Maybe our depth helps tonite...

[iommi]

All year we've been lauded because of our depth. Here we are against a quality opponent in their gym, only two days removed from our last game. Maybe this is a game where we wear our opponent out. Don't forget, yes, Louisville is home but they had a road game on Saturday. Louisville does not have the quantity or quality of depth that we do. I don't see MCW playing much at all tonite but I think we still use a 4-man bench and hopefully we can pull this out with some late-game heroics.

I'm begging Louisville to go full court press on us. That would play into our hands. Personally, I have not been too impressed with Louisville's zone. It's decent but not great. I think CJ will do damage inside the paint with his 12-15 footers. On the other side, I want us to cut off their threes and make them shoot from inside the paint. If Deng beats us tonite, so be it...better than Kuric draining every three in sight like he usually seems to do. By the way, is this Kuric's 8th year there? lol.

LGO.

 

[moqui]

SU's depth is a fiction

In the 2nd half of close games, JB rides 5 guys and spot subs Keita and Triche only when absolutely necessary

He'll play 9 or 10 guys only when it is a blow out

 

[Knicks411]

Agree with Moqui. Last game, Christmas played 2 minutes, Southerland 4, and MCW 1.

 

[iommi]

You're probably right. Dirty's in the doghouse for good reason. He's been useless for about 5 or 6 weeks (ND game being the one exception). You're right, he rides Dion, Scoop, Kris, Fab and CJ.

 

[iommi]

One thing I will say, Moqui, is that JB does give BT meaningful minutes if he earns them by being very aggressive and effective offensively.

 

[jdubs30]

SU's depth is a fiction

In the 2nd half of close games, JB rides 5 guys and spot subs Keita and Triche only when absolutely necessary

He'll play 9 or 10 guys only when it is a blow out

How many coaches will play 9 or 10 in close 2nd half games? The depth is very much there, but in close games most coaches will go with their best 6 or 7.

I think Southerland, BT and MCW all get more minutes tonight.

 

[moqui]

You're probably right. Dirty's in the doghouse for good reason. He's been useless for about 5 or 6 weeks (ND game being the one exception). You're right, he rides Dion, Scoop, Kris, Fab and CJ.

I think you are wrong on Dirty - he isn't in the doghouse, and he hasn't been "useless" - he's been excellent defensively when he has been in the game. His problem is that he is a pure three, and he is just stuck behind the best all around player on the team, a senior co-captain, Wooden Award candidate and likely 1st or 2nd team All Big East selection. JB tends to play guys like that heavy, heavy minutes. Dirty will get a couple minutes in the first half to give Kris a little blow, but he won't play at all in the 2nd half unless (a) there is a big SU lead or (b) Kris is in foul trouble (or, heaven forbid, injured).

JB will never play Kris and Dirty at the same time against good teams. Can't play two perimeter oriented forwards together on a rebounding- challenged team.

 

[OttoMets]

Not only will our depth not help us tonight, but I wouldn't be surprised if we're sluggish. Overtime game on Wednesday with virtually six guys playing the whole way, close game on Saturday with a six-man second-half lineup, and then the quick turnaround to the Monday game after having to travel.

Tonight's the most difficult game of the year so far, and likely the most physically challenging.

 

[Knicks411]

I think you are wrong on Dirty - he isn't in the doghouse, and he hasn't been "useless" - he's been excellent defensively when he has been in the game. His problem is that he is a pure three, and he is just stuck behind the best all around player on the team, a senior co-captain, Wooden Award candidate and likely 1st or 2nd team All Big East selection. JB tends to play guys like that heavy, heavy minutes. Dirty will get a couple minutes in the first half to give Kris a little blow, but he won't play at all in the 2nd half unless (a) there is a big SU lead or (b) Kris is in foul trouble (or, heaven forbid, injured).

JB will never play Kris and Dirty at the same time against good teams. Can't play two perimeter oriented forwards together on a rebounding- challenged team.

To be fair, I know you are a fan of Southerland, but he also hasn't been able to make a shot for the last 5 or 6 weeks. Selective endpoints, but since the Marquette game, he's 22-64 from the field, and 6-32 from 3. He was a lot more minutes in the middle of this cold streak, though part of that I guess was the Fab injury. (His 2 biggest minute totals in BE play were ND and Cincy). And you definitely see a pattern that the better the opponent, the fewer minutes he gets. But all that being said, while Kris is a huge reason he's getting limited minutes, and he is chipping in with other stuff (7.6 rebounds per 40, 1.8 blocks per 40 over the same period), I think he would be getting more run if he was shooting anywhere close to what he was before.

 

[iommi]

I disagree, Moqui, on Southerland being a good defender. How is he a good defender? He's not great on the slides. He doesn't rebound well at all (defensive rebounding is a big part of defense). And on offense, as Knicks411 said, he hasn't been able to hit the broad side of a barn lately. If he's not making his threes, he is useless IMO and he hasn't been making them. He's got to be one of the worst rebounders I've ever seen for a guy with his size and leaping ability. He comes off as lazy to me on defense and on the boards. When he's from deep he's a weapon, but that rarely happens once we get out of playing the weak teams of the early season non-conference schedule.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

SU's depth is a fiction

In the 2nd half of close games, JB rides 5 guys and spot subs Keita and Triche only when absolutely necessary

He'll play 9 or 10 guys only when it is a blow out

Exactly.. I expect our main 5 to close out the last 12 mins of every game going forward, so long as its close. Foul trouble being the only caveat. Triche, Southy, MCW, Christmas will just be spectators.

