quick faceoff goal after finally getting up 2 goals, the late push (a bad call in my mind) against Riley that led to another goal, losing the last three faceoffs (not a mistake but needed one of those especially one of the last two). All that said Syracuse definitely can argue they should have won the game.

I don't think anyone saw Thomson shooting 10% 4 games in but I'm not overly surprised that he's struggling. Finn did a decent amount of damage on the man up unit last year but seemed to struggle for extended periods in 6 on 6 action especially against Peer teams. Finn's a great overall lax player but the concern with him is similar to Marquis at hopkins. Marquis is an unreal box player who I think led the Jr box league in pts 2 years ago and was up there again this past summer, he can't get off the bench at Hopkins. I'm not sure that Finn's elite box game will ever fully transition to the field game. Not giving up on him by any stretch and he's a better player then Marquis but I think the assumption he would be the same field player he is in the box game has unfortunately not come to pass.

In regards to what do do with the midfield I am not sure there is an easy answer for SU. Thomson isn't really an attackmen at this level so if your takign him off the 1st midline it's not to play attack so as you noted its going to be the 2nd midline. TO me the current issue for SU offensively is secondary dodging from attack and Thomson on the 1st midline. Neither really has a can't miss answer. I know you mentioned moving Rhoa but he's giving you a major boost on the 2nd line and him with Stevens gives you two dodgint threats to mesh with either Birtwistle or whoever is on that third line. I don't know if its realistic to bump Thomson down full time at this point but if your Gait and March you also just can't cross your fingers and wait for him to hopefully figure it out either. Birtwistle to me is the answer because he can invert if needed, isn't afraid to dodge and has shown he can also rip a shot. Now he can sometimes get a little shot happy but I fully believe if he's taking half of those shots Thomson took Sat, SU probably wins. I think you also have to consider Birtwistle for him on the man up unit as well. Thomson has missed a number of great looks form that mid spot that Birtwistle could occupy and do a lot of damage. Maybe a change up for a game or two gets Thomson back on track but right now it's hard to see him having a lot of success against Army next week and that D the way he's playing.

With the attack unit, its clear the unit misses Kirst. I know Mule put up ridiculous numbers the last two years but he really hasn't been much of factor since the opening game against Vermont. SU needs a secondary dodger at attack when Joey is drawing everyone's # pole (he's gonna see another great one next Wednesday). Mule has to be that guy because we know that's not Hiltz's game. Again outside of giving Elijah-Brown some run I am not sure there are really many realistic options for SU here. SU could in theory move Leo but now he's no longer getting a shorty and your opening up a major hole on the 1st midfield. Deere is not a realistic option and probably should have red-shirted. SU seems against Birtwistle playing attack for some reason but he would be the other realistic option. In re-watching some of the game I saw Hiltz dodge a few times but he tried to make a great pass versus rippign a shot, he has to be more involved the offense against better teams. The no look shovel pass is great against Manhattan and Hobart, its not gonna work against Maryland and ND. the other concern with him is he is continuing to turn the ball over at an alarming rate. He had 3 to's on Sat vs 2 shots. That's simply not gonna work, cut it or whatever phrase you wanna use.

Thought Joey played pretty well. Maybe 1 or 2 shots he forced but still had 3 pts against Zap and I thought he played within himself again for the most part. He just missed on one of those patented BTB looks. Leo and Rhoa were excellent, both came up huge and Rhoa adding the ability to dodge to his game, wow watch out. Those two are gonna cause a ton of issues for opposing defenses especially when you consider that Thomson and English haven't come close to playing at the levels their capable of. Thought Stevens was a little quiet, had 1 GB and 1 shot. We seem unclear exactly how to use him. 1 gb each the last two games is very unlike him. Wonder if we try and play him 2 way a little bit, to talented to just run the 2nd line.

This post is getting a little long so I'll give my thoughts on the defense in a separate post.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Some random thoughts ... I couldn't watch the game live, and couldn't help myself from looking at the score before watching so I might have a different sort of perspective of this game.

