Orangeyes
R.I.P Dan
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McNabb believes he's a Hall of Famer
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KaiserUEO
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well, ill say this...i dont think Aikman is a HOF qb. :noidea:
and in their primes, if i had to pick 1 or the other...id probably take #5. the thing is, with Aikman at least you know he would work hard in both practice and the weight room, which seemed to be 2 areas of kryptonite for mcnabb.
Oh Lord
I hear that and wonder how true it is/was regarding the work ethic. It's really too bad if it is, I heard he really liked his beer while at SU.
jekelish
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The reason I think you could argue McNabb is at least a borderline Hall of Famer is the fact that Jim Kelly is in, and his numbers and McNabb's numbers are almost identical (except McNabb has much better rushing numbers, and of course Kelly went to four Super Bowls but never won).
kingtidge
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This^^^^^^
IthacaMatt
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He's close. He's kind of a Kellen Winslow kind of player in my mind - never quite elite, never a Super Bowl champ, but a really, really good player.
OrangeCrush22
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He can hang is hat on being the second best black QB ever, and a borderline hall of famer.
44PRIDE
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That's why its not called the Hall of Really Really Good Players...
dollarbill44
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^^^ this. He is the epitome of a HOF bubble guy. The problem with QBs and the HOF is that it is a position that requires really good offenses for many years for a QB to get into the HOF or the team has to win a couple of Super Bowls. There are plenty of great QBs that were part of mediocre offenses that aren't in the HOF due mainly to the luck of the draw and who drafted them. The Eagles didn't do a whole lot to help Donovan for most of his career with them. If they had, we wouldn't even be discussing this.
KingOtis
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McNabb did play in five NFC championship games, the NFL's Final Four. If a college coach went to five Final Fours in ten years, he would be in the HOF.
And Kelly needed help from Frank Reich one of those years.
KingOtis
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Excellent point. Kelly had Andre Reed and Thurman Thomas. When the Eagles were at their peak, McNabb had James Thrash and Duce Staley. Owens and Westbrook were there for the Super Bowl, but Owens didn't play until the Super Bowl and Westbrook was just starting to break out.
Orangeyes
R.I.P Dan
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It's nice to see that someone gets it
I'm not sure how you think he's that far away. I mean he's certainly got good career numbers, a good career winning percentage and a good playoff record (I know he never won a super bowl). I don't know if he's in or not, but he's delusional for suggesting he should be a serious candidate?
Yeah, I agree. And while I generally view Halls of Fame to be overrated (why are we trying to compare Dan Marino to Donovan McNabb again?), here are a couple more thoughts along the same vein:
-- Remember, the eagles only got mcnabb b/c they were a disaster prior to his arrival and, IIRC, invested in the Koy Detmer era. The fact that he came in and they almost immediately became consistent contenders for a decade is a pretty impressive testament to DM's skills.
-- The eagles had good coaching (albeit with terrible clock management and little to no running game) and a good front office but you don't win consistently in this league without a really good QB. Take Indy -- absolutely miserable pre-Peyton, a constant force with Peyton, an absolute abomination last season w/o Peyton. Look at the Bears -- some really good teams the last decade and some really good players but never able to consistently sustain that success with nobody at QB. The examples are all over.
-- McNabb's place in history should not be undersold in this discussion. He wasn't the first black QB and not the first mobile qb, but he was the first black QB who was considered more "athlete" than "QB" to develop into a pretty good passer and very good overall QB. The notion that he helped -- via his college and pro career -- to pave the way for guys like Vick, Tebow, Vince Young and others to at least get a long look at QB in the NFL is very much reality.
KaiserUEO
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heres an idea mcnabb never did.
force the 1st-4th round picks the iggs kept drafting for him, to come to an extra workout either before or after practice.
instead of turning high draft picks into busts, he couldve made them better.
Eli takes undrafted free agents and makes them pro bowlers or reliable starters at worst by working extra hard.
mcnabb takes the nachos and a few hotdogs and beers at phillie and sixer games.
Oh Lord
force the 1st-4th round picks the iggs kept drafting for him, to come to an extra workout either before or after practice.
instead of turning high draft picks into busts, he couldve made them better.
Eli takes undrafted free agents and makes them pro bowlers or reliable starters at worst by working extra hard.
mcnabb takes the nachos and a few hotdogs and beers at phillie and sixer games.
Oh Lord
suthrills
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So it's McNabb's fault that Freddy Mitchell sucked. That's some preverse thinking even for you.
I have absolutely no clue whether that account of Eli's actions is true or not but I'll take your word for it b/c I'm not that interested. The criticism of McNabb may also be valid for all I know and McNabb certainly looked like he was carrying some beer weight for as long as I can remember.
But two things on this:
1) I think it's unfair to suggest he didn't put a lot of time in on his game -- he vastly improved as a passer and as a quarterback in general from his rookie year forward. He also sustained success and had a very low INT rate -- two things that don't happen if you are simply banking on natural talent to see you through.
2) Winning the "big game" is so overrated in these things. You bring up Eli -- did the GMen win two super bowls because of Eli? Is Victor Cruz a pro bowler b/c of Eli? I don't buy those premises. I think Eli is a good QB (who somehow has mastered the art of turning his back to throws, which makes it look ugly at times) who very well could end up in the Hall. He may also be an excellent leader. But this is a well-run organization with excellent scouting and a very good coaching staff. Eli's work ethic may be a big factor in this but I'm not sure I buy the notion that Freddy Mitchell would have been a pro bowler b/c he was watching film with eli after practice.
KingOtis
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What about McNabb's offseason workout program in Arizona? He worked out with Eagles and - after he was traded - Redskins receivers.
KaiserUEO
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IthacaMatt
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Maybe so, but there are a number of undeserving guys by that standard who have been admitted. Like Kellen Winslow or Jim Kelly.
