Mike Hopkins and UW

[Chip]

Hitting the bottle this morning?

Well, it's Friday.

 

[RF2044]

His biggest asset would've been the ability to recruit to SU and whatever loyalty he could've gotten for a staff.

Like a lot of things in life timing. It was missed for him.

Completely agree. Things might have unfolded differently had JB stuck to the succession plan, and Hop had taken over. I think it's a good bet that we would have landed Stewart, and maybe others that would have changed the trajectory of the program and stopped the decline.

Or maybe Hop would have struggled, like he's doing at UW. We'll never know.

He's such a great guy -- I'd like to believe the former. But losses like Cal Baptist demonstrate that his coaching capabilities are questionable, and that he's damaged goods at this point.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Coahing hires are so hit or miss, but there's been a few who were homeruns right out of the gate. Tommy Lloyd and Chris Beard seem like two who are on the right path. I have no idea if Syracuse can right the ship, but I've had enough of the Boeheim tree for a while.

Everyone knew Chris Beard was good based on what he did at Texas Tech. Just to play devils advocate a little bit we are about a month out from people telling us that Kenny Payne was a can't miss hire and well here we are with Louisville. Most of it is a complete crapshoot.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Completely agree. Things might have unfolded differently had JB stuck to the succession plan, and Hop had taken over. I think it's a good bet that we would have landed Stewart, and maybe others that would have changed the trajectory of the program and stopped the decline.

Or maybe Hop would have struggled, like he's doing at UW. We'll never know.

He's such a great guy -- I'd like to believe the former. But losses like Cal Baptist demonstrate that his coaching capabilities are questionable, and that he's damaged goods at this point.

Remind me what year was it that would have been hops first. If it was post 2016 (I think it was) then the other thing to consider is that he probably wouldn’t have been any worse than JBs results at Cuse and we’d probably have better players now to boot. Unfortunately, we wouldn’t know that - meaning we would not know the alternative which is the current situation - so he may have wound up getting fired anyway.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Remind me what year was it that would have been hops first. If it was post 2016 (I think it was) then the other thing to consider is that he probably wouldn’t have been any worse than JBs results at Cuse and we’d probably have better players now to boot. Unfortunately, we wouldn’t know that - meaning we would not know the alternative which is the current situation - so he may have wound up getting fired anyway.

That would have been a good time to pass the baton coming off the FF run with the Syracuse brand still mostly intact on the recruiting trail.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Everyone knew Chris Beard was good based on what he did at Texas Tech. Just to play devils advocate a little bit we are about a month out from people telling us that Kenny Payne was a can't miss hire and well here we are with Louisville. Most of it is a complete crapshoot.

Yeah, I'm not sure who was really advocating for Payne, but that's just my point I guess. I don't know who would be a great replacement, but I know who I want to stay away from for a little while.

Duke and UNC have new coaches but they have a helluva support network of businesses and boosters who are going to be damn sure that Davis and Scheyer aren't faced with talent deficiencies.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yeah, I'm not sure who was really advocating for Payne, but that's just my point I guess. I don't know who would be a great replacement, but I know who I want to stay away from for a little while.

Duke and UNC have new coaches but they have a helluva support network of businesses and boosters who are going to be damn sure that Davis and Scheyer aren't faced with talent deficiencies.

They made their transition at a time of program strength. We missed the boat here.

 

[MikeSU02]

Well, it's Friday.

I promise you there are people on my block drinking mimosas this morning. Come to the 10024 and drop in a hot brunch spot and you'll have friends to drink with. They'll likely be rich early retirees gossiping about who is being written about in some society tell all book, but they'll be there!

 

[Chip]

I promise you there are people on my block drinking mimosas this morning. Come to the 10024 and drop in a hot brunch spot and you'll have friends to drink with. They'll likely be rich early retirees gossiping about who is being written about in some society tell all book, but they'll be there!

Not a day goes by that I don't think about being an early retiree.

 

[MikeSU02]

Not a day goes by that I don't think about being an early retiree.

Enjoy:

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

That would have been a good time to pass the baton coming off the FF run with the Syracuse brand still mostly intact on the recruiting trail.

Has any program ever opened the season with three straight one-point losses? And to tomato cans, no less.

 

[Dave]

That would have been a good time to pass the baton coming off the FF run with the Syracuse brand still mostly intact on the recruiting trail.

Thank God we didn’t take advantage of that opportunity.

 

[SWC75]

How many of these games fit the mold of a mid-major with a veteran line-up getting an early win against a power conference team with a kaleidoscopic line-up?

 

[grepal]

Yeah, I'm not sure who was really advocating for Payne, but that's just my point I guess. I don't know who would be a great replacement, but I know who I want to stay away from for a little while.

Duke and UNC have new coaches but they have a helluva support network of businesses and boosters who are going to be damn sure that Davis and Scheyer aren't faced with talent deficiencies.