-My initial thought was this game would be a lot like last year's Duke game. In the sense that that game was a quality win the Orange could have "stole". They were outplayed for the majority of that Duke game in the Dome, but Mark had a million saves and Duke hit a million pipes and somehow the Orange had a chance to win in overtime. After watching this game however, it felt much differnt. to me, Syracuse looked like the better team for three quarters. I know I am biased, but this made me feel like Syracuse was "at the level". I came away thinking Syracuse should have won that game instead of thinking Syracuse could have won that game.

-The biggest surprise of this young season has been Finn Thomson's struggles. I just did not see this sort of shooting slump coming. I said preseason the guy I want shooting more was Thomson. How he went from shooting 40% to under 10% is mystifying. I am not sure how he gets his confidence back but he needs to find it.

-I see a lot of people calling for Birtwistle to moved to the first line, but why not Rhoa? Especially after last game it seems like he should be considered. He has such a good shot, and is such an underrated dodger. The only hesitancy is if you destroy whatever is left of Thomson's confidence. Do the coaches let him figure this out on his own? For all the criticism he is getting he has just two fewer points than Rhoa, and has two more than English. Perhaps we just need to let him figure it out. Season is still young.

-I thought the defense overall looked pretty good. Maryland clearly had a plan, play out the shot clock and work to find the open man. They really like coming around from x and finding a cutter on the other side. The defense, to me looked a lot more comfortable with their slides and recoveries and while the ssdms outside of Rice looked shaky, I think they did an adequate job. Overall I was impressed and I loved the move to a zone defense late in the game to throw Maryland off.

-It's a little thing but I liked Oderina's body language for the game, looks relaxed but engaged as you could see him giving the defense animated directions from the sidelines. A lot has been made in the press about how he "lets you be your own boss", but after watching this game you can tell he does plenty of coaching. Its quite a contrast from who was in charge of the defense last year.

-Biggest question after this game for me is who takes the number one attackman going forward? It wasn't all Figuerias fault, but Brandon Erksa had himself quite a game and burned the redshirt freshman more than a couple of times. Figuerias had the nice play where he dropped him to the turf late, but overall Erksa won that matchup. Do they eventually move Dwan over to take on Alphas? Not giving up on Figuerias at all but things are going to get a lot tougher as the season progresses.

-Have to give Kohn a ton of credit, that was a physical matchup against one of the games best and he stood his own. In hindsight, I may have gone to Mullen late to get someone fresh on the field, considering how taxing some of those face-offs were, but overall you have to be thrilled with that performance.

Regarding the defense I thought the unit played fairly well overall with some issues that can hopefully be cleaned up. I think they played much better after a bad and at time really bad 1st quarter. I like as yo noted Odierna's style and the zone was a nice touch. Loved the move to get Levine some extended run. He has the size and experience and though he did good considering this was the game SU decided to throw him into the fire. If he turns into a solid SSDM SU's gonna kick themselves not red-shirting him last year when he played in only one game against Hobart.

Defensively SU is still committing to many penalties but they were much better after the 1st quarter. The Riley push was a questionable call at best in the 4th but he also has to know time and score there. Maryland's O is not an elite level offense, its certainly a tier below ND, Duke, UVA and probably even Cornell but it's still a solid group. Holding them to 12 in regulation when 2 goals came on the EMO and a third I think right after it ended is a nice sign. I would also note that SU caught a bad break on the goal of the faceoff when it was up 2. Kohn won the draw but slipped and the 2 wing players converged and the ball got hit out toward the Maryland O end with no one around and right to a Maryland wing guy.

SU still has a tendency to get lulled to sleep at times. Got caught a few times by Maryland and nearly lost the game in regulation but the Maryland attackmen missed the shot. Thought the close guys all played pretty well. Erksa having 4 goals was very disappointing but in watching the game again, 2 of them came off of switches where he got matchup on a shorty, one he beat Riley on a speed move and I can't recall the other. Fairly certain SU's gonna live and die with him taking every teams #1 O threat. He'sg onna get better and better as the season goes on.

