MCW registers 16th double-double, is he ROY? | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

MCW registers 16th double-double, is he ROY?

Sixers fans are downright giddy about their tanking rebuild, in large part because they feel 100% certain that MCW is going to provide high level play at point guard for the next decade.

It's a lot easier to build a team when a young building block proves himself immediately.
 
Well Magic Johnson was right after the first game he saw him play this year when he said that he was going to be ROY. Great call by the Magic man!
 
SUFan44 said:
Unless Bill Simmons actually has a vote. He said in his most recent column that he'd vote for Victor Oladipo - since he can't vote for anyone who lost 26 straight games.
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He's rooted for a couple awful Celtic teams that blatantly tanked, including this year. He should know the deal. That's not MCW's fault.
 
sutomcat said:
Yup. Might be unanimous.
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Won't be - http://grantland.com/features/nba-awards-season/.

Zach Lowe gets a vote, and went for Oladipo. I think his reasoning is pretty bad -

He’s been turnover-prone on offense, but he has shot better than Carter-Williams from just about everywhere, and his midrange pull-up looks promising. Playing with at least a few quality veterans boosts that efficiency, but plop him on a roster as bad as Philly’s, and his counting numbers would likely be at least as good as MCW’s — with better defense. Oladipo has also played in 10 more games, which counts on the margins.

I really, really don't like it when people use hypotheticals as grounds for awards. It's horrible in baseball. Now it's infecting the NBA.

Major downside of the stat geek revolution. Major downside.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Won't be - http://grantland.com/features/nba-awards-season/.

Zach Lowe gets a vote, and went for Oladipo. I think his reasoning is pretty bad -

He’s been turnover-prone on offense, but he has shot better than Carter-Williams from just about everywhere, and his midrange pull-up looks promising. Playing with at least a few quality veterans boosts that efficiency, but plop him on a roster as bad as Philly’s, and his counting numbers would likely be at least as good as MCW’s — with better defense. Oladipo has also played in 10 more games, which counts on the margins.

I really, really don't like it when people use hypotheticals as grounds for awards. It's horrible in baseball. Now it's infecting the NBA.

Major downside of the stat geek revolution. Major downside.
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You conveniently left out:

"Amid that context, Carter-Williams has had a historically bad shooting season. He’s just a couple of misses from becoming the seventh player ever to attempt at least 100 3s while shooting worse than 25 percent from deep and 40 percent overall. Like most string bean rookie point guards, he has been bad on defense and had trouble negotiating picks; Philly has somehow been worse defensively with MCW on the floor, per NBA.com. They’ve been better on offense, but “better” still amounts to “worst in the league.”"
 
FLorange04 said:
You conveniently left out:

"Amid that context, Carter-Williams has had a historically bad shooting season. He’s just a couple of misses from becoming the seventh player ever to attempt at least 100 3s while shooting worse than 25 percent from deep and 40 percent overall. Like most string bean rookie point guards, he has been bad on defense and had trouble negotiating picks; Philly has somehow been worse defensively with MCW on the floor, per NBA.com. They’ve been better on offense, but “better” still amounts to “worst in the league.”"
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I didn't have beef with that because it's talking about things that actually happened, not giving another player credit for a scenario that is unknowable.
 
FLorange04 said:
You conveniently left out:

"Amid that context, Carter-Williams has had a historically bad shooting season. He’s just a couple of misses from becoming the seventh player ever to attempt at least 100 3s while shooting worse than 25 percent from deep and 40 percent overall. Like most string bean rookie point guards, he has been bad on defense and had trouble negotiating picks; Philly has somehow been worse defensively with MCW on the floor, per NBA.com. They’ve been better on offense, but “better” still amounts to “worst in the league.”"
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This is true, except that MCW has played exceptionally great basket ball his last 10 games or so. He's averaged something like 18, 8, and 8 while shooting over 50 percent from the floor (he's cut back on shooting 3s).

He's a much better pro than I thought he would be.
 
FLorange04 said:
You conveniently left out:

"Amid that context, Carter-Williams has had a historically bad shooting season. He’s just a couple of misses from becoming the seventh player ever to attempt at least 100 3s while shooting worse than 25 percent from deep and 40 percent overall. Like most string bean rookie point guards, he has been bad on defense and had trouble negotiating picks; Philly has somehow been worse defensively with MCW on the floor, per NBA.com. They’ve been better on offense, but “better” still amounts to “worst in the league.”"
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Is there a stat that breaks these things down while also accounting for the competition? For example, Philly might be "worse defensively" with him on the floor, but I'd be willing to bet a large part of that is that when he's on the floor, so is the opponent's starting lineup. When he's off the floor, Philly is likely facing much weaker competition, so naturally, they would probably be "better defensively".

