Micron - Let’s try this again

[FrancoPizza]

It was bought last year. Slated for mixed purpose development, not unlike what is planned for Shoppingtown.

Expect apartments, townhomes, entertainment venues, restaurants, and medical offices.

Maybe they will bring back the theatres,

Hart Lyman Company Purchases Great Northern Mall for $9M - Connect CRE

Hart Lyman Company has purchased Great Northern Mall in Clay, NY, for $9 million from Kohan Retail. The property, situated on 120 acres, is slated for a major mixed-use town center redevelopment that will include apartments, townhomes, entertainment venues, restaurants, and medical offices...

www.connectcre.com

Speaking of that redevelopment I’m surprised pyramid hasn’t given consideration to converting all the empty department store space st destiny into some type of housing. Macy’s is the only one left. Those parcels were on the edge of the property where they have their own entrance and parking areas. Seems like a no brainer since we’re talking upwards of a million square feet that is collecting no rent now and for the foreseeable future.

 

[sutomcat]

Speaking of that redevelopment I’m surprised pyramid hasn’t given consideration to converting all the empty department store space st destiny into some type of housing. Macy’s is the only one left. Those parcels were on the edge of the property where they have their own entrance and parking areas. Seems like a no brainer since we’re talking upwards of a million square feet that is collecting no rent now and for the foreseeable future.

Agree. I think it is inevitable that some of DestinyUSA will become housing.

I assume they are hoping against hope that this 'shop via the Internet' thing is just a fad and will go away soon. Good luck with that.

There will probably be offices coming there too.

I think it would be smart to create an indoor sports center. Golf simulators, batting cages, indoor soccer and lacrosse and pickleball. That would draw more people to the location and help the businesses that remain there.

 

[upperdeck]

the golf sim area is sitting unused. nothing to do but buy some Sims.. the issue as always is the rent is too high for many of these places.

 

[JRHEETER]

the golf sim area is sitting unused. nothing to do but buy some Sims.. the issue as always is the rent is too high for many of these places.

Biggest thing right here is rent at a shopping mall

I know back when the Gap was at the little Oakdale Mall in Binghamton are rent per month was something 5k a month. The store was maybe 1000 sq ft

Just absolutely insane the amount that rent has to be to keep these malls in working order

 

[OttoMets]

Speaking of that redevelopment I’m surprised pyramid hasn’t given consideration to converting all the empty department store space st destiny into some type of housing. Macy’s is the only one left. Those parcels were on the edge of the property where they have their own entrance and parking areas. Seems like a no brainer since we’re talking upwards of a million square feet that is collecting no rent now and for the foreseeable future.

Putting aside the concern about what their lenders might say ("NO"), converting 60,000 to 90,000 square foot floor plates to residential is no easy feat.

 

[upperdeck]

you can make one nice studio appt though.. room for pool table that always loses out in most houses. indoor bball court for when friends come over.

 

[upperdeck]

Ithaca did a nice job at the mall converting a big space into medical, easy parking and drawing some traffic back into the food area as well.

 

[NKR1978]

Speaking of that redevelopment I’m surprised pyramid hasn’t given consideration to converting all the empty department store space st destiny into some type of housing. Macy’s is the only one left. Those parcels were on the edge of the property where they have their own entrance and parking areas. Seems like a no brainer since we’re talking upwards of a million square feet that is collecting no rent now and for the foreseeable future.

Kills two birds. You get more housing and people to live at Destiny and use it.

 

[TexanMark]

Ithaca did a nice job at the mall converting a big space into medical, easy parking and drawing some traffic back into the food area as well.

A medical complex might be another possible use at Destiny. The place has to evolve with a combination of several uses.

 

[FrancoPizza]

A medical complex might be another possible use at Destiny. The place has to evolve with a combination of several uses.

I think they would be open to selling those former department store spaces, but the astronomical debt might be scaring away prospective buyers. I think Macy's owns their space and have not been affected by the rent that would otherwise be inflicted.

I realize debt financing is a thing and happens in a lot of places, but the sheer amount of debt incurred by Pyramid despite the tax breaks is mind-boggling. Is it not fiscal malpractice when you don't even try to pay down the debt and just pay off the interest?

 

[sutomcat]

Putting aside the concern about what their lenders might say ("NO"), converting 60,000 to 90,000 square foot floor plates to residential is no easy feat.

At Shoppingtown, it sounds like the plan is to knock down a lot of the existing mall and build the housing related buildings from scratch. Probably not an option at Destiny.

Hopefully the Pyramid people show some creative talents we haven't seen yet to repurpose some of the space. The good news is that there are still a lot of stores, activity centers and foot traffic there. I could see young people wanting to live there. Especially if there were a few more bars and restaurants that would interest them there.

Guessing there will be government incentives to repurpose space for housing that might help here.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Putting aside the concern about what their lenders might say ("NO"), converting 60,000 to 90,000 square foot floor plates to residential is no easy feat.

As much as Pyramid may want to cry bad luck with the timing of the destiny expansion and being saddled with 850,000 sq ft of extra GLA, imagine how much harder it would be had that Emerald 5 "Green" Hotel been constructed instead. Remember they wanted to build that skyscraper first and then add the GLA in Phase 2, but the city demanded otherwise. At least with the expansion as is, it's possible to rearrange some of the retail and entertainment parcels to accommodate mixed uses going forward. The hotel would have been a nightmare to reclaim and adapt.

As far as Pyramid thinking outside their comfort zone and helping this along, I'm not holding my breath. I hope I'm wrong because the opportunity to reimagine is here and now.

 

[310Pigpen]

Ithaca did a nice job at the mall converting a big space into medical, easy parking and drawing some traffic back into the food area as well.