 

[rrlbees]

One thing I will say, Moqui, is that JB does give BT meaningful minutes if he earns them by being very aggressive and effective offensively.

imo, that's an old wives tale.

 

[moqui]

I disagree, Moqui, on Southerland being a good defender. How is he a good defender? He's not great on the slides. He doesn't rebound well at all (defensive rebounding is a big part of defense). And on offense, as Knicks411 said, he hasn't been able to hit the broad side of a barn lately. If he's not making his threes, he is useless IMO and he hasn't been making them. He's got to be one of the worst rebounders I've ever seen for a guy with his size and leaping ability. He comes off as lazy to me on defense and on the boards. When he's from deep he's a weapon, but that rarely happens once we get out of playing the weak teams of the early season non-conference schedule.

I think your analysis is completely wrong, and it is certainly not supported by the numbers. his defensive rebounding percentage of 15.0 is better than both Kris (11.6) and CJ (14.7). Luke Winn's defensive charting of the 15 biggest games (up to that point) had him just a nudge behind Kris (and well ahead of CJ) on defensive efficiency. If anything, it has improved - in the last two games he has been on the floor for 15 defensive possessions during which the team has surrendered just 8 points.

no numbers to support this, but I think his defensive rotations are the quickest of all the forwards. I watch closely for these things.

His offense is definitely in the tank, but that is partly because he does not get a chance to play through the slumps.

And you definitely see a pattern that the better the opponent, the fewer minutes he gets.

the lurking variable there is Kris, and JB's 36 year history of riding his veteran stars. The better the opponent, the fewer minutes all of the second stringers - including Triche and Keita. It is not a reflection of their play or their ability, but on JB's tendencies. When things get tough, we all revert to type, and JB's type is a tight rotation that piles heavy minutes on his stars.

 

[pfister1]

Louisville appears to be as deep, if not deeper than we are, with Blackshear back.

Blackshear played 20 minutes off of the bench in his first action of the year last game against WVU.

Setting him aside, they have six guys averaging more than 20 mpg and an additional guy averaging more than 12.5 mpg in 20+ games.

With Blackshear playing 8 different guys played 16 minutes or more against WVU.


Of our vaunted 10 deep roster, we have two guys that are exceptionally unlikely to see more than three to five minutes each (MCW and RAK) another guy that more than likely won't play more than that in Dirty and Keita who is highly unlikely to get more than about 12 minutes unless Melo gets into big foul trouble.

 

[iommi]

Moqui, I'm not going to argue with you over stats but James Southerland is not a good defender or rebounder. I doubt you'll have too many posters on this board disagree with me. He's a one-trick pony. He just jacks threes and he's been awful at that for two months.

Kris needs to improve as well on the glass. He should be averaging over 7 a game at the very least.

 

[Knicks411]

the lurking variable there is Kris, and JB's 36 year history of riding his veteran stars. The better the opponent, the fewer minutes all of the second stringers - including Triche and Keita. It is not a reflection of their play or their ability, but on JB's tendencies. When things get tough, we all revert to type, and JB's type is a tight rotation that piles heavy minutes on his stars.

I definitely agree to an extent to what you are saying (I'd play Kris over James too), but the fact of the matter is James has been shooting really poorly for the last 6 weeks or so. I think he might be getting some more minutes if he was shooting it at 40% from the 3. There would definitely be a cap on his minutes though.

As for rebounding, Southerland has the second best defensive reboounding% on the team. (in other news, we are terrible at defensive rebounding).

 

[iommi]

Wow, these stats are amazing to me. Does Southerland get credit for rebounds that seem to go off his hands out of bounds??? I guess I'm wrong but wow...I rarely see the guy catch anything off the defensive glass and I've watched every game this year very closely.

 

[ROCorange]

Moqui, I'm not going to argue with you over stats but James Southerland is not a good defender or rebounder. I doubt you'll have too many posters on this board disagree with me. He's a one-trick pony. He just jacks threes and he's been awful at that for two months.

Kris needs to improve as well on the glass. He should be averaging over 7 a game at the very least.

I too used to have a bias to think JSouth is weak on the glass but he actually surprised me more often than not on the boards this season (back when he used to get meaningful minutes).

 

[Madbiker]

You mean the depth where we play 7 guys in any close game ans and "iron 5" the last 15 minutes?

 

[rrlbees]

Exactly.. I expect our main 5 to close out the last 12 mins of every game going forward, so long as its close. Foul trouble being the only caveat. Triche, Southy, MCW, Christmas will just be spectators.

Guess not.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Guess not.

I just posted in your thread about this too... was it just because Scoop was so bad? Either way...maybe JB has no iron clad rules this year.

 

[iommi]

I think our depth showed up tonite. I think he's been awful lately but we even got a nice contribution from #43 tonight.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Dirty finally got away from the three point line and moved his butt. You get a couple of easy hoops and the games gets easier. Triche finally made a couple of big shots too.

 

[iommi]

Dirty finally got away from the three point line and moved his butt. You get a couple of easy hoops and the games gets easier. Triche finally made a couple of big shots too.

Dirty's follow-his-own dunk was a thing of beauty.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Dirty's follow-his-own dunk was a thing of beauty.

Huge play.