Having watched a good amount of Philly's games, he's looked like a fine defender to me. His quickness and athleticism for someone his size allows him to do a good job of staying in front of his man, and it's easy to point out that he's gotten blindsided by some screens this year, but it doesn't help that his teammates also don't know how to hedge or create space for him to slide through so that he doesn't get blown up.
 
Only 3 other current players has averaged 6+rbs and 6+asts in a single season: LeBron, KG and Boris Diaw, and they were all pretty much on good playoff caliber teams; Mike did it with a bunch of Dleague players in his rookie season, impressive to say the least.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Sixers fans are downright giddy about their tanking rebuild, in large part because they feel 100% certain that MCW is going to provide high level play at point guard for the next decade.

It's a lot easier to build a team when a young building block proves himself immediately.
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Can you blame them? Next season they will have MCW, a healthy Noel, and two lottery picks from this years draft. That is a very solid foundation to build on. Plus Philly is no small market so they shouldn't have any trouble getting free agents to come.
 
SWFLCUSE said:
Can you blame them? Next season they will have MCW, a healthy Noel, and two lottery picks from this years draft. That is a very solid foundation to build on. Plus Philly is no small market so they shouldn't have any trouble getting free agents to come.
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Not at all. I think their future is very bright. Lotto picks + two core young guys already in the fold + cap space + smart management = better days ahead.
 
longtimefan said:
The point is, MCW led all NBA rookies in the 3 main categories, and Lebron didn't (because Melo out-scored him?).
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Sure that's fine. I wasn't debating it. As a asked in another post, does that also suggest how weak this draft class was? MCW has had a great year, but no big men have averaged at least 8 rebounds and no player has burst onto the scene as a 20 ppg scorer. That sounds abnormal to me.
 
sufandu said:
Sure that's fine. I wasn't debating it. As a asked in another post, does that also suggest how weak this draft class was? MCW has had a great year, but no big men have averaged at least 8 rebounds and no player has burst onto the scene as a 20 ppg scorer. That sounds abnormal to me.
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Since 2000, only 6 rookies have averaged 20 points per game:
Griffin
Melo
LeBron
Durant
Elton Brand (1999-2000)
and Tyreke Evans

11 rookies have averaged 8+ rebounds during that span, and nobody has done it in the past 3 years.

So I wouldn't say that it's that abnormal.
 
sufandu said:
Sure that's fine. I wasn't debating it. As a asked in another post, does that also suggest how weak this draft class was? MCW has had a great year, but no big men have averaged at least 8 rebounds and no player has burst onto the scene as a 20 ppg scorer. That sounds abnormal to me.
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Seems to me the simple fact that the only other rookie to accomplish this was Oscar Robertson indicates something.
 
SUFan44 said:
His numbers are against the entire NBA - and are pretty freaking impressive.

Just because the draft class is weak doesn't diminish what he's done. His shooting percentage isn't anything to write home about, but outside of that he's had an unbelievable year.
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Holy crap. Did you read my second sentence? I said he's having a great year. Just putting forth a little perspective that in many years, with his numbers, there would be at least one category where someone would be better. It's not like he's putting up Oscar Robertson numbers. It's not the same as when John wall averaged 8.3 assists but Blake Griffin averaged 22.5 points and 12.1 rebounds.
 
The issue is that nobody saw this coming, including Simmons and Lowe (who know "everything").

But many DID predict Oladipo to win the ROY. If he wins, that gives them bragging rights to say they predicted it. All the more reason to nitpick the guy who leads all rookies in points, rebounds, assists, and steals. Oladipo is a fan-favorite everywhere and people have been force-feeding him into the ROY race all year. His never stinks, but MCW's always does. Get what I mean?

Plus when you deal with hipsters, they get joy in life from having a different opinion than everyone else. When they sense a unanimous opinion, they will find a way to go against it. That's why even if we're 40-0 and 2nd place has 6 losses, there will still be haters.
 
Simmons is just salty because the Celtics screwed up their tanking this year by hiring Stevens and winning too many games. He knows Philly is accelerating their rebuild and he's never let rooting for his teams get in the way of his work at ESPN.
 
You could make arguments for both of them. I think if you take his points, rebounds, assists and steals into account, you also have to take into account the losses, low field goal percentage and turnovers (the turnovers are about the same for both players)...It was also pointed out that Philly had more possessions than Orlando so this could cause disparities in the stats - This should be true for both the good and the bad stats.
 
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