Maybe now...

[cuse309]

Not really because you still need to play in a conference championship to have a chance and build up your SOS.

But I could care less personally. ND won’t play for a national championship in any near future, in or out of a conference

Except for Bama in 2017, Ohio State in 2016, Oklahoma in 2015. In other words, only 1 out of 4 years were the cfb playoff comprised exclusively of teams that played in and/or won their conference championship game.

 

[TerryD]

But the committee didn't take an independent. That is the key. The SEC has their lobby. As do the other leagues. No one will be lobbying for ND.

More spin and speculation, not fact.

 

[dasher]

More spin and speculation, not fact.

Well, you haven't supplied a fact either. ND has yet to be selected by these guys.

 

[TheCusian]

I still think that an 11-1 ND can get in over a 12-1 conference champ. So, we still disagree and I don't accept that it is "very difficult" to get in.

Most ND fans and the ND administration don't think so, either, not that it matters. ND football is not joining a conference unless the playoffs are legally mandated as P4 conference champs only.

There is no way this happens. No. Way.

 

[orange79]

There is no way this happens. No. Way.

Agreed. Up until that post, Terry was making legitimate points. But I can't conceive of a scenario in which 11-1 ND gets in over a 12-1 conference champ. Gets in at 11-1? Sure. Definitely possible. Beats out a 12-1 champ? Uh uh.

 

[TerryD]

Agreed. Up until that post, Terry was making legitimate points. But I can't conceive of a scenario in which 11-1 ND gets in over a 12-1 conference champ. Gets in at 11-1? Sure. Definitely possible. Beats out a 12-1 champ? Uh uh.

Like most things in life, it all depends. Not saying it is a certainty, but it is a possibility. That is all ND wants.

 

[storange]

So dies forever the idea that ND needs to join a conference and that the playoffs will force it to do so.

To be honest I could give a crap about ND. They don't need us nor do we need them.

 

[TheCusian]

Like most things in life, it all depends. Not saying it is a certainty, but it is a possibility. That is all ND wants.

Which is fair. If ND is ok with reduced odds, you’d think their fans would cede that point more often.

It’s not an equal chance. I’m ok with that

 

[orangecuse]

No forgiveness needed. It’s no sin to disagree with me.

11-1 ND will always have a chance. My point is that they’ll need the stars to align with 2 or 3 multiple loss conference champions to get in.

Not impossible but very difficult. And this is accepted by ND fans who cherish independence and haters alike.

"That's funny right there!" Keeping it real, the only thing ND and its fans cherish "independently" is the $$$, not its independence. If the 'holier than thou' institution did, it wouldn't have sold its righteous soul & align its other programs (including hoops) within a conference as it has for years now. ND & hypocrisy are synonymous.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Brian Kelly killed a kid at Notre Dame.

 

[HyattsCuse]

I mean I get this is all opinion, but this is a no-brainer. Had ND beaten Miami and Stanford, they would easily be in over Alabama this year. As bpo said, they were already in the CFP top 4 going into Miami. They would not have fallen out of the top 4 had they not lost again. How can this even be disputed?

What is your criteria for Alabama miraculously jumping over a mythical 2017 11-1 ND team with it's lone loss to GA?

We all know you’re a big ND fan.

There’s no way on God’s green earth an 11-1 ND is picked over 12-1 defending nat’l champ and ACC champ Clemson, 12-1 Big XII conf champ Oklahoma, 12-1 SEC conf champ UGA and 11-1 Alabama.

Who do you think the committee cuts out to include your mythical 2017 11-1 ND team?

 

[ForCuseSake]

I mean I get this is all opinion, but this is a no-brainer. Had ND beaten Miami and Stanford, they would easily be in over Alabama this year. As bpo said, they were already in the CFP top 4 going into Miami. They would not have fallen out of the top 4 had they not lost again. How can this even be disputed?

What is your criteria for Alabama miraculously jumping over a mythical 2017 11-1 ND team with it's lone loss to GA?

So Miami ends the year losing 3 of 4 and getting its doors blown off in the ACC championship game.

And you don’t believe the committee would use that to ding ND’s SOS enough to pick Alabama?