In Rochester they converted part of Marketplace mall into a medical facility.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Biggest thing right here is rent at a shopping mall

I know back when the Gap was at the little Oakdale Mall in Binghamton are rent per month was something 5k a month. The store was maybe 1000 sq ft

Just absolutely insane the amount that rent has to be to keep these malls in working order

I wonder how the rent compares to some of these "lifestyle centers" like Town Center, Township 5 and Fairmount Fair.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I wonder how the rent compares to some of these "lifestyle centers" like Town Center, Township 5 and Fairmount Fair.

Township 5 has a great mix of tenants. Apartments, hotel, restaurants, entertainment, shopping including costco with a gas station, some medical, fitness, pet store, liquor store. Pretty much everything you need. Home Depot a couple minutes away. Hopefully it will still be a viable place in 20 years.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Township 5 has a great mix of tenants. Apartments, hotel, restaurants, entertainment, shopping including costco with a gas station, some medical, fitness, pet store, liquor store. Pretty much everything you need. Home Depot a couple minutes away. Hopefully it will still be a viable place in 20 years.

The Tru Hotel or whatever its name is... that's a baffling one. I can't imagine who would want to lodge at that exit.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

The Tru Hotel or whatever its name is... that's a baffling one. I can't imagine who would want to lodge at that exit.

I've stayed their twice. Filled with youth sports teams. But it would be a great place to stay for the State Fair and Lakeview Amphitheater.

 

[TexanMark]

I think they would be open to selling those former department store spaces, but the astronomical debt might be scaring away prospective buyers. I think Macy's owns their space and have not been affected by the rent that would otherwise be inflicted.

I realize debt financing is a thing and happens in a lot of places, but the sheer amount of debt incurred by Pyramid despite the tax breaks is mind-boggling. Is it not fiscal malpractice when you don't even try to pay down the debt and just pay off the interest?

If any space is converted into Medical the renovation costs do go up...NEC (Code) requires redundant wiring systems for medical facilities.

However, I think it would be a solid reuse option for some of the space.

 

[SWC75]

When I was working at Social Security there were rumors we'd move from the Federal Building to Destiny. It never happened but converting the big stores to office space makes sense.

 

[OttoMets]

As much as Pyramid may want to cry bad luck with the timing of the destiny expansion and being saddled with 850,000 sq ft of extra GLA, imagine how much harder it would be had that Emerald 5 "Green" Hotel been constructed instead. Remember they wanted to build that skyscraper first and then add the GLA in Phase 2, but the city demanded otherwise. At least with the expansion as is, it's possible to rearrange some of the retail and entertainment parcels to accommodate mixed uses going forward. The hotel would have been a nightmare to reclaim and adapt.

As far as Pyramid thinking outside their comfort zone and helping this along, I'm not holding my breath. I hope I'm wrong because the opportunity to reimagine is here and now.

I think they're openminded but got caught in a perfect storm. So now they're white-knuckling their way while hoping that aquarium construction and housing developments can bridge the gap until their project (still heavily entertainment-focused, but possibly with some of the medical, etc. uses mentioned here) is stabilized.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I think they're openminded but got caught in a perfect storm. So now they're white-knuckling their way while hoping that aquarium construction and housing developments can bridge the gap until their project (still heavily entertainment-focused, but possibly with some of the medical, etc. uses mentioned here) is stabilized.

Destiny is screwed

 

[JeremyCuse]

Putting aside the concern about what their lenders might say ("NO"), converting 60,000 to 90,000 square foot floor plates to residential is no easy feat.

Good point, plus there is usually a ton of zoning issues that crop up as that area is almost assuredly not zoned for residential living. Also any potential living space that was ultimately agreed upon would be of the highest of high end, Pyramid isn't putting in anything remotely resembling affordable housing. Hard to see how this would be remotely viable.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I think they're openminded but got caught in a perfect storm. So now they're white-knuckling their way while hoping that aquarium construction and housing developments can bridge the gap until their project (still heavily entertainment-focused, but possibly with some of the medical, etc. uses mentioned here) is stabilized.

What project?

 

[JeremyCuse]

I think they're openminded but got caught in a perfect storm. So now they're white-knuckling their way while hoping that aquarium construction and housing developments can bridge the gap until their project (still heavily entertainment-focused, but possibly with some of the medical, etc. uses mentioned here) is stabilized.

Ya I think their only real option is to try and white knuckle this thing as long as possible and hope something changes via overall interest via increased pop as you noted or some mixed use project pops up that makes sense. The expanded section of the mall seems to still be going relatively strong but some of the original parts are clearly past the glory years and large sections like The former JC Penny, Best Buy and others are essentially unrentable.

I don't see housing being a viable option as while the market is scorching hot right now, it would take years for any housing to come online even if Destiny wanted to go that route and could start now. I am also not sure how much demand there would be for sky high rents at Destiny. Living at a mall sounds good if your 17 or 22 but the novelty would likely wear off quick. Medical offices also seem somewhat realistic but there are already a number for facilities, business parks etc with space available, not sure there is a huge demand for more.

Destiny's best bet maybe to come up with some agreement with Syracuse Univ or Micron or partner with someone else to use some of that large available space and to think outside the box. What exactly that is I am not sure but they definitely need to think outside the box. If they could find away to attract people in the summer and fall when the weather is good with some sort of inside/outside combo that could help but again what exactly that is or could be is hard to say. Tomcat noted pickleball courts which is an interesting idea, maybe a mix sports concept could work.

 

[Newhouser]

The egos involved at Destiny will have to be dragged into saying the mall failed, and they need to pivot.