Melodramatic absolutely owning Lebron

[HOFCeluck]

I think there's one thing we can all agree on. You either love or hate Lebron, no middle ground here.

I don't love him or hate him. I think he's a great player and it irritating when people like King Otis just throw junk out there because of some agenda.

 

[KingOtis]

You're totally right Otis, so much talent on those Cleveland teams. His supporting cast really proved to everyone they didn't need LeBron last year when they went from having one of the best records in the NBA to the worst or one of the worst.

Great argument strategy, whenever someone proves us wrong we'll just claim it was fixed by the NBA and was a big conspiracy.

Last but not least, you're insulting him for being the "self proclaimed king", are you aware you're handle is KingOtis?

Look at my avatar. You think I'm really Otis Hill?

If you don't think the NBA is fixed, then you haven't been paying attention.

James wasn't the only player to leave the Cavs last year. And the team was built around him.

 

[Ward]

Well, you're wrong:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2005.html

He didn't make the Finals until his fourth year.

So get some facts and come back and see me.

So because he made the finals in his fourth year rather than the second it doesn't count? We can just ignore all the other points made because making the finals at 22 years old with no supporting cast compared to 20 with no support is totally different right?

 

[jdubs30]

Well, you're wrong:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2005.html

He didn't make the Finals until his fourth year.

So get some facts and come back and see me.

Haha ok my bad, I was off by 2 years, still doesn't change my point at all.

 

[KingOtis]

"More than enough talent". Do you mean Baron Davis and Wallly Szcerbiak? Larry Hughes? Michel Redd? Mo Williams and Anderson Vareajo? Antwan Jamison? Please, he had nothing in Cleveland; Melo had way more help in Denver and they never did in the playoffs

Oh, and Baron Davis and James have never played together...

 

[KingOtis]

Carmelo has won an amazing 2 playoff series. LeBron won more than that last year alone.

Playing second-fiddle to Wade...

 

[Ward]

Look at my avatar. You think I'm really Otis Hill?

If you don't think the NBA is fixed, then you haven't been paying attention.

James wasn't the only player to leave the Cavs last year. And the team was built around him.

The thought you were Otis Hill never crossed my mind. Who did Cleveland lose besides LeBron, a washed up Shaq and Ilgauskas? I agree the NBA is shady at times but I'm not so sure that negates accomplishments, or at least half the league would have resumes vacated.

 

[KingOtis]

Does anyone really care about this? Lebron went to a really bad team in his first 2 years. They won 17 games the year before he got there. (As did Denver in 03, fwiw, but they added Andre Miller and got 50 more games out of Marcus Camby). But does anyone really care that Melo's teams were better the first year in the league?

Melo's clutch numbers are fantastic though. Small sample size or not, he has that over pretty much every guy in the league.

The Nuggets were just as bad the year before Melo arrived. And they were playing in a much tougher conference.

I care because Melo deserved to win ROY over James. James became a better player, but Melo was better early on.

 

[jdubs30]

Nothing wrong with having another talented player on your team. But does anyone think Westbrook is better than Durant? Did anyone think Pippen was better than Jordan? Yes, there were Shaq/Kobe debates and Magic/Kareem debates, but usually you know who is #1 and who is #2. James is #2...and that was his choice. You're not the best player in the league when you do that. You're just not. It was a cop out. It's something you do at the end of your career, like Oscar Robertson, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone and Gary Payton.

LeBron leads Miami in PPG, RPG, APG, and SPG. But you're right, he's clearly #2.

Look at my avatar. You think I'm really Otis Hill?

If you don't think the NBA is fixed, then you haven't been paying attention.

James wasn't the only player to leave the Cavs last year. And the team was built around him.

The team was built poorly around him; their attempt to build included bringing in former All-Stars who were clearly past their prime. I'll give Cleveland credit in that they tried, but they failed. When Boston got the Big 3 the Cavs just couldn't answer; Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison aren't near KG and Ray Allen.

 

[jdubs30]

The Nuggets were just as bad the year before Melo arrived. And they were playing in a much tougher conference.

I care because Melo deserved to win ROY over James. James became a better player, but Melo was better early on.

Andre Miller and Marcus Camby were waaaayyyy better than anything in Cleveland in their rookie years.

 

[KingOtis]

So in order to be the "best player" in the league, you have to force a fadeaway jumper over 3 defenders as opposed to passing it to a wide open man? And somehow missing the fadeaway in the first situation makes you a better player than the guy who passed it to a guy who made the open shot?