Edit - Auburn catapulted to #2 after the Iron Bowl and UGA wins. Wiscy was undefeated and Clemson and OU were 1 loss teams. No way ND’s late season Navy and Stanford wins keep them in the top 4.

Beating Stanford and Miami wouldn’t put ND “easily” in over Alabama. The PAC 12 stunk this year and Miami’s season ending slide would confirm the ACC was Clemson owning everyone else when their QB isn’t injured.

You haven’t been paying attention to college football if you don’t see that the committee would do all it could to include Alabama over ND. Especially if the seeding risked a rematch of UGA/ND when Alabama didn’t get a crack at UGA in 2017.

I’m not saying it’s right; it’s more likely than an 11-1 ND getting picked.

 

[TheCusian]

The 11-1 teams will be behind the 12-1 Conference Champs no matter what. Undefeated P5 is an auto-bid.

If the argument is "ND can compete for the last spot with other 11-1 teams" then, yeah sure.

In other words, if your'e ND:
Option A: Go undefeated. You're in*!
Option B: Go 11-1 and hope your schedule is enough to get that one spot that might be there

If you're any other P5 team:
Option A: Go undefeated. You're in!
Option B: Win your conference title game with 1 loss. Go 12-1. You're in!
Option C: Lose your conference title game with 1 loss. Hope your schedule is enough to beat out other 12-1 teams or maybe the other 11-1 teams.
Option D: Go 11-1 and hope your schedule is enough to get that one spot that might be there
Option E: Have 2 losses (one being in the conference title game), but play a very tough schedule to get that one spot that might be there (11-2 vs 11-1)


*Unlike playing in a P5 conference, it's not guaranteed your schedule will be good enough. It's likely that your traditional games (USC, Stanford, Mich State) + your ACC schedule will be enough. I don't see many years where that's not the case. But it's possible. I'd say 9 times out of 10, going undefeated is enough with a traditional ND schedule.

 

[HyattsCuse]

I guess agree to disagree. This is all hypothetical anyway. Had ND won its remaining games and everything else played out the same way, ND would be in the CFP easily.

They were at #3 in the CFP going into the Miami game. They would have jumped to at least #2 with a win versus an undefeated Miami since Georgia lost the same week. While that win may have lost of its luster the way Miami finished, Miami is still a top 20 team. I don't see a scenario where they go from comfortably #2 in the CFP and then beating a solid Navy team and a top 15 team in Stanford to all of a sudden being beaten out by Alabama in the final CFP rankings.

I get and have agreed in the past with the "Alabama gets all the favoritism" narrative, but ND would not have been the team sweating it out had they run the table with that SoS and the one loss being by 1 point versus the SEC Champion.

So Miami ends the year losing 3 of 4 and getting its doors blown off in the ACC championship game.

And you don’t believe the committee would use that to ding ND’s SOS enough to pick Alabama?

Edit - Auburn catapulted to #2 after the Iron Bowl and UGA wins. Wiscy was undefeated and Clemson and OU were 1 loss teams. No way ND’s late season Navy and Stanford wins keep them in the top 4.

Beating Stanford and Miami wouldn’t put ND “easily” in over Alabama. The PAC 12 stunk this year and Miami’s season ending slide would confirm the ACC was Clemson owning everyone else when their QB isn’t injured.

You haven’t been paying attention to college football if you don’t see that the committee would do all it could to include Alabama over ND. Especially if the seeding risked a rematch of UGA/ND when Alabama didn’t get a crack at UGA in 2017.

I’m not saying it’s right; it’s more likely than an 11-1 ND getting picked.

 

[TheCusian]

I guess agree to disagree. This is all hypothetical anyway. Had ND won its remaining games and everything else played out the same way, ND would be in the CFP easily.

They were at #3 in the CFP going into the Miami game. They would have jumped to at least #2 with a win versus an undefeated Miami since Georgia lost the same week. While that win may have lost of its luster the way Miami finished, Miami is still a top 20 team. I don't see a scenario where they go from comfortably #2 in the CFP and then beating a solid Navy team and a top 15 team in Stanford to all of a sudden being beaten out by Alabama in the final CFP rankings.

