Matthew Moyer looks back on Syracuse, ahead at Vanderbilt

[NateW]

He should have stayed...

Silly that he didn’t.

 

[orange79]

There is not a kid I wanted more to succeed than Matthew Moyer.

Beyond basketball: A day spent with Syracuse basketball signee Matthew Moyer at his boarding school reveals layers off the court

 

[MikeDamone]

One thing that bothers me is Moyers comment that he was only allowed to shoot within the arc. Why don’t we recruit all shooters. Why are guys on floor with restrictions.

This is partly why our offense is always weak. We look for certain people and all teams know it. There are only 5 guys out there. You can’t be handcuffing players and if they can’t shoot why did you recruit them.

Guys designated as our non shooters are left totally open. Gotta gave some faith to keep defense honest

I agree we need to recruit shooters. I also agree with the decision to give Moyer the red light from outside the arc

 

[obliterata]

I wish he would've stayed, he's easy to root for. He'll always be an Orangeman to me too.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Matt is playing less minutes at Vanderbilt as a 2nd year player than he did here in his first year. He had a better fg% here (.529) than he does at Vanderbilt too(.410) . He’s just not a 3 point shooter and that’s okay, The worst thing would be encouraging a poor shooter to fail by putting him or asking him to shoot 3’s, a position, he’s not currently suited for. Matt should capitalize on his strengths, - rebounding being an energy guy off the bench etc, while working hard on his jump shooting, ball handling etc in practice so that over time so he and his coaches develop confidence with these proven new skills. Only wishing the best for the young man.

Matthew Moyer College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

 

[MSOrange]

Matt is playing less minutes at Vanderbilt as a 2nd year player than he did here in his first year. He had a better fg% here (.529) than he does at Vanderbilt too(.410) . He’s just not a 3 point shooter and that’s okay, The worst thing would be encouraging a poor shooter to fail by putting him or asking him to shoot 3’s, a position, he’s not currently suited for. Matt should capitalize on his strengths, - rebounding being an energy guy off the bench etc, while working hard on his jump shooting, ball handling etc in practice so that over time so he and his coaches develop confidence with these proven new skills. Only wishing the best for the young man.

Matthew Moyer College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

I'm not really sure getting immediate eligibility really worked in his favor. Seems like a year off to develop would have been beneficial. That being said, I think he can still turn into a solid contributor for Vanderbilt before all is said and done

 

[orangenirvana]

There is also a crap ton of value in a senior that averages 8 points and 6 boards, has a lot of big game experience and knows how to make the small plays that help to win ball games. We rarely have those guys. Marek seems to be the only one on the roster currently that fits into that role. Can't have 5 guys all averaging 15 and 10, role players are vital.

Exactly. Which is why I was so disappointed when Moyer decided to leave. He would've been a great role player for four years. But turns out he wasn't cut out for it. Very few are.

 

[orangenirvana]

Matt is playing less minutes at Vanderbilt as a 2nd year player than he did here in his first year. He had a better fg% here (.529) than he does at Vanderbilt too(.410) . He’s just not a 3 point shooter and that’s okay, The worst thing would be encouraging a poor shooter to fail by putting him or asking him to shoot 3’s, a position, he’s not currently suited for. Matt should capitalize on his strengths, - rebounding being an energy guy off the bench etc, while working hard on his jump shooting, ball handling etc in practice so that over time so he and his coaches develop confidence with these proven new skills. Only wishing the best for the young man.

Matthew Moyer College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Makes one wonder if he would have left SU if he knew he wouldn't have contributed any more for a 9-11 team.

The grass isn't always greener, kids.

 

[chugg21]

Matt is playing less minutes at Vanderbilt as a 2nd year player than he did here in his first year. He had a better fg% here (.529) than he does at Vanderbilt too(.410) . He’s just not a 3 point shooter and that’s okay, The worst thing would be encouraging a poor shooter to fail by putting him or asking him to shoot 3’s, a position, he’s not currently suited for. Matt should capitalize on his strengths, - rebounding being an energy guy off the bench etc, while working hard on his jump shooting, ball handling etc in practice so that over time so he and his coaches develop confidence with these proven new skills. Only wishing the best for the young man.

Matthew Moyer College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Can look at those stats in multiple ways. Compare him to Oshae who is playing the PF spot that he would be playing. They are both shooting 28% from 3 which is gross, except one kind of realizes he's not a good shooter and therefore doesn't take a bunch every game. Moyer shooting 53% from inside the arc while Oshae is at 43%. Pretty much identical from the line. Oshae grabs 1 more reb per 40 mins.

Kind of funny how numbers work. A lot of people on here think that 1 is really good and 1 wasn't even worth a roster spot.

 

[orangenirvana]

Can look at those stats in multiple ways. Compare him to Oshae who is playing the PF spot that he would be playing. They are both shooting 28% from 3 which is gross, except one kind of realizes he's not a good shooter and therefore doesn't take a bunch every game. Moyer shooting 53% from inside the arc while Oshae is at 43%. Pretty much identical from the line. Oshae grabs 1 more reb per 40 mins.