I can't speak to Olexxo all that much, form what I watched SU seemed to be moving him around on different players. I think I saw him on 3 or 4 different guys throughout the game. I know someone mentioned he struggled a bit in the 2nd half, I will need to watch more. I watched Wright some, seems a bit out of sorts at times. On that game winning goal for Maryland I have no idea what he was doing.

Overall I thought the D played well but I think we will get a better sense vs Army, they have the best offense SU will see to date and SU will need to double pole the midfield so Odierna will have his hands full.

 

[CuseAlum87]

Jeremy, great 2 posts but I disagree on the Push call on Fig. He clearly pushed him in the back and the player went down. It was unnecessary and a bonehead play at that point of the game ( as you pointed out). Also, Johnny Mullen, who I'm very high on, took a push with possession foul after losing the draw. That can't happen especially against teams like Maryland. Overall, I think the defense is better and will continue to improve. I like Finn Thomson a lot, but he needed to be switched out for Birtwhistle to start second half. Late in the fourth, coaches had Rhoa running with the firsts but it was too little too late.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I question Gary Gait’s vision of ball movement lacrosse, because I’m just not sold on its results against the top teams. Ball movement is great in man-up and against lesser trams, but what about the rest of the game and against good teams? All SU great teams and all Final Four teams have multiple players that can beat their man 1 on 1 and then score or draw a slide and create a scoring opportunity for someone else. When has ball movement been enough to get to the Final Four? The irony is that Gary Gait’s playing style was all about beating his defender 1 on 1.

I gave my impression of the SU team after the first game against Vermont last year, and (as always happens in this forum) I got killed for my thoughts, which actually again turned out to be correct (we went 1-5 in the ACC and had no postseason). I also said at that time that Spallina was too slow to win 1 on 1 match ups (top D1 defenders will not allow him to overpower them), and you guys killed me for that, too. Spallina’s passing is elite, absolutely, and he may end up being the all-time SU leading scorer (and he also seems like a great kid), but if he can’t consistently beat top tier defenders, then, sorry, he’s not leading us to a Final Four. Gait didn’t even have enough confidence to even give him the ball in overtime…

Rhoa and Leo can both dodge and shoot, and their 1 on 1 skills saved us yesterday (in addition to Kohn), but our Attack, as a unit, stunk. Although why would Tillman keep short stick defenders on Rhoa and Leo?! Glad he did, or else we would have been blown out. However, don‘t expect other good teams to make the same mistake. Relying on ball movement to score without having a single attackman that win a 1 on match-up is not a good recipe (obviously we don’t need all of our attackmen to be dodgers, because we need a finisher). But Mule is not a dodger, Hiltz (the biggest disappointment on the team) is not a dodger, and Spallina doesn’t have the speed to dodge (can’t they get him to work with track coaches to improve his speed?), so who initiates the offense for us on attack? What about playing Trey Deere on attack? At least give him a chance? Or maybe just keep doing pick plays for Spallina to free him up? Is there any other attackman on the bench that dodge? We saw what a good dodger can do against us, because Erksa was clearly the best player on the field yesterday.

I’m not really seeing a Final Four attack unit here, sorry. Beating up on lesser teams or in our man-up opportunities with beautiful ball movement is great (and I do appreciate the great passing vision of so many of our players), but how can we get back to the Final Four with only having 2 players (both middies) that can beat their defenders and score 1 on 1? It’s been 11 darn years since we made a Final Four… so let’s go!

You raise some good points but some of your solutions aren't realistic at least as this team is currently constructed.

Zappitello is very good against speed dodgers, while Spallina doesn't have elite level speed and he isn't a Powell level dodger, I would caution taking to much away form this game. Zap erased Shellenberger last year probably the top dodging attackmen in the nation. There's very few attackmen in the country if any who are going to beat him consistently dodging 1 on 1. Your point about the rest of the attack is valid. Mule has to be more assertive dodging and Hiltz coming off picks and semi dodges has to pull the trigger more. HE gave up 2 or 3 good looks he should have ripped. Deere right now is an elite level finisher but he's less of a dodging threat then Hiltz. Putting him in isn't gonna help that aspect in anyway. Your only realistic options are Elijah-Brown or Birtwistle and I don't see either happening at least not yet.