I get and have agreed in the past with the "Alabama gets all the favoritism" narrative, but ND would not have been the team sweating it out had they run the table with that SoS and the one loss being by 1 point versus the SEC Champion.

That's not the point.

This year *it may* have worked out. But Alabama had to sweat it out for the last spot. So would have a ND team with one loss. But if you hypothetically asked both 11-1 teams if they wanted to play an extra game vs a top 20 team to shore things up - they'd both take it in a heatbeat. Alabama and other P5 teams have that advantage built in and available to them most years. ND doesn't.

 

[HyattsCuse]

That's not the point.

This year *it may* have worked out. But Alabama had to sweat it out for the last spot. So would have a ND team with one loss. But if you hypothetically asked both 11-1 teams if they wanted to play an extra game vs a top 20 team to shore things up - they'd both take it in a heatbeat. Alabama and other P5 teams have that advantage built in and available to them most years. ND doesn't.

Yep, I agree with the conference championship/extra game being advantageous. Georgia took full advantage of it. They'd be on the outside looking in had it not been for the SEC title game.

I was merely responding to a poster, that posed the question, "There’s no way on God’s green earth an 11-1 ND is picked over 12-1 defending nat’l champ and ACC champ Clemson, 12-1 Big XII conf champ Oklahoma, 12-1 SEC conf champ UGA and 11-1 Alabama. Who do you think the committee cuts out to include your mythical 2017 11-1 ND team?" I gave my opinion to answer his question.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Yep, I agree with the conference championship/extra game being advantageous. Georgia took full advantage of it. They'd be on the outside looking in had it not been for the SEC title game.

I was merely responding to a poster, that posed the question, "There’s no way on God’s green earth an 11-1 ND is picked over 12-1 defending nat’l champ and ACC champ Clemson, 12-1 Big XII conf champ Oklahoma, 12-1 SEC conf champ UGA and 11-1 Alabama. Who do you think the committee cuts out to include your mythical 2017 11-1 ND team?" I gave my opinion to answer his question.

Picture an axis that has an origin where “Conference Affiliation” (X axis) meets “W/L results” (Y axis). At 0,0, you have the undefeated conference champion and at say 100,100 you have the winless independent.

Notre Dame will need an act of God combined with the luck of the Irish to achieve the proper coordinates on this plane to make the current iteration of the CFP.

Clinging to independence + Mediocre on- field results = Diminshed influence over time.

This is either completely accepted by ND fans who value their independence or ignored by the Golden Domers who believe they’re still returning to glory.

Either way, I couldn’t give a fig. ND will never make the current playoff format if there are fewer than two 2 loss conference champs and/or two 1 loss SEC behemoths.

 

[cuse309]

Like most things in life, it all depends. Not saying it is a certainty, but it is a possibility. That is all ND wants.

Says the guy with an Irish flag for his avatar...

 

[HyattsCuse]

Holy sensationalism, lol! :rolling:

Again, not disputing that P5 schools have an inherent advantage with conference championships and conference affiliation in general most years. That's obvious, but your "act of god on gods green earth, luck of the Irish, axis coordinates, yada yada" makes no sense when just this season, ND controlled their own destiny.

They most likely would have been #2 in the CFP rankings after a Miami win and Georgia losing the same week. So you really think they would have dropped at least 3 spots out of the top 4 by beating Navy and Stanford while Alabama lost to Auburn and played freakin Mercer? I'd love to see an example in the history of college sports where a team ranked 1 or 2 in a poll dropped three spots WITHOUT losing.

They lost a golden opportunity this year. Given the way things played out, they were in if they took care of business. No "act of god" needed.

Picture an axis that has an origin where “Conference Affiliation” (X axis) meets “W/L results” (Y axis). At 0,0, you have the undefeated conference champion and at say 100,100 you have the winless independent.

Notre Dame will need an act of God combined with the luck of the Irish to achieve the proper coordinates on this plane to make the current iteration of the CFP.

Clinging to independence + Mediocre on- field results = Diminshed influence over time.

 

[Alsacs]

If Clemson, Oklahoma, Georgia all went 12-1.
Wisconsin went 13-0.
Notre Dame at 11-1 is out.

