Mess at Baylor continues to smell

[Whitey23]

Their new AD, Rhoades, hired Herman at Houston.

 

[texascpa]

Their new AD, Rhoades, hired Herman at Houston.

Whoa. He just got a huge extension from Houston, too.

 

[Whitey23]

Maybe they said No?

 

[HtownOrange]

Maybe they said No?

Herman has been good for Houtson. He got a large raise. Not sure why he would jump to Baylor during the storm as he is a commodity now for much higher profile gigs, so much so that he is comfortable staying in Houston rather than take just any P5 opening, especially one where they will likely lose scholarships for a few years and will probably receive a post season ban.

(The NCAA will claim "they learned their lesson" - a covering excuse for letting PSU slide and then will simply let PSU slide a second time by claiming the matter was already settled).

 

[qdawgg]

Why are we even discussing Briles and/or Paterno on this site? It has nothing to do with Syracuse football.

We sure as hell didn't like it when the other schools were talking about Bernie Fine and Jim Boeheim.

Still haven't learned to read thread titles I see, since you complain about any topic not SU related . Don't forget, you clicked on the thread title which clearly said "baylor", you then made the effort to post within the thread.

 

[CuseOnly]

Why are we even discussing Briles and/or Paterno on this site? It has nothing to do with Syracuse football.

We sure as hell didn't like it when the other schools were talking about Bernie Fine and Jim Boeheim.

Reading Is Fundamental

Do you also read books you don't like after reading the titles?

 

[Whitey23]

Baylor Sexual Assault Report Produces Punishment, but No Paper Trail


The former Baylor president Kenneth W. Starr complained that he had never seen it. Baylor’s alumni association called for its release. The Big 12 Conference has asked for it — twice.

But there is one problem. It — a written report of an investigation conducted by an outside law firm in the wake of several sexual assault allegations and convictions involving Baylor football players — does not exist.

“Various voices have called for the release of the ‘full report,’” the university’s interim president, David Garland, wrote in June after the Board of Regents demoted Mr. Starr and fired the football coach Art Briles.

The lawyers’ report, however, “was delivered in the form of an oral presentation that fully and comprehensively presented the individual and aggregated findings and the evidence supporting the findings,” Mr. Garland said.

 

[longtimefan]

Baylor s e xual Assault Report Produces Punishment, but No Paper Trail


The former Baylor president Kenneth W. Starr complained that he had never seen it. Baylor’s alumni association called for its release. The Big 12 Conference has asked for it — twice.

But there is one problem. It — a written report of an investigation conducted by an outside law firm in the wake of several s e xual assault allegations and convictions involving Baylor football players — does not exist.

“Various voices have called for the release of the ‘full report,’” the university’s interim president, David Garland, wrote in June after the Board of Regents demoted Mr. Starr and fired the football coach Art Briles.

The lawyers’ report, however, “was delivered in the form of an oral presentation that fully and comprehensively presented the individual and aggregated findings and the evidence supporting the findings,” Mr. Garland said.

There had to be something in writing at one point--the materials used as a basis of the oral presentation. I would guess the documentation has been destroyed.

 

[HtownOrange]

There had to be something in writing at one point--the materials used as a basis of the oral presentation. I would guess the documentation has been destroyed.

Destruction of materials is possible, though a law firm will rarely destroy anything that can be used in an active investigation (their own licenses would be on the line as well as potential criminal penalties). I think there is condemning information that can be used in a criminal prosecution. As such they would not release that material, except to authorities, so as not to interfere with an investigation. It appears there was a cover up and to interfere with a criminal investigation would only make matters worse.

My opinion is that what we suspect is probably not far from the truth; that the football staff was actively dissuading young women to report their complaints to authorities. Hopefully, the authorities are performing a full investigation (which will take some time) and will prosecute the perpetrators of the crime and the former staff for their involvement.

 

[orangehomer]

There had to be something in writing at one point--the materials used as a basis of the oral presentation. I would guess the documentation has been destroyed.

i don't think it means anything was destroyed. i think a presentation like this could easily be done with fairly vanilla notes that would just be part of the case file. we do investigations for our clients all the time where we review all the evidence, do the analysis and then give them a verbal summary of findings. it goes something like "well, if we were to generate a written report today, here are what the conclusions would be." and then they decide if they want the report or not. my guess is that this was just a more formal version of that interaction. the lawyers said if we write a report here is what it would say, and the Baylor officials said don't write it. as far as the case notes i can't see any reason that Baylor would be obligated to give them to the big 12, and i doubt there would be anything in there that meant anything anyway.

edit: i wanted to add, how naïve must briles be, he thought the Baylor legal team was going to look out for his interests? they already fired you dude. they would throw him under the bus in a second to get themselves out of this mess.