Part of the reason SU is playing using elite ball movement as it's not a dodge heavy/ISO team. It has guys who can do it ie Joey, Leo etc and guys who are trying to hone that skill ie Rhoa. SU doesn't have an elite dodging attackmen ala Shellenberger, ONeil or Kavanaugh. Leo is probably the closest thing and he could end up at attack next year because of it. Joey can win 1 on 1 matchups, but he's more of a bull dodger, elite cover guys will always give him some trouble especially a guy like Zap whose at the top of the elite category. SU showed Rhoa and Leo can win one on one matchups so there is the ability to do it there but we do need another attackmen who can balance out Joey.

As for why Tillman didn't move a pole onto Leo or Rhoa, the answer to that is he didnt want to short English or Birtwistle, trust me if he had those two would have been attacking. Tillman wasn't being generous, there was no great 2nd player to short out of his options.

In the end it may take until next season for SU to get that second dodging attackmen when Anderson and O'farrell come in and SU can also attack the portal again.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Jeremy, great 2 posts but I disagree on the Push call on Fig. He clearly pushed him in the back and the player went down. It was unnecessary and a bonehead play at that point of the game ( as you pointed out). Also, Johnny Mullen, who I'm very high on, took a push with possession foul after losing the draw. That can't happen especially against teams like Maryland. Overall, I think the defense is better and will continue to improve. I like Finn Thomson a lot, but he needed to be switched out for Birtwhistle to start second half. Late in the fourth, coaches had Rhoa running with the firsts but it was too little too late.

From where I was watching it looked like the Maryland guy flopped a bit but your right, in that case you gotta know time and score and hold back there. I do remember the Mullen play as well and your right, can't have it. That was a frosh mistake all the way, John's a great guy, he will learn.

Your point about moving off of Thomson at half is a great one. Gait like Desko is slow on the draw to make changes which is a bit disconcerting. I have a feeling if TIllman wsa in the same spot it's not taking that long. Rhoa on the 1st line is intriguing, really hope we explore that more, definitely hurts the 2nd line a lot though.

 

[CuseAlum87]

From where I was watching it looked like the Maryland guy flopped a bit but your right, in that case you gotta know time and score and hold back there. I do remember the Mullen play as well and your right, can't have it. That was a frosh mistake all the way, John's a great guy, he will learn.

Your point about moving off of Thomson at half is a great one. Gait like Desko is slow on the draw to make changes which is a bit disconcerting. I have a feeling if TIllman wsa in the same spot it's not taking that long. Rhoa on the 1st line is intriguing, really hope we explore that more, definitely hurts the 2nd line a lot though.

I agree that moving Rhoa up will hurt the second line but I think he's earned it. How about his for the Utah game: Leo, Rhoa, and Birtwhistle on the first line. English, Thomson, and Stevens on the second. English and Thomson would be going up against teams second rope units which should open up some opportunites for them. Just spitballing here.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I agree that moving Rhoa up will hurt the second line but I think he's earned it. How about his for the Utah game: Leo, Rhoa, and Birtwhistle on the first line. English, Thomson, and Stevens on the second. English and Thomson would be going up against teams second rope units which should open up some opportunites for them. Just spitballing here.

Interesting idea for that 1st line. Good luck shorting two of those three. Not sure SU is gonna do that because English is drawing the top LSM every game but I wouldn't mind seeing them getting a few runs. That 2nd line could have some issues. English would certainly get the poll and Thomson hasn't show a lot dodging. You'd probably need to put a guy like Hottle out there with his speed dodging ability to open things up a bit. Stevens and English potentially playing together would be interesting.