Duke did well, after Dean Smith retired North Carolina really struggled until Roy Williams came back there. Indiana has not been the same since Knight left

 

[Fly Rodder]

Duke did well, after Dean Smith retired North Carolina really struggled until Roy Williams came back there. Indiana has not been the same since Knight left

Not disagreeing with you. Although Indiana is top-15 this season already and never had a had a stretch of more than 3 seasons without being ranked during conference play. Syracuse is on its way to its 9th straight season without being ranked in conference play.

 

[samspann1]

Hop is not a good bench coach. I might even go farther and say he’s really bad.

So, the original succession fan would have been a bust?

 

[hoopsupstate]

So, the original succession fan would have been a bust?

I think he showed some cracks in his armor when he filled in for JB’s suspension. Most people, including Bilas said the worst case would be Hop going 7-2. I think he went 4-5. He didn’t have the ”I’m in charge“ demeanor on the sidelines. He didn’t exude confidence. I didn’t see consistent expectations from his players.

 

[Orangezoo]

Not that it matters much but that Cal Baptist team features a number of experienced guys including productive transfers from other equal or bigger programs... including the second leading scorer from Loyola Marymount, grad transfer who was a productive role player at Utah, 3rd year productive guy from south dakota, third year backup C from Gtown and a 4th year double digit scorer from UNH.

Plus an experienced crew of their own. Definitely didn't expect to see a roster like that from a completely unknown program.

 

[Millhouse]

Not that it matters much but that Cal Baptist team features a number of experienced guys including productive transfers from other equal or bigger programs... including the second leading scorer from Loyola Marymount, grad transfer who was a productive role player at Utah, 3rd year productive guy from south dakota, third year backup C from Gtown and a 4th year double digit scorer from UNH.

Plus an experienced crew of their own. Definitely didn't expect to see a roster like that from a completely unknown program.

I wonder if teams are going to be more like JB with not going deep into the bench.

You're never going give bench players enough minutes to keep them from finding starting spots so why bother, just keep your starters happy and hope for the best.

I don't know how any team will have depth - who wants to sit?

 

[JustPherU]

Duke did well, after Dean Smith retired North Carolina really struggled until Roy Williams came back there. Indiana has not been the same since Knight left

After Dean retired they went to the NCAA tournament 3 out of the next 4 years and made it to two final fours. Matt Dougherty had one brutal season and then a mediocre year before he was let go.

 

[Orangezoo]

I wonder if teams are going to be more like JB with not going deep into the bench.

You're never going give bench players enough minutes to keep them from finding starting spots so why bother, just keep your starters happy and hope for the best.

I don't know how any team will have depth - who wants to sit?

The programs with the most NIL collectives I fully expect will be fine to run a deep bench. As we know that won't be a long list and thus I figure your theory is accurate given those other programs simply accept reality and that playing guys just for development vs winning and/or development isn't going to help them.

It also questions JBs logic with this most recent class too. Why focus so much on them when reality is we will lose 2 or 3?

I still expect we will have some parity but as the new NIL driven NCAA major sports model matures... the gap will grow further and parity is reduced to resembling cfb more and more.

 

[PoppyHart]

Has any program ever opened the season with three straight one-point losses? And to tomato cans, no less.

Yes, it happened back in 1980-81. I forget who.

 

[cuseincincy]

I think he needs to commit to shaving the head. He can pull it off. He's still hanging onto that hair style that now starts so much further back.

If my head didn't look like a watermelon that's been stabbed a couple dozen times, I'd do the same thing. (plus my wife said if I try it, one of us is leaving this house).

Me: "Honey, what would you think if I shaved my head."
Loving Wife: "I'm not sure I'd notice."

 

[djorange1989]

In Hop's defense, he did win 2 PAC12 COY awards.

But - that was primarily with players left over from Romar, and/or a few guys he had existing relationships with that were built thru his time at Cuse.

Now he has neither of those, and the results are telling.

It's quite possible he might have done better if he'd gotten to take over at Syracuse when it was originally intended to occur.

However - that ship has now long since sailed, and his east coast recruiting relationships have all faded into the past.

Wildhack would be committing AD malfeasance if he doesn't do a proper National search for the next Men's hoops coach.
There is ZERO point in artificially limiting the talent pool to "was a former Cuse hoops player".

And yeah - maybe it ends up being Red (or Hop) anyway, but you MUST make them compete for the job against the field, NOT just hand it to them because they are alums who played for and coached under JAB.

Programs like UNC and Dook can go with the "continuity hire" because they have ongoing high level success they want to maintain.

We've been in a decade-long decline, and it appears to be accelerating.
The last thing we need now is more of the same that got us to this point.
The definition of insanity...

outstanding post, dead on. I have zero confidence in ADJW going against JBs wishes of keeping it in the family, but that is 100% what he needs to do.

 

[kirbivore]

Hop losing to Cal Baptist makes Colgate seem a little better. Can Red really do any worse than either Hop or JB

At this point its all fruit from the poisonous tree. SU hoops needs to be gutted.