Mike Messere

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#26
To an admitted outsider, there seem to be way too many things "that don't compute."

1) A team that "quit a long time ago" makes it to the state championship? Huh?
2) Every single member of the team failed to respond to Messere's coaching practices? Huh?
3) A man who connected with kids across multiple decades suddenly can't? Huh?
4) The kids who "can't be reached" seem to show remarkable class in answering media questions after the game? Huh?
5) The kids (and the parents) who joined Messere's program and its famous requirements suddenly didn't know what they were signing up for? Huh?

On the other hand, as an old fogey myself, I do concede that old folks lose perspective, flexibility, and even a sense of humor as they get older. This seems a sad conclusion to an amazing story.
 

OttoinGrotto

Professor Irwin Corey
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#27
To an admitted outsider, there seem to be way too many things "that don't compute."

1) A team that "quit a long time ago" makes it to the state championship? Huh?
2) Every single member of the team failed to respond to Messere's coaching practices? Huh?
3) A man who connected with kids across multiple decades suddenly can't? Huh?
4) The kids who "can't be reached" seem to show remarkable class in answering media questions after the game? Huh?
5) The kids (and the parents) who joined Messere's program and its famous requirements suddenly didn't know what they were signing up for? Huh?

On the other hand, as an old fogey myself, I do concede that old folks lose perspective, flexibility, and even a sense of humor as they get older. This seems a sad conclusion to an amazing story.
Good recap of the oddities.

I remember Coach Messere used to be adament that when his team lost, it was his failure, not his players.

So on the last game of his career he takes a hard left?
 
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#28
Part of me thinks that the writer of the article had an agenda. Sure Coach Messere should not have said what he did and is at fault. Seems to be a trend at Syracuse.com where they want to create drama and clicks by controversial stories.
 
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#29
Good recap of the oddities.

I remember Coach Messere used to be adament that when his team lost, it was his failure, not his players.

So on the last game of his career he takes a hard left?

Yeah which speaks volumes as to what was going on this season, whatever happened this season it clearly has been a rough year for coach/players. Messere has always been the coach that kids appreciate more after they have left the program for a few years but seems to be held in very high regard by the vast majority of his former players even ones that may have not always agreed with his approach when they played for him but it was always done his way and I don't think kids or parents chose to dispute much until recently. Sucks to see this happen at the end of a great career
 
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#30
Part of me thinks that the writer of the article had an agenda. Sure Coach Messere should not have said what he did and is at fault. Seems to be a trend at Syracuse.com where they want to create drama and clicks by controversial stories.
Coach Messere should not have said what he did, and is at fault, and that shows the writer had an agenda and that syr.com wants to create drama? Huh?
 
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#32
Could be wrong but maybe the writer led Messere in that direction and he took the bait.
The difference between this team and most of the teams we've had that have done well is the mental talent,'' he said. "The mental talent is not there. They don't have it mentally. They refused to have it. They've been a group together a long time. They feel they know how to play the game and how it should be played. And sometimes they can't get away from that.''

Before the fourth quarter began, Messere lambasted his players and told them the poor effort was just a continuation of the attitude they'd shown all year.

"They quit a long time ago because they were not listening,'' Messere said. "That's what I said to them. You quit a long time ago because you didn't follow directions. You did what you wanted to do, and how do you like it? I've dealt with it all year long, and I warned them this is what was going to happen. They don't have that self-discipline to do the right thing, the right time, the right way.
That’s some bait I guess.

It’s also similar to remarks he made when syr.com first reported he was retiring back in the Spring of 2017.
 
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#34
Poor, incendiary journalism:

"Do you think the team quit today, I mean they just got blown out 15-2"

(waving hand) "Ah, they quit a long time ago, when they didn't listen or buy-in to the system"

"Kids, the Coach just said you quit, what do you think about that?"

Headline: Messere Says Team Quit in Blowout State Final

Seems like there was a lot going on this year. Have seen some stuff from the Superintendent that is just unbelievable...talk of generational differences, kids under a lot of pressure, etc

And here I'd thought learning to perform under pressure WAS the whole point?!?! Silly me.

I know which side of this one I fall on, personally. Not a difficult one.
 
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#36
To an admitted outsider, there seem to be way too many things "that don't compute."

1) A team that "quit a long time ago" makes it to the state championship? Huh?
2) Every single member of the team failed to respond to Messere's coaching practices? Huh?
3) A man who connected with kids across multiple decades suddenly can't? Huh?
4) The kids who "can't be reached" seem to show remarkable class in answering media questions after the game? Huh?
5) The kids (and the parents) who joined Messere's program and its famous requirements suddenly didn't know what they were signing up for? Huh?