 

[DMVCuseLax]

Regarding the defense I thought the unit played fairly well overall with some issues that can hopefully be cleaned up. I think they played much better after a bad and at time really bad 1st quarter. I like as yo noted Odierna's style and the zone was a nice touch. Loved the move to get Levine some extended run. He has the size and experience and though he did good considering this was the game SU decided to throw him into the fire. If he turns into a solid SSDM SU's gonna kick themselves not red-shirting him last year when he played in only one game against Hobart.

Defensively SU is still committing to many penalties but they were much better after the 1st quarter. The Riley push was a questionable call at best in the 4th but he also has to know time and score there. Maryland's O is not an elite level offense, its certainly a tier below ND, Duke, UVA and probably even Cornell but it's still a solid group. Holding them to 12 in regulation when 2 goals came on the EMO and a third I think right after it ended is a nice sign. I would also note that SU caught a bad break on the goal of the faceoff when it was up 2. Kohn won the draw but slipped and the 2 wing players converged and the ball got hit out toward the Maryland O end with no one around and right to a Maryland wing guy.

SU still has a tendency to get lulled to sleep at times. Got caught a few times by Maryland and nearly lost the game in regulation but the Maryland attackmen missed the shot. Thought the close guys all played pretty well. Erksa having 4 goals was very disappointing but in watching the game again, 2 of them came off of switches where he got matchup on a shorty, one he beat Riley on a speed move and I can't recall the other. Fairly certain SU's gonna live and die with him taking every teams #1 O threat. He'sg onna get better and better as the season goes on.

I can't speak to Olexxo all that much, form what I watched SU seemed to be moving him around on different players. I think I saw him on 3 or 4 different guys throughout the game. I know someone mentioned he struggled a bit in the 2nd half, I will need to watch more. I watched Wright some, seems a bit out of sorts at times. On that game winning goal for Maryland I have no idea what he was doing.

Overall I thought the D played well but I think we will get a better sense vs Army, they have the best offense SU will see to date and SU will need to double pole the midfield so Odierna will have his hands full.

Rewatched the game and focused on Figueiras and Erksa. The one thing that sticks out is most of the issues was getting around picks.

1st goal - Figueiras was picked at GLE and had to run around pick - Erksa ran right past our SS and got no jam to slow him up.

2nd goal - Figueiras was sealed high by Saams man. Saam chased the first cutter which left Erksa wide open.

3rd goal - Spillana was covering him and got a late slide

4th goal - Jump Shot up the hash. Nice shot. He had a step on Figueiras but looking at shot placement it was one that could have been saved. Marks guessed low.

It seemed Figueiras gained speed and confidence during the course of the game. One thing I’d like to see is more physicality.

 

[cuselaxss26]

not that think will happen but someone who think can dodge or has shown some speed is tenaglia. Every goal i’ve seen him score this year n last was a straight speed dodge across top shot on run. He played attack n seems to show of nice shot.

 

[cuselaxss26]

But english needs to work on his left hand even if just to fake them out. As he is all right n defense seems to know it so able to run right along with him cause he never even attempts to go to left. Stevens and english also have to pull their weight more i think. Yes they do play little of both but their on O more then d. They have to use their experience in the tight games.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Rewatched the game and focused on Figueiras and Erksa. The one thing that sticks out is most of the issues was getting around picks.

1st goal - Figueiras was picked at GLE and had to run around pick - Erksa ran right past our SS and got no jam to slow him up.

2nd goal - Figueiras was sealed high by Saams man. Saam chased the first cutter which left Erksa wide open.

3rd goal - Spillana was covering him and got a late slide

4th goal - Jump Shot up the hash. Nice shot. He had a step on Figueiras but looking at shot placement it was one that could have been saved. Marks guessed low.

It seemed Figueiras gained speed and confidence during the course of the game. One thing I’d like to see is more physicality.

Figueiras is going to continue to struggle with faster opponents if he doesn’t change his running posture/form. He’s not biomechanically efficient in how he runs. He’s too hunched over with his hips too far under him. The idea that speed can’t be taught is absurd. He’d benefit from that lesson.

