Micron - Let’s try this again

[SUbear]

Correct. There’s never been a facility built in CNY with the infrastructure needed for this project. It’s highly technical in nature.

Which goes back to National Grid starting to upgrade their infrastructure in prep for Micron. The RR spur will also need to be preped prior to construction, I would think, since it was a big factor in Micron accepting the site. I do not believe anything has been done on that front presently.
As I said previously all these physical construction things can be done fairly rapidly once started.

The bigger picture what grade of semiconducter is being projected for production in this facility. The high end chips are obviously more difficult to manufacture. The best machinery available for their production is manufactured in the Netherlands, and what is the lead time for getting that production machinery. The actual building construction is secondary to getting the hardware to produce high end chips.

Oh by the way each machine costs approx. 140 million dollars.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Which goes back to National Grid starting to upgrade their infrastructure in prep for Micron. The RR spur will also need to be preped prior to construction, I would think, since it was a big factor in Micron accepting the site. I do not believe anything has been done on that front presently.
As I said previously all these physical construction things can be done fairly rapidly once started.

The bigger picture what grade of semiconducter is being projected for production in this facility. The high end chips are obviously more difficult to manufacture. The best machinery available for their production is manufactured in the Netherlands, and what is the lead time for getting that production machinery. The actual building construction is secondary to getting the hardware to produce high end chips.

Oh by the way each machine costs approx. 140 million dollars.

More low end chips, not high end. ASML makes parts of those expensive machines in CT too.

 

[SUbear]

More low end chips, not high end. ASML makes parts of those expensive machines in CT too.

Very small market for low end chips, you may be correct but if so why bother.

Military requires high end chips, and part of this was to enable us to not be dependent on ROC for those chips, if what you say is true this would be a total boondogle. It would completely defeat any need for this facility. Not to say you are wrong because it would not be the first time government did the least beneficial thing.

 

[CousCuse]

By the time that plant is up to production, AI robots and androids will be available to do all the jobs.

 

[SUbear]

More low end chips, not high end. ASML makes parts of those expensive machines in CT too.

Wilton CT does not make the machines only some conponants used in their manufacture.

 

[sutomcat]

More low end chips, not high end. ASML makes parts of those expensive machines in CT too.

Don’t mean to single you out Richmond but I gotta reply to someone and chose one of your posts. This is a response to a number of posts here.

Micron is absolutely going to use EUVs made by ASML in their fabs in Clay.

They are going to be making DRAM at the Clay facility.

They plan to start using EUVs to build for DRAMs for the first time (this is an emerging technology for DRAMs) in 2024. Their two biggest competitors already are using EUVs to build some of their DRAMs.

There is an enormous need for DRAM in the world and as things like AI ramp up, the needs are only going to become more acute.

https://electronics360.globalspec.com/article/18157/94-of-dram-market-controlled-by-three-companies#:~:text=SK%20Hynix%20was%20second%20overall,its%2010%20nm%20process%20technology.

‘Mind-boggling’ machines are headed for Micron’s Clay fabs, and so are the world’s top chip suppliers

 

[SUbear]

Don’t mean to single you out Richmond but I gotta reply to someone and chose one of your posts. This is a response to a number of posts here.

Micron is absolutely going to use EUVs made by ASML in their fabs in Clay.

They are going to be making DRAM at the Clay facility.

They plan to start using EUVs to build for DRAMs for the first time (this is an emerging technology for DRAMs) in 2024. Their two biggest competitors already are using EUVs to build some of their DRAMs.

There is an enormous need for DRAM in the world and as things like AI ramp up, the needs are only going to become more acute.

https://electronics360.globalspec.com/article/18157/94-of-dram-market-controlled-by-three-companies#:~:text=SK%20Hynix%20was%20second%20overall,its%2010%20nm%20process%20technology.

‘Mind-boggling’ machines are headed for Micron’s Clay fabs, and so are the world’s top chip suppliers

You are the man Tom.

 

[SUbear]

Don’t mean to single you out Richmond but I gotta reply to someone and chose one of your posts. This is a response to a number of posts here.