Kind of funny how numbers work. A lot of people on here think that 1 is really good and 1 wasn't even worth a roster spot.

Is the one who "kind of realizes he's not a good shooter" the one who transferred because he wasn't allowed to shoot enough?

Brissett: 1 three point shot attempt per 8.27 minutes played
Moyer: 1 three point shot attempt per 8.84 minutes played

Doesn't seem like a huge difference to me.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

I watched the last 3 minutes of the thrashing he took from Kentucky last night, and he closed out the game for Vandy. His only shot I saw was a corner 3 that just missed, he played 13 minutes, 3 pts, 3 boards, 1 foul. Vandy has yet to win in the SEC, tough environment to play in the basement of an average conference, but I am sure his attitude remains great. Good kid who will keep getting better, hopefully the team improves around him.

 

[chugg21]

Is the one who "kind of realizes he's not a good shooter" the one who transferred because he wasn't allowed to shoot enough?

Brissett: 1 three point shot attempt per 8.27 minutes played
Moyer: 1 three point shot attempt per 8.84 minutes played

Doesn't seem like a huge difference to me.

Guess it depends on how you want to look at the numbers. 1.7 3PA per game vs 4.0. Would Moyer be likely to continue putting them up at the same rate if he was playing 30+ MPG or is he getting shots up because of his more limited minutes? All up for debate, but either way we all seemed to think he was a horrific shooter and he's shooting the same % as Oshae and 10% higher inside the arc, though the sample size is small, but we can also look at last year when he shot 21% higher on those same shots. Obviously he's not taking a lot of contested jumpers like Oshae and was more of a dirty work, offense board put back type of scorer but that's an absurdly high difference in efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly would rather have Oshae, but to think one is a good starter and one doesn't deserve a roster spot is more or less stupid.

 

[Millhouse]

A degree from Newhouse is one of the best degrees of any kind from anywhere. That's why I wanted him to stay because he would be great as a sports media person. There seemed like so much ego driven things going on regarding his position on the team that what was best for him was secondary. He could have been a role player/ energy guy on this team and made all the professional contacts thru his academic work. I still wish he had been able to stay. I'm sure he will do well at Vandy, which is a great school.

this is one chance to play basketball so he's going to follow his dream. he'll get a job after that. your posts are so newhousey

 

[orangenirvana]

Guess it depends on how you want to look at the numbers. 1.7 3PA per game vs 4.0. Would Moyer be likely to continue putting them up at the same rate if he was playing 30+ MPG or is he getting shots up because of his more limited minutes? All up for debate, but either way we all seemed to think he was a horrific shooter and he's shooting the same % as Oshae and 10% higher inside the arc, though the sample size is small, but we can also look at last year when he shot 21% higher on those same shots. Obviously he's not taking a lot of contested jumpers like Oshae and was more of a dirty work, offense board put back type of scorer but that's an absurdly high difference in efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly would rather have Oshae, but to think one is a good starter and one doesn't deserve a roster spot is more or less stupid.

If we're looking at last year, we can see Brissett shot .331 from three vs. Moyer's .111.

Moyer definitely deserved a roster spot but he didn't want it. It's not like he was forced out of the program. Now he's averaging the same numbers for a 9-11 team. Hope it eventually works out for him but I'm skeptical.

 

[orangecuse]

I watched Matt last week when Vandy play UT, and tuned into yesterday's game until it was out of hand. From a pure basketball standpoint, it's certainly debatable whether Matt is a P5 player or ever will be. He redshirted his frosh year, then played some here last season and now this, so he's 3 years removed from HS. I understand many here wish him well, etc., so do I. He's at a great academic institution in Vanderbilt, so he no doubt will have a bright future, but it won't be in hoops IMO.

If I'm being 100% transparent, I do question how Matt ever landed at a top hoops school in SU. This question is purely from a basketball ability, skills, etc. position. Again, it has nothing to do with his character, as a person, etc., purely 100% basketball related. I mean after all, they come here first and foremost to play hoops on a basketball scholarship, and this is Syracuse, an alleged elite program at that.

 

[OttoMets]

A degree from Newhouse is one of the best degrees of any kind from anywhere. ...

No it isn't.

It's one of the best degrees of its kind. But there are dozens of degrees from hundreds of schools that are "better" from the perspective of criteria like intellectual rigor or career prospects. I mean, damn, right at Syracuse University I'd much rather have an MPA from Maxwell or an architecture or engineering degree, and it'd be easy to make an argument that somebody could do better at the iSchool than at Newhouse as well. As for Vanderbilt, it's a selective private university with better metrics than Syracuse. They've got plenty of excellent degree programs.

And none of that is any of my business -- or yours -- as it relates to Matt Moyer or any of the kids at any of those schools. But it's wrong to say that he made a bad decision from an academic standpoint.