 

[AD31]

I really like the idea of Rhoa, Birtwhistle and Leo on 1st line and Stevens, English and Thomson on 2nd. Thomson has to be dropped to 2nd his shooting has been awful and even looks like he lost a lot of power which is probably from trying to aim it as he lacks confidence. One shot he took looked like a kid shooting. I really like Birtwhistle on the 1st line the kid can score plus English and Stevens playing together is interesting. They could take some pressure of Thompson. He has to be removed from EMO too. SU has to win these games they can't let Thomson keep shooting so bad every game. If he's bad again tomo then they need to sit him and let him work thru it in practice. He's still young and can fix his game but there is talent on the sideline who can be an upgrade from how he's been playing. I really would like to see Kellogg get some run on 2nd line with his cannon. Finns shot right now to Kellogg's rocket is a huge upgrade. The two vets Stevens and English then Kellogg with his cannon is intriguing.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I really like the idea of Rhoa, Birtwhistle and Leo on 1st line and Stevens, English and Thomson on 2nd. Thomson has to be dropped to 2nd his shooting has been awful and even looks like he lost a lot of power which is probably from trying to aim it as he lacks confidence. One shot he took looked like a kid shooting. I really like Birtwhistle on the 1st line the kid can score plus English and Stevens playing together is interesting. They could take some pressure of Thompson. He has to be removed from EMO too. SU has to win these games they can't let Thomson keep shooting so bad every game. If he's bad again tomo then they need to sit him and let him work thru it in practice. He's still young and can fix his game but there is talent on the sideline who can be an upgrade from how he's been playing. I really would like to see McCarthy get some run on 2nd line with his cannon. Finns shot right now to McCarthys rocket is a huge upgrade. The two vets Stevens and English then McCarthy with his cannon is intriguing.

I know mentioned McCarthy but do you mean Kellogg?

 

[Cuse4455]

English plays Middie right? With his quick twitch and speed could we move him to Attack?

 

[JeremyCuse]

English plays Middie right? With his quick twitch and speed could we move him to Attack?

He's a real good middie but no he's not moving to attack.

 

[AD31]

I know mentioned McCarthy but do you mean Kellogg?

Yes sorry I meant Kellogg. Thank you

 

[AD31]

I also liked what I saw from Levine at SSDM. He's a bigger shorty too which is something we lack and plays physical. I think if he keeps it up he can bump up and play with Rice as Trujillo is still a little small and shaky. Him and Rice could be a solid top group. Then if they move English and Stevens to the 2nd line maybe they both can drop back and play some more two way. I actually think English plays better D then Stevens but having them both out there they can really push transitions too. Also I think maybe they should move Dwan up to top cover man for now. He just has more experience too then Figg so doesn't have to be for whole season but right now let Figg get more experience and not have to cover every teams best player.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

What do people think of a 1st mid line of Leo-Rhoa-Birtwistle & an all-Canadian 2nd line of English-Thomson-Stevens?

 

[OttosDad]

What do people think of a 1st mid line of Leo-Rhoa-Birtwistle & an all-Canadian 2nd line of English-Thomson-Stevens?

I like the idea of this a lot personally. My one thing I’d point out is our already weak clearing game relies on Stevens and English quite a bit. Unsure how Leo, Rhoa, Burt would fair there

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

I like the idea of this a lot personally. My one thing I’d point out is our already weak clearing game relies on Stevens and English quite a bit. Unsure how Leo, Rhoa, Burt would fair there

I thought of this & think Rhoa & Leo are both speedy/shifty/tough enough to clear. I also think neither would be too glaring of a liability if they got stuck on D as they’re both solid athletes. Honestly, Birt could likely hold his own in a worst case scenario.