Micron is absolutely going to use EUVs made by ASML in their fabs in Clay.

They are going to be making DRAM at the Clay facility.

They plan to start using EUVs to build for DRAMs for the first time (this is an emerging technology for DRAMs) in 2024. Their two biggest competitors already are using EUVs to build some of their DRAMs.

There is an enormous need for DRAM in the world and as things like AI ramp up, the needs are only going to become more acute.

https://electronics360.globalspec.com/article/18157/94-of-dram-market-controlled-by-three-companies#:~:text=SK%20Hynix%20was%20second%20overall,its%2010%20nm%20process%20technology.

‘Mind-boggling’ machines are headed for Micron’s Clay fabs, and so are the world’s top chip suppliers

If I have this right, then each FAB would require at least one EUV at 140 mil each. Plan calls for potentially 4 FABS depending on build out and market. I still believe the major delays on construction are employee training and lead time for any required EUVs. I can not imagine a 140 mil item can be obtained without a considerable lead.

 

[SUbear]

If I have this right, then each FAB would require at least one EUV at 140 mil each. Plan calls for potentially 4 FABS depending on build out and market. I still believe the major delays on construction are employee training and lead time for any required EUVs. I can not imagine a 140 mil item can be obtained without a considerable lead.

I have found out no specific lead time, however ASLM can only supply 60% of its orders for EUVs this year.
They say there is a 20 month window from instalation to actual start of production.
All this from info on the internet.

 

[Moontan]

By the time that plant is up to production, AI robots and androids will be available to do all the jobs.

While the robots root for UMass in the MAC B1G.

 

[SWC75]

Could we have a glossary of the acronyms, please?

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

Could we have a glossary of the acronyms, please?

The link Tom posted is a good starting point. He and SUbear can correct me, but I believe DRAM is just computer "RAM" but with "dynamic" in front of it. DRAM uses an external refresh circuit to restore electric charges (data) to memory capacitors that would normally dissipate.

EUV is "extreme" ultraviolet lithography .. a way of producing computer circuit boards (called semiconductor wafers) that is accurate to 2nm, versus DUV (deep UVL accurate to 7nm).

ASLM is a Dutch computer company. It builds complex machines that use photolithography to make computer wafers. Photolithography is a process using light to transfer a pattern onto a wafer.

Really cool stuff, and even cooler that it's happening in central NY.

EUV vs DUV technology - Google Search

 

[FrancoPizza]

If I have this right, then each FAB would require at least one EUV at 140 mil each. Plan calls for potentially 4 FABS depending on build out and market. I still believe the major delays on construction are employee training and lead time for any required EUVs. I can not imagine a 140 mil item can be obtained without a considerable lead.

Why not offer 50,000 hardworking, educated Tawianese a chance to immigrate and settle in beautiful CNY and pursue the American Dream? On one condition: they purchase and attend SU men's basketball and football games.

 

[GoSU96]

Why not offer 50,000 hardworking, educated Tawianese a chance to immigrate and settle in beautiful CNY and pursue the American Dream? On one condition: they purchase and attend SU men's basketball and football games.

billions in subsidies to bring in foreign labor?

how on the nose for 2024

stupid


and there are very few on this board that has spent more time in Taiwan than me. nothing against them.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Heater, out of curiosity, what do you see happening? Are you saying Micron is not going to build any of the four fabs planned?

Only one?

Some other number?

Honestly I think they will get 1 or 2 built.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Why do you say it won’t play out ? What is your reasoning behind your statement? Living near there does not give someone expertise to say it won’t work.

Because I worked in the semiconductor industry and talent attraction will be the biggest problem. That's why.

 

[GoSU96]

Because I worked in the semiconductor industry and talent attraction will be the biggest problem. That's why.

What’s the issue with talent attraction. What are the skill mixes needed that are such a barrier?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Because I worked in the semiconductor industry and talent attraction will be the biggest problem. That's why.

It hasn't been too big of a lift for Global Foundries and they are expanding as well. The Boise Metropolitan area is roughly the same size as Syracuse and there's 5000 people employed there.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

What’s the issue with talent attraction. What are the skill mixes needed that are such a barrier?