Notre Dame I wish would go away from our schedule. The fanbase thinks way to highly of themselves.

Keep your independent and think it’s 1975 still.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Holy sensationalism, lol! :rolling:

Again, not disputing that P5 schools have an inherent advantage with conference championships and conference affiliation in general most years. That's obvious, but your "act of god on gods green earth, luck of the Irish, axis coordinates, yada yada" makes no sense when just this season, ND controlled their own destiny.

They most likely would have been #2 in the CFP rankings after a Miami win and Georgia losing the same week. So you really think they would have dropped at least 3 spots out of the top 4 by beating Navy and Stanford while Alabama lost to Auburn and played freakin Mercer? I'd love to see an example in the history of college sports where a team ranked 1 or 2 in a poll dropped three spots WITHOUT losing.

They lost a golden opportunity this year. Given the way things played out, they were in if they took care of business. No "act of god" needed.

The point you and bpo, like the other deluded ND super fans, aren’t getting is that ND doesn’t control its destiny in the current playoff structure.

The highest ND reached was 3 in the playoff rankings. No way they stay at 3 after #1
Bama loses to #6 Auburn (Auburn jumped to 2 & Miami fell from 2 to 7) with 1 loss Clemson, UGA, OU and undefeated Wiscy sitting in the top 5.

That is the opposite of controlling their destiny.

You claimed they would’ve made the playoffs easily. Notre Dame will never easily make the playoffs, period.

They will require help in the form of multiple 2 loss conference champions and a down SEC both in a year they don’t lose to any of their ACC or PAC opponents.

Sorry Rudy, that ain’t gonna happen.

 

[nzm136]

Brian Kelly killed a kid at Notre Dame.

You're right-ish. I forgot about that.

 

[CuseOnly]

My point was that ND would have gotten in in 2012 and were very close in 2015.

You have no crystal ball regarding a future 11-1 ND, so forgive me if I disagree with you.


"You have to play in a conference championship to compete". That argument is dead.

That's patently not true after this year. Given the chance to prioritize a conference championship game as somehow more important than any ole game, the committee clearly said "it doesn't matter." If it had mattered, OSU would be going.

So no more nonsense about how Notre Dame needs to join a conference, or how an 11-1 Notre Dame can't make the playoffs.

I don't agree that the argument is dead, I think it is alive and well which is why we are arguing it now.

The CCG is almost like a playoff in itself giving teams that are on the bubble of getting in a chance to puff up their resume or fail. Or elevate teams in the conversation, a "last chance mind changer for the committee."

Point is that ND has excluded itself from that opportunity by choice.

It will be extremely difficult for a 1 loss ND to get in over a team with a similar resume that played an extra game for a conference championship. We saw that with TCU and Baylor from the Big 12 (2014-2015), both had one loss and very good resumes and were both left out, no CCG. Would a 1 loss ND have gotten in that year, not likely at all. What makes you think that a 1 loss ND has more of a chance than those teams in any given year??

IMO - ND has zero chance unless they are undefeated and have a resume commensurate with other teams that would get in. OR with 1 loss having played 5 or 6 highly ranked teams soundly thumping them all. In other words they need a resume that cannot be ignored, which honestly, all 4 P5 conferences will have after playing the top teams in certain divisions.

 

[TerryD]

Says the guy with an Irish flag for his avatar...

A guy who is a dual citizen as well.

 

[cuse309]

The point you and bpo, like the other deluded ND super fans, aren’t getting is that ND doesn’t control its destiny in the current playoff structure.

The highest ND reached was 3 in the playoff rankings. No way they stay at 3 after #1
Bama loses to #6 Auburn (Auburn jumped to 2 & Miami fell from 2 to 7) with 1 loss Clemson, UGA, OU and undefeated Wiscy sitting in the top 5.

That is the opposite of controlling their destiny.

You claimed they would’ve made the playoffs easily. Notre Dame will never easily make the playoffs, period.

They will require help in the form of multiple 2 loss conference champions and a down SEC both in a year they don’t lose to any of their ACC or PAC opponents.

Sorry Rudy, that ain’t gonna happen.

LOL!