Maybe now...

[bpo57]

we can stop talking about conference championships as THE deciding factor. For the 2nd year in a row the Committee made it crystal clear that is not the case.

 

[Ish88888]

we can stop talking about conference championships as THE deciding factor. For the 2nd year in a row the Committee made it crystal clear that is not the case.

True, but neither B10 team deserved. Its about the entire resume from Sept and that's what makes college football's regular season the best.

 

[TerryD]

So dies forever the idea that ND needs to join a conference and that the playoffs will force it to do so.

 

[TheCusian]

we can stop talking about conference championships as THE deciding factor. For the 2nd year in a row the Committee made it crystal clear that is not the case.

No one here has argued that.

In a close case - they use all of the available data. I think the Iowa loss was too much to overcome. But the fact that Ohio State won got them back in the conversation... Something teams that don't play in a conference championship game don't get.

This has always been my point (and last year and this year hasn't changed that): It's better to play and win your championship game than to not play in one at all.

 

[qdawgg]

So dies forever the idea that ND needs to join a conference and that the playoffs will force it to do so.

Not really because you still need to play in a conference championship to have a chance and build up your SOS.

But I could care less personally. ND won’t play for a national championship in any near future, in or out of a conference

 

[TheCusian]

So dies forever the idea that ND needs to join a conference and that the playoffs will force it to do so.

Sigh. ND Fans.

The difference isn't between Alabama and Ohio State this year. The difference is between Alabama and Clemson/Georgia/OK this year. Alabama was sweating it out with 11 wins. The teams with 1 loss and conference championships were in easily.

It's about odds. And they 100% favor teams who play in a championship game.

 

[jncuse]

I remember saying the same thing a few weeks back when scenarios here were discounting a one loss Alabama team. It probably came down to close to a 50/50 call between the two, but there are no hard and fast rules when room is left for judgment.

 

[Chip]

So dies forever the idea that ND needs to join a conference and that the playoffs will force it to do so.

Agree. They won’t ever make the playoffs regardless so why bother.

 

[TerryD]

ND went 12-0 in 2012, 10-2 in 2015 and 9-3 this year. So, I think that ND can make the playoffs.

But either way, independence is the way to remain.

 

[TerryD]

Sigh. ND Fans.

The difference isn't between Alabama and Ohio State this year. The difference is between Alabama and Clemson/Georgia/OK this year. Alabama was sweating it out with 11 wins. The teams with 1 loss and conference championships were in easily.

It's about odds. And they 100% favor teams who play in a championship game.

You can spin it any way you like, but the fact is that non-champs (and non championship game participants) made it two years in a row.

Odds? Who always wants things the easiest way, anyhow?

 

[ForCuseSake]

ND went 12-0 in 2012, 10-2 in 2015 and 9-3 this year. So, I think that ND can make the playoffs.

But either way, independence is the way to remain.

I’m sure ND will enjoy its independence.

No 9-3, 10-2, or even 11-1 ND team will make the current playoffs without a conference championship. The odds of all P-5 conference champions having 2 or more losses in the same season is close to nil.

Multiple 2-3 loss conference champions with a 1 or no loss ND team is the only path to the playoffs for the Irish.

And ND fans accept this; as well as most of the college football universe. Everybody should be happy.

ND continues its 30 year return to glory and haters enjoy their minimal chance of competing for a NC.

 

[bpo57]

No one here has argued that.

In a close case - they use all of the available data. I think the Iowa loss was too much to overcome. But the fact that Ohio State won got them back in the conversation... Something teams that don't play in a conference championship game don't get.

This has always been my point (and last year and this year hasn't changed that): It's better to play and win your championship game than to not play in one at all.

My point was not really aimed at you. I get your point, particularly your last sentence. Our discussion was specifically related to ND. To me it's simple for ND, if they win all but one they'll get in 9 times out of ten because of strength of schedule regardless of a conference championship. If they lose two they'll be bounced 9.5 times out of ten.

I very much disagree with your first sentence. There have been numerous people on this board that have cited conference championships as a be all end all sort of thing. Clearly it's not. What I've said is they take the four best teams based on the info they have. Conference championships are an important factor but only just one factor.

 

[bpo57]

Not really because you still need to play in a conference championship to have a chance and build up your SOS.

But I could care less personally. ND won’t play for a national championship in any near future, in or out of a conference

Lol have you been paying attention at all? OSU last year and Bama this year - neither one played for a conference championship.

 

[orange79]

There have been numerous people on this board that have cited conference championships as a be all end all sort of thing. Clearly it's not. What I've said is they take the four best teams based on the info they have. Conference championships are an important factor but only just one factor.

I was stating my preference that the conference champions be in, not saying what I thought the committee would do. Just personal preference. 6-team playoff, 5 champs and an at-large. Or 8 teams, 5 champs and 3 at-large. Hard to argue a deserving team would be left out under either of those scenarios.

 

[bpo57]

I remember saying the same thing a few weeks back when scenarios here were discounting a one loss Alabama team. It probably came down to close to a 50/50 call between the two, but there are no hard and fast rules when room is left for judgment.

Ironically that's been my point, too. They take the four best teams and when you have uneven strength of schedule and different divisions within a conference then it's going to come down to total body of work and not whether you won your conference championship. Of course that will come down to the Committee's judgment, which is fine by me. I trust they'll get the 4 best teams in there most of the time.

 

[bpo57]

I was stating my preference that the conference champions be in, not saying what I thought the committee would do. Just personal preference. 6-team playoff, 5 champs and an at-large. Or 8 teams, 5 champs and 3 at-large. Hard to argue a deserving team would be left out under either of those scenarios. View attachment 116553

I agree if you expand it that it will reduce controversy and eliminate unfairness. But as long as you just have four teams then I want to see the four best teams. Just going by conference champions would often insure you do not get the four best teams. Some conferences are much better than others. I bet we could go back over 20 years and find numerous instances where very deserving teams would have been left out if one were fixated on only inviting conference champions in terms of the top four.