I like the idea of these pairings with Leo the lefty, Birt operating on the right as he often does, & Rhoa barreling down the middle & alleys with his speed & two-handedness. The all-Canadian 2nd line would feature Finn facilitating up top & finishing in the middle, English’s sweeping speed & split dodges with his shot on the run, & Stevens as the versatile inside-outside finisher. They’d also wreak havoc with the two-man game on either side.

 

[SUlax88-09]

You raise some good points but some of your solutions aren't realistic at least as this team is currently constructed.

Zappitello is very good against speed dodgers, while Spallina doesn't have elite level speed and he isn't a Powell level dodger, I would caution taking to much away form this game. Zap erased Shellenberger last year probably the top dodging attackmen in the nation. There's very few attackmen in the country if any who are going to beat him consistently dodging 1 on 1. Your point about the rest of the attack is valid. Mule has to be more assertive dodging and Hiltz coming off picks and semi dodges has to pull the trigger more. HE gave up 2 or 3 good looks he should have ripped. Deere right now is an elite level finisher but he's less of a dodging threat then Hiltz. Putting him in isn't gonna help that aspect in anyway. Your only realistic options are Elijah-Brown or Birtwistle and I don't see either happening at least not yet.

Part of the reason SU is playing using elite ball movement as it's not a dodge heavy/ISO team. It has guys who can do it ie Joey, Leo etc and guys who are trying to hone that skill ie Rhoa. SU doesn't have an elite dodging attackmen ala Shellenberger, ONeil or Kavanaugh. Leo is probably the closest thing and he could end up at attack next year because of it. Joey can win 1 on 1 matchups, but he's more of a bull dodger, elite cover guys will always give him some trouble especially a guy like Zap whose at the top of the elite category. SU showed Rhoa and Leo can win one on one matchups so there is the ability to do it there but we do need another attackmen who can balance out Joey.

As for why Tillman didn't move a pole onto Leo or Rhoa, the answer to that is he didnt want to short English or Birtwistle, trust me if he had those two would have been attacking. Tillman wasn't being generous, there was no great 2nd player to short out of his options.

In the end it may take until next season for SU to get that second dodging attackmen when Anderson and O'farrell come in and SU can also attack the portal again.

Great points! Thank you for the thoughtful and insightful comments!

I wish I could watch Zappitello and Erksa go 1v1 in practice! That must be some match-up!

Just a few follow up thoughts:
Face-off and goalie play will not be our weak links this year.
Our defense is ok, as long as we can limit penalties, but, as you said, we’ll see how it holds up against a great offensive team. Olexo and Trujillo seem to give up too many goals, and Levine struggled last game. Rice is a solid SSDM, but we‘ll need another one that we can count on, too.
Our man-up team isn’t clicking on full cylinders, yet, due to Thomson’s shooting struggles, but I just have to believe he’ll snap out of it. How can such a dominant box lacrosse shooter struggle shooting in field lacrosse? Such a weird thing. Must be mental thing.
Our man-down team isn’t great (not just in the number of goals it gives up, which is due to our high amount of penalties, but even our percentage of EMO goals given up isn‘t great). Plus I have to agree with Carcaterra (I usually do; he should be a coach!) and his concerns about what happens when the penalty is released and then our 6 on 6 defense doesn’t have a single starter out there. We gave up a goal last game because of it, too. I’ve never seen a top D1 program do what we‘re doing. To be frank, I think this silly experiment is a fail, and we should just stop it.
Leo and Rhoa are excellent middies, so those 2 alone make our middies a threat. Although I do wonder what happens to them when they start drawing a long pole. I think teams will even pull a pole from Mule in order to get a long pole on them.
Our attack is my main concern (specifically when we play the top teams in the country). I had such high hopes for Hiltz. He had almost as good a freshman year as O’Neil, he has great vision as a passer and he also has a great wrist snap shot, so I can’t explain why he hasn’t flourished in Gait’s ball movement offense. He’s actually regressed. Mule doesn’t add much, to me. I don’t know if anyone on the bench can dodge or if we can move a middie down to attack, but we desperately need an attackman that can dodge and can initiate our offense, even if the person doesn’t score. Ball movement is SO much more effective if an attackman can beat their man or really all they have to do is just draw a slide!, and then that slide unlocks our whole offense and opens everything up for our ball movement. Spallina is such a unique player with his elite vision, phenomenal behind the back shot, and powerful legs when backing down defenders, but he just doesn’t have the speed to beat the top defenders in the country. ‘Speed kills’, and the lack of it is just tough to overcome. Which is why I think we should be doing a Lot more pick plays for Spallina when a top defender is shutting him down. Picks would free him up to then orchestrate our offense.
My other concern is that our schedule is just too tough. The ACC is obviously the best conference in the country, so I get wanting to ‘earn’ a playoff spot with non-conference games, but do we have to play every team in the Top 10? These games will be entertaining for us, as fans, but giving these stud sophomores some playoff experience (for our eventual championship run in ‘26) will help them more then playing and losing to Another Top 10 team in the regular season…