Seems like there are even more plugged in people that have industry experience than I but

Hourly production and do'ers can be trained but it isn't easy.

The gap will exist in the Engineers. Principal and Sr. Principal engineers or fellows are not going to be cheap by any means and getting people to move here I just believe will be a challenge at the clip needed. These processes are so technical that it just requires a skill that not many people have.

I think people have ran with my comment and said i was being negative. I want it to succeed for our area and community as much as anyone. I am just saying that its not popping up a "normalized" manufacturing plant.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

Because I worked in the semiconductor industry and talent attraction will be the biggest problem. That's why.

The labor market may be tight, but there's a huge pool of technical talent along the NYS thruway - UB, U of R, RIT, SU, Cornell, SUNY Albany, RPI, etc. I would think this was one of the major reasons for siting the plant in the CNY region.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Seems like there are even more plugged in people that have industry experience than I but

Hourly production and do'ers can be trained but it isn't easy.

The gap will exist in the Engineers. Principal and Sr. Principal engineers or fellows are not going to be cheap by any means and getting people to move here I just believe will be a challenge at the clip needed. These processes are so technical that it just requires a skill that not many people have.

I think people have ran with my comment and said i was being negative. I want it to succeed for our area and community as much as anyone. I am just saying that its not popping up a "normalized" manufacturing plant.

Thanks. I thought you were saying this was not going to happen at all. I think it's a guarantee at least 2 get built. After that it depends how hiring happens at first.

 

[sutomcat]

Seems like there are even more plugged in people that have industry experience than I but

Hourly production and do'ers can be trained but it isn't easy.

The gap will exist in the Engineers. Principal and Sr. Principal engineers or fellows are not going to be cheap by any means and getting people to move here I just believe will be a challenge at the clip needed. These processes are so technical that it just requires a skill that not many people have.

I think people have ran with my comment and said i was being negative. I want it to succeed for our area and community as much as anyone. I am just saying that its not popping up a "normalized" manufacturing plant.

One of the reasons Micron was attracted to locating this plant in upstate NY is because of the proliferation of outstanding engineering colleges in the area. It is a vastly different situation that what they have had to deal with in Idaho.

There are many really good engineering school nearby.

RIT, RPI, Clarkson, Cornell, Rochester, SUNY Buffalo, SUNY Binghamton, SUNY Albany, Syracuse, SUNY Utica, Alfred, USF (great environmental programs).

Columbia, NYU, SUNY StonyBrook and many others are also not far away.

I think it is going to be great for the upstate NY economy to retain a lot more of of best and brightest college graduates locally.

 

[Cusefan69]

One of the reasons Micron was attracted to locating this plant in upstate NY is because of the proliferation of outstanding engineering colleges in the area. It is a vastly different situation that what they have had to deal with in Idaho.

There are many really good engineering school nearby.

RIT, RPI, Clarkson, Cornell, Rochester, SUNY Buffalo, SUNY Binghamton, SUNY Albany, Syracuse, SUNY Utica, Alfred, USF (great environmental programs).

Columbia, NYU, SUNY StonyBrook and many others are also not far away.

I think it is going to be great for the upstate NY economy to retain a lot more of of best and brightest college graduates locally.

Micron will also poach from other businesses as well and those businesses will have some of the backfill burden.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Thanks. I thought you were saying this was not going to happen at all. I think it's a guarantee at least 2 get built. After that it depends how hiring happens at first.

agree

 

[GoSU96]

Seems like there are even more plugged in people that have industry experience than I but

Hourly production and do'ers can be trained but it isn't easy.

The gap will exist in the Engineers. Principal and Sr. Principal engineers or fellows are not going to be cheap by any means and getting people to move here I just believe will be a challenge at the clip needed. These processes are so technical that it just requires a skill that not many people have.

I think people have ran with my comment and said i was being negative. I want it to succeed for our area and community as much as anyone. I am just saying that its not popping up a "normalized" manufacturing plant.

Why the need for a large number of resident engineers ? There won’t be development work, it’s a fabrication facility as I understand it.