 

[longtimefan]

i don't think it means anything was destroyed. i think a presentation like this could easily be done with fairly vanilla notes that would just be part of the case file. we do investigations for our clients all the time where we review all the evidence, do the analysis and then give them a verbal summary of findings. it goes something like "well, if we were to generate a written report today, here are what the conclusions would be." and then they decide if they want the report or not. my guess is that this was just a more formal version of that interaction. the lawyers said if we write a report here is what it would say, and the Baylor officials said don't write it. as far as the case notes i can't see any reason that Baylor would be obligated to give them to the big 12, and i doubt there would be anything in there that meant anything anyway.

edit: i wanted to add, how naïve must briles be, he thought the Baylor legal team was going to look out for his interests? they already fired you dude. they would throw him under the bus in a second to get themselves out of this mess.

If we put these two highlighted phrases together. . .Baylor would do whatever they think they could to make this go away. After reading some of the comments from posters who have legal backgrounds, I would doubt they would (could?) destroy documents. But they might have ordered that the paper trail be limited as much as it could be.

We haven't heard the last of this. The Title IX stuff is a potentially a big problem. And the divergent interests of all of the parties involved could make for some nasty revelations. See: Lawyer: Briles reneged on rape-victim apology

 

[Whitey23]

How bad a situation is Missouri if their AD hopped to Baylor and all of this after a year? (I guess you could say the same about Conroy)

 

[orangehomer]

If we put these two highlighted phrases together. . .Baylor would do whatever they think they could to make this go away. After reading some of the comments from posters who have legal backgrounds, I would doubt they would (could?) destroy documents. But they might have ordered that the paper trail be limited as much as it could be.

We haven't heard the last of this. The Title IX stuff is a potentially a big problem. And the divergent interests of all of the parties involved could make for some nasty revelations. See: Lawyer: Briles reneged on rape-victim apology

i think what i am trying to tell you is that there are no secret documents.

 

[longtimefan]

i think what i am trying to tell you is that there are no secret documents.

We seem to be talking past one another.

Sometimes this internet forum thing just doesn't work.

 

[syr02esq]

Herman has been good for Houtson. He got a large raise. Not sure why he would jump to Baylor during the storm as he is a commodity now for much higher profile gigs, so much so that he is comfortable staying in Houston rather than take just any P5 opening, especially one where they will likely lose scholarships for a few years and will probably receive a post season ban.

(The NCAA will claim "they learned their lesson" - a covering excuse for letting PSU slide and then will simply let PSU slide a second time by claiming the matter was already settled).

Baylor fired their HC, President got domotes and AD resigned. They have only 70 on scholarship right now. What else could the NCAA do to them?

 

[syr02esq]

Destruction of materials is possible, though a law firm will rarely destroy anything that can be used in an active investigation (their own licenses would be on the line as well as potential criminal penalties). I think there is condemning information that can be used in a criminal prosecution. As such they would not release that material, except to authorities, so as not to interfere with an investigation. It appears there was a cover up and to interfere with a criminal investigation would only make matters worse.

My opinion is that what we suspect is probably not far from the truth; that the football staff was actively dissuading young women to report their complaints to authorities. Hopefully, the authorities are performing a full investigation (which will take some time) and will prosecute the perpetrators of the crime and the former staff for their involvement.

Coach Grobe was hired to help repair Baylor's image - not for his football prowess. He was the head of some college football ethics committee or something like that and Grant Teaff begged him to come to Baylor. Coach Grobe was given authority to fire the staff as he felt appropriate. But he didn't. That is what I find significant. That he has kept all the coaches, even those that supposedly were involved in some cover up or discouraged victims not to report is enlightening. It tells me that he thinks the coaches didn't do anything wrong or what they "did" didn't deserve removal. Think about that for a long moment.

 

[HtownOrange]

Baylor fired their HC, President got domotes and AD resigned. They have only 70 on scholarship right now. What else could the NCAA do to them?

They could start an 8 year investigation and find nothing more but take away several years worth of wins, force a post season ban, etc. (see Syracuse) or they could restore Baylor to its full history and pass it over any punishment (see Ped State).