 

[AD31]

Great points! Thank you for the thoughtful and insightful comments!

I wish I could watch Zappitello and Erksa go 1v1 in practice! That must be some match-up!

Just a few follow up thoughts:
Face-off and goalie play will not be our weak links this year.
Our defense is ok, as long as we can limit penalties, but, as you said, we’ll see how it holds up against a great offensive team. Olexo and Trujillo seem to give up too many goals, and Levine struggled last game. Rice is a solid SSDM, but we‘ll need another one that we can count on, too.
Our man-up team isn’t clicking on full cylinders, yet, due to Thomson’s shooting struggles, but I just have to believe he’ll snap out of it. How can such a dominant box lacrosse shooter struggle shooting in field lacrosse? Such a weird thing. Must be mental thing.
Our man-down team isn’t great (not just in the number of goals it gives up, which is due to our high amount of penalties, but even our percentage of EMO goals given up isn‘t great). Plus I have to agree with Carcaterra (I usually do; he should be a coach!) and his concerns about what happens when the penalty is released and then our 6 on 6 defense doesn’t have a single starter out there. We gave up a goal last game because of it, too. I’ve never seen a top D1 program do what we‘re doing. To be frank, I think this silly experiment is a fail, and we should just stop it.
Leo and Rhoa are excellent middies, so those 2 alone make our middies a threat. Although I do wonder what happens to them when they start drawing a long pole. I think teams will even pull a pole from Mule in order to get a long pole on them.
Our attack is my main concern (specifically when we play the top teams in the country). I had such high hopes for Hiltz. He had almost as good a freshman year as O’Neil, he has great vision as a passer and he also has a great wrist snap shot, so I can’t explain why he hasn’t flourished in Gait’s ball movement offense. He’s actually regressed. Mule doesn’t add much, to me. I don’t know if anyone on the bench can dodge or if we can move a middie down to attack, but we desperately need an attackman that can dodge and can initiate our offense, even if the person doesn’t score. Ball movement is SO much more effective if an attackman can beat their man or really all they have to do is just draw a slide!, and then that slide unlocks our whole offense and opens everything up for our ball movement. Spallina is such a unique player with his elite vision, phenomenal behind the back shot, and powerful legs when backing down defenders, but he just doesn’t have the speed to beat the top defenders in the country. ‘Speed kills’, and the lack of it is just tough to overcome. Which is why I think we should be doing a Lot more pick plays for Spallina when a top defender is shutting him down. Picks would free him up to then orchestrate our offense.
My other concern is that our schedule is just too tough. The ACC is obviously the best conference in the country, so I get wanting to ‘earn’ a playoff spot with non-conference games, but do we have to play every team in the Top 10? These games will be entertaining for us, as fans, but giving these stud sophomores some playoff experience (for our eventual championship run in ‘26) will help them more then playing and losing to Another Top 10 team in the regular season…

Really I thought Levine looked good last game. Big kid held his own and played physical. Next to Rice he was the best SSDM last game. He kept up with his man plus used his body. I would like to see him play with Rice and drop Trujillo to 2nd line with J Spallina.