 

[bpo57]

I’m sure ND will enjoy its independence.

No 9-3, 10-2, or even 11-1 ND team will make the current playoffs without a conference championship. The odds of all P-5 conference champions having 2 or more losses in the same season is close to nil.

Multiple 2-3 loss conference champions with a 1 or no loss ND team is the only path to the playoffs for the Irish.

And ND fans accept this; as well as most of the college football universe. Everybody should be happy.

ND continues its 30 year return to glory and haters enjoy their minimal chance of competing for a NC.

That's ridiculous. If ND had gone 11-1 this year (lone loss UGA) not only would they have been invited but they would have been at least a 3 seed and probably a 2 seed. They were already at #3 prior to the Miami game. Good Lord there are some slow learners on this board. Total body of work, strength of schedule are what matters. If ND plays a strong schedule (and they usually do) and they go 11-1 then the odds are heavy in their favor they get in.

 

[orange79]

I agree if you expand it that it will reduce controversy and eliminate unfairness. But as long as you just have four teams then I want to see the four best teams.

Totally agree.

 

[ForCuseSake]

That's ridiculous. If ND had gone 11-1 this year (lone loss UGA) not only would they have been invited but they would have been at least a 3 seed and probably a 2 seed. They were already at #3 prior to the Miami game. Good Lord there are some slow learners on this board. Total body of work, strength of schedule are what matters. If ND plays a strong schedule (and they usually do) and they go 11-1 then the odds are heavy in their favor they get in.

We all know you’re a big ND fan.

There’s no way on God’s green earth an 11-1 ND is picked over 12-1 defending nat’l champ and ACC champ Clemson, 12-1 Big XII conf champ Oklahoma, 12-1 SEC conf champ UGA and 11-1 Alabama.

Who do you think the committee cuts out to include your mythical 2017 11-1 ND team?

 

[TerryD]

I’m sure ND will enjoy its independence.

No 9-3, 10-2, or even 11-1 ND team will make the current playoffs without a conference championship. The odds of all P-5 conference champions having 2 or more losses in the same season is close to nil.

Multiple 2-3 loss conference champions with a 1 or no loss ND team is the only path to the playoffs for the Irish.

And ND fans accept this; as well as most of the college football universe. Everybody should be happy.

ND continues its 30 year return to glory and haters enjoy their minimal chance of competing for a NC.

My point was that ND would have gotten in in 2012 and were very close in 2015.

You have no crystal ball regarding a future 11-1 ND, so forgive me if I disagree with you.


"You have to play in a conference championship to compete". That argument is dead.

That's patently not true after this year. Given the chance to prioritize a conference championship game as somehow more important than any ole game, the committee clearly said "it doesn't matter." If it had mattered, OSU would be going.

So no more nonsense about how Notre Dame needs to join a conference, or how an 11-1 Notre Dame can't make the playoffs.

 

[upperdeck]

if they were 11-1 and beaten miami/usc/standford soundly they would be the 2-3-4 seed, but poll wise they would probably be ahead of everyone other than clemson.

 

[ForCuseSake]

My point was that ND would have gotten in in 2012 and were very close in 2015.

You have no crystal ball regarding a future 11-1 ND, so forgive me if I disagree with you.

No forgiveness needed. It’s no sin to disagree with me.

11-1 ND will always have a chance. My point is that they’ll need the stars to align with 2 or 3 multiple loss conference champions to get in.

Not impossible but very difficult. And this is accepted by ND fans who cherish independence and haters alike.

 

[TerryD]

No forgiveness needed. It’s no sin to disagree with me.

11-1 ND will always have a chance. My point is that they’ll need the stars to align with 2 or 3 multiple loss conference champions to get in.

Not impossible but very difficult. And this is accepted by ND fans who cherish independence and haters alike.

I still think that an 11-1 ND can get in over a 12-1 conference champ. So, we still disagree and I don't accept that it is "very difficult" to get in.

Most ND fans and the ND administration don't think so, either, not that it matters. ND football is not joining a conference unless the playoffs are legally mandated as P4 conference champs only.

 

[ForCuseSake]

I still think that an 11-1 ND can get in over a 12-1 conference champ. So, we still disagree and I don't accept that it is "very difficult" to get in.

Most ND fans and the ND administration don't think so, either, not that it matters. ND football is not joining a conference unless the playoffs are legally mandated as P4 conference champs only.

I don’t see a CFP committee ever selecting an 11-1 ND at the expense of an 11-1 PAC, SEC, B1G or ACC conf champ (BigXII is most likely).

So in that scenario the stars would have to align for ND to have two 2 loss conference champions and be 11-1. I think that’s pretty difficult and that’s where we disagree.

There are only 8 more chances for our theories to be tested. I expect the CFP to expand in 2025 regardless.

Edit - Nowhere in my posts on this topic have I claimed ND needs to join a conference. I couldn’t care less about Irish conference affiliation.

It’s fine and dandy they chose the ACC but the longer they wait to join for football the smaller the cash increase to SU’s coffers will be.

I hope the Irish stay independent forever because they’ll be further isolated by the big conference power brokers.

 

[dasher]

You can spin it any way you like, but the fact is that non-champs (and non championship game participants) made it two years in a row.

Odds? Who always wants things the easiest way, anyhow?

But the committee didn't take an independent. That is the key. The SEC has their lobby. As do the other leagues. No one will be lobbying for ND.