Baylor's actions may be sufficient in the eyes of the NCAA, maybe not. The truth is Ped State should have had a death penalty for at least a year or two, having known about the allegations and significant proof for 40 years and allowing it to continue. There is no evidence or claims that this has gone on for 40 years at Baylor. Still, the NCAA is almost as useful as a screen door on a submarine when it comes to punishing schools. Baylor could get the punishment Ped State deserves or get the what Syracuse deserved.

 

[HtownOrange]

Coach Grobe was hired to help repair Baylor's image - not for his football prowess. He was the head of some college football ethics committee or something like that and Grant Teaff begged him to come to Baylor. Coach Grobe was given authority to fire the staff as he felt appropriate. But he didn't. That is what I find significant. That he has kept all the coaches, even those that supposedly were involved in some cover up or discouraged victims not to report is enlightening. It tells me that he thinks the coaches didn't do anything wrong or what they "did" didn't deserve removal. Think about that for a long moment.

It may indicate that Grobe thought the cover up was directed from above (Briles) and the assistants can be corrected to remember that football is merely a game, destroying lives is far worse than exposing a bad apple (or several). I am not a Baylor hater, just hating the crime/coverup. Long term, if Baylor does the right thing and makes things right, they will be fine. If they act like Ped State, they deserve the full brunt of everyone's contempt.

I think most people realize that this was confined to the football team per the evidence known today, for a short period. Contrast that with Ped State where administrations knew, the whole of the AD knew, kids knew and passed the word along to stay away from Jerry. If Baylor's culture is respectable (which I think as a school it is respectable) then they will make things right and will not allow such behaviors in the future.

Regardless, if the current staff, though remaining at Grobe's choice, should be prosecuted if they have committed a crime. The idea that athletes and coaches are above the law is a very bad idea.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

They could start an 8 year investigation and find nothing more but take away several years worth of wins, force a post season ban, etc. (see Syracuse) or they could restore Baylor to its full history and pass it over any punishment (see Ped State).

Baylor's actions may be sufficient in the eyes of the NCAA, maybe not. The truth is Ped State should have had a death penalty for at least a year or two, having known about the allegations and significant proof for 40 years and allowing it to continue. There is no evidence or claims that this has gone on for 40 years at Baylor. Still, the NCAA is almost as useful as a screen door on a submarine when it comes to punishing schools. Baylor could get the punishment Ped State deserves or get the what Syracuse deserved.

Given that participation in, and systemic cover up of rapes at PSU ultimately went unpunished,in large part, I say the NCAA will pass.

 

[HtownOrange]

Given that participation in, and systemic cover up of rapes at PSU ultimately went unpunished,in large part, I say the NCAA will pass.

I tend to agree. I only leave a caveat as Baylor is a private school like Syracuse and USC (and SMU for that matter) and the NCAA has come down hard on USC and Syracuse for far lesser violations. State U violations seem to be swept under the rug rather swiftly. This is an opinion, I have not researched the full matter.

It may be that the NCAA has a criminal threshold wherein they can claim the courts will punish the offender but I sincerely believe that the NCAA needs to punish PSU for the reckless endangerment of the lives of thousands of children all in the name of sport. Clearly PSU had no intent on upholding any standard other than W's in football. I don't think that same attitude permeated the Baylor institutionally, like PSU.

 

[baggerbob]

Penn St hired Franklin who left Vanderbilt, after the allegations against the 4 players for rape. One has been sentenced to 15 years, a second is awaiting sentencing, and the other 2 are awaiting trial. With Penn States history, there is no way they should have hired Franklin. Its business as usual in Happy Valley, win at all costs.

 

[orange79]

Big 12 Commissioner On College Sexual Assault: Teens Will Be Teens

Bob Bowlsby is a POS

"It almost goes without saying that when you combine alcohol and drugs and raging hormones and the experiences of 18- 22 years old, it’s probably unrealistic to think that these kinds of things are never going to happen."

 

[Whitey23]

 

[Toga]

Big 12 Commissioner On College s e xual Assault: Teens Will Be Teens

Bob Bowlsby is a POS

"It almost goes without saying that when you combine alcohol and drugs and raging hormones and the experiences of 18- 22 years old, it’s probably unrealistic to think that these kinds of things are never going to happen."

And he has two daughters. A-hole.

 

[Whitey23]

these guys...