 

[jgeorge322]

I'm not really sure getting immediate eligibility really worked in his favor. Seems like a year off to develop would have been beneficial. That being said, I think he can still turn into a solid contributor for Vanderbilt before all is said and done

I think he used his redshirt year at syracuse w an injury so he would lose the transfer year anyways. Matt was a RS frosh here.

 

[jgeorge322]

Can look at those stats in multiple ways. Compare him to Oshae who is playing the PF spot that he would be playing. They are both shooting 28% from 3 which is gross, except one kind of realizes he's not a good shooter and therefore doesn't take a bunch every game. Moyer shooting 53% from inside the arc while Oshae is at 43%. Pretty much identical from the line. Oshae grabs 1 more reb per 40 mins.

Kind of funny how numbers work. A lot of people on here think that 1 is really good and 1 wasn't even worth a roster spot.

oshae >>>>>>>>>>>> matt Moyer.

oshae averaged 15 and 9 as a frosh. How do you leave that stat out? Matt moyer was like playing 4 v 5 on offense. defenses focus on oshae. you think matt moyer even came up in pregame discussions among other teams?

i don't want to sound disrespectful, but you cannot make a credible argument here.

 

[jgeorge322]

Makes one wonder if he would have left SU if he knew he wouldn't have contributed any more for a 9-11 team.

The grass isn't always greener, kids.

matt moyer left because he and his family beefed with jim boeheim. the kid's dad went to the paper over an ankle injury and sent a photo of matt's bruised ankle to support his argument. this was after boeheim tossed him under the bus in a post game interview for sitting out a game. im not taking sides here, but matt moving on wasn't a 100% voluntary thing. he kind of had to and if you read the daily orange article, im thinking he was told to move on. in fact, id love to see matt's application for immediate eligibility. he didn't move any closer to home. therefore, to me, it seems most likely that he sited the beef with his head coach as a reason.

 

[chugg21]

oshae >>>>>>>>>>>> matt Moyer.

oshae averaged 15 and 9 as a frosh. How do you leave that stat out? Matt moyer was like playing 4 v 5 on offense. defenses focus on oshae. you think matt moyer even came up in pregame discussions among other teams?

i don't want to sound disrespectful, but you cannot make a credible argument here.

Pretty sure everyone would take Oshae over Moyer, not a single person has said otherwise. Not all 15 & 9's are created the same. Doing it in 38 minutes a night while shooting 35% overall from the field isn't particularly impressive. If Moyer or Marek for that matter was given 38 mins at PF instead of Oshae and attempted 13 shots per game, I don't think either would be far off of those numbers. Team probably isn't better off with it but those numbers are meaningless given that our offense is/was a mess and some guys get to pile up shots despite horrific shooting percentages.

 

[tbonezone]

hey mookie jones shot 45 % deep . who here would want him on this squad. 2nd best all time.
we drove him off. cyber bully.

 

[Cuse'91]

Kinda pissed to lose a guy that was so Orange; especially if the final straw was a certain forward who was supposed to arrive this year but then changed his mind... Losing a Orangemen for life for a complete bozo flat out sucks eggs...

 

[jgeorge322]

Pretty sure everyone would take Oshae over Moyer, not a single person has said otherwise. Not all 15 & 9's are created the same. Doing it in 38 minutes a night while shooting 35% overall from the field isn't particularly impressive. If Moyer or Marek for that matter was given 38 mins at PF instead of Oshae and attempted 13 shots per game, I don't think either would be far off of those numbers. Team probably isn't better off with it but those numbers are meaningless given that our offense is/was a mess and some guys get to pile up shots despite horrific shooting percentages.

oshae shot 33% from 3 last year. thats not horrific. he had a bad start to this year, so his percentage is down.

moyer being asked to do what oshae does would be a freaking disaster. he has zero 1 on 1 game and he'd shoot a lot worse than 33% from deep.

you said its kind of funny that people here think oshae is good and think moyer doesn't deserve a roster spot. that after comparing the two's numbers saying they were essentially the same. that is inferring that you think moyer and oshae are on the same level as players. therefore, saying "not a single person has said otherwise" isn't really true.

 

[tbonezone]

oshae also shot just 35 fg % last year overall and 38 % this year. i'd expect higher from player of his height.

 

[chugg21]

oshae shot 33% from 3 last year. thats not horrific. he had a bad start to this year, so his percentage is down.

you said its kind of funny that people here think oshae is good and think moyer doesn't deserve a roster spot. that after comparing the two's numbers saying they were essentially the same. that is inferring that you think moyer and oshae are on the same level as players. therefore, saying "not a single person has said otherwise" isn't really true.

The 33% from 3 would be ok if it wasn't combined with the mindnumbing 36% from inside the arc. Slightly better from inside this year but still way below average and now he's terrible from 3 as well on a fairly high volume. I have to imagine that he is close to or below replacement level on offense. Thank god he is a great rebounder.