I can't stand Bryant, but you can't argue with the number of rings he's won. And the fact that he can make those fade-aways over three defenders is ridiculous.

I'm not the first person to point out that James is passive. You can rave all you want about his athleticism and skill set, but he's not clutch...and probably never will be.

 

[Knicks411]

The Nuggets were as bad in 03, but they added more players in 04.

Man, looking up the 04 Cavs. #4 in minutes was Kevin Ollie. Kevin Ollie! Followed by Eric Williams, Ira Newble, Jeff McInnis. Man. He did have a young Carlos Boozer and a prime big Z.

Denver added an in prime Andre Miller and Marcus Camby to the 04 team. West was definitely better that year though, and Denver finished 8 games ahead of Cleveland.

 

[KingOtis]

In the last ten years Syracuse has missed the tournament twice. Pittsburgh missed it once.

Whose results would you rather have?

Different leagues...

 

[jdubs30]

I can't stand Bryant, but you can't argue with the number of rings he's won. And the fact that he can make those fade-aways over three defenders is ridiculous.

I'm not the first person to point out that James is passive. You can rave all you want about his athleticism and skill set, but he's not clutch...and probably never will be.

Kobe is 16 for 55 in "clutch" situations. That's 29%. I wonder how many of those misses came when he had 4 hands in his face and Lamar Odom wide open in the corner.

 

[KingOtis]

So because he made the finals in his fourth year rather than the second it doesn't count?

No, it just means jdubs30 was wrong.

 

[KingOtis]

Haha ok my bad, I was off by 2 years, still doesn't change my point at all.

Actually, it kinda does.

 

[jdubs30]

The Nuggets were as bad in 03, but they added more players in 04.

Man, looking up the 04 Cavs. #4 in minutes was Kevin Ollie. Kevin Ollie! Followed by Eric Williams, Ira Newble, Jeff McInnis. Man. He did have a young Carlos Boozer and a prime big Z.

Denver added an in prime Andre Miller and Marcus Camby to the 04 team. West was definitely better that year though, and Denver finished 8 games ahead of Cleveland.

It's a shame that Boozer left before his prime.

 

[jdubs30]

Actually, it kinda does.

How?

BTW, are we really gonna argue that LeBron has been 3x more success than Melo in the playoffs becuse Melo played in the West?

 

[KingOtis]

The thought you were Otis Hill never crossed my mind.

Then it's absurd that you would try to make me out as some kind of hypocrite when I'm obviously paying homage to the greatest center in Syracuse history.

 

[Knicks411]

Kobe is 16 for 55 in "clutch" situations. That's 29%. I wonder how many of those misses came when he had 4 hands in his face and Lamar Odom wide open in the corner.

I think my favorite stat is that he has 1 asst in those situations.

Of course, there were a few times in 2010 where maybe it worked out, he threw up a brick with 3 guys on him and they got the rebound and put it in.

 

[KingOtis]

OK, I've spent way too much time arguing over something that I really don't care about, plus I need to get to work. So I'm going to leave all of you with this:

 

[jdubs30]

OK, I've spent way too much time arguing over something that I really don't care about, plus I need to get to work. So I'm going to leave all of you with this:

But we're comparing Melo to LeBron; and LeBron has won more than Melo.

Nice way to end.

 

[44cuse]

Come on, 44cuse. If you're going to make an argument, at least have facts and statistics to back it up.

Omar's coming yo!

44cuse

 

[jordoo]

Season on the line who do you want to have the ball in their hands? Lebron isn't even the first choice on his team. He's a great player but he's become afraid of the moment IMO and that is a mental weakness that just doesn't go away. You cannot be the best player if deep down inside you don't believe that you can get the job done. Even a tiny bit of doubt and your playing like Lebron did in the 4th quarter of last years finals.

 

[Knicks411]

Season on the line who do you want to have the ball in their hands? Lebron isn't even the first choice on his team. He's a great player but he's become afraid of the moment IMO and that is a mental weakness that just doesn't go away. You cannot be the best player if deep down inside you don't believe that you can get the job done. Even a tiny bit of doubt and your playing like Lebron did in the 4th quarter of last years finals.

The thing that is weird is that isn't always how it is. It isn't how it was in the series before that. It wasn't how it was when he dragged the 07 Cavs to the finals, scoring the last 25 points. But it was really odd, and it was a multiple game thing. Which is what makes the whole thing so strange.