On the other hand, as an old fogey myself, I do concede that old folks lose perspective, flexibility, and even a sense of humor as they get older. This seems a sad conclusion to an amazing story.
It’s about buying in. If you’re told to stand a certain way you stand a certain way. If you don’t want to then you’re not buying in. It’s ultimately how he created such a well oiled machine.

But the decline over the years is evident and the only thing that’s changed imo is the players and parents.
 
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#39
Im a professional who has enough sense not to say something akin to what I quoted in post 22.

And apparently the kids he coaches are too, as they were much classier in their remarks.
What was REPORTED seemed a bit classier in their remarks. We don't know what was said, we know what the click-hungry, incendiary reporter wanted us to know. Big difference.

But you can piece together what WAS quoted from the players in a few articles and a private email from school admins that's circulating and learn that, indeed, there was a healthy does of generational (millenial) entitlement going on.

It's all good, nothing lasts forever, but to say these forces aren't real is naive.
 
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#40
What was REPORTED seemed a bit classier in their remarks. We don't know what was said, we know what the click-hungry, incendiary reporter wanted us to know. Big difference.

But you can piece together what WAS quoted from the players in a few articles and a private email from school admins that's circulating and learn that, indeed, there was a healthy does of generational (millenial) entitlement going on.

It's all good, nothing lasts forever, but to say these forces aren't real is naive.
Good point. The kids said more inflammatory things but the reporters withheld that because it wouldn’t drive clicks. Seems legit.
 
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#41
Im a professional who has enough sense not to say something akin to what I quoted in post 22.

And apparently the kids he coaches are too, as they were much classier in their remarks.
MM spoke his mind and I don’t see anything wrong with that. Doesn’t have to accomplish anything but sometimes it’s good to tell into like it is. Goes back agan to how sensitive everyone is.

Howe’s comment was just as embarrassing imo. He’s proud of the way they played having just got their @sses kicked?? omg who thinks like that? Ive been on the receiving end of a couple of beatdowns and that’s the last thing me or any of my teammates would’ve thought or said. We would’ve been pissed and owned it and told the reporter we played like sht. But that was 30 years ago.
 
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#42
Good point. The kids said more inflammatory things but the reporters withheld that because it wouldn’t drive clicks. Seems legit.
Actually, yes, in this case the Coach's comments are enough to drive legions more clicks than "some kids who just got pounded were salty".

You are probably missing the broader points: 1) kids/parents are MASSIVELY different than they once were; 2) many things like this have been said by coaches to reporters off the record, but Journalistic integrity has gone flying out the window and now it's all written down.
 

OttoinGrotto

Professor Irwin Corey
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#44
Actually, yes, in this case the Coach's comments are enough to drive legions more clicks than "some kids who just got pounded were salty".

You are probably missing the broader points: 1) kids/parents are MASSIVELY different than they once were; 2) many things like this have been said by coaches to reporters off the record, but Journalistic integrity has gone flying out the window and now it's all written down.
I could hear your fist shaking through my monitor, the wifi, and your monitor.
 
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#45
I could hear your fist shaking through my monitor, the wifi, and your monitor.
I am not old, and yes I coach lots, and yes things have changed dramatically, without question, and if you disagree with that, then you must not coach or be involved with athletics. (not being a jerk, just stating what is an unprovable but universal fact).

Anyway, that article would not have been written 20 years ago.
 

OttoinGrotto

Professor Irwin Corey
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#46
I am not old, and yes I coach lots, and yes things have changed dramatically, without question, and if you disagree with that, then you must not coach or be involved with athletics. (not being a jerk, just stating what is an unprovable but universal fact).

Anyway, that article would not have been written 20 years ago.
Who said anything about being old?

Also, you really went to unprovable but universal fact?

You went there?
 
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#47
It’s about buying in. If you’re told to stand a certain way you stand a certain way. If you don’t want to then you’re not buying in. It’s ultimately how he created such a well oiled machine.

But the decline over the years is evident and the only thing that’s changed imo is the players and parents.
I think something else changed over the years. The competition. Everyone else got better. It's probably easier to buy in when you're racking up state championships. Similarly, it's probably easier for a coach to disregard a small lack of buy-in when the team is rolling. I don't really know the situation. I think many of the comments here supporting Messere are very convincing and while some might think that Messere showed a lack of class, it's very possible that Messere doesn't care and he thinks that what he said was just another part of the learning process for the players.

Can anyone give a little insight into this? Was the buy-in that he didn't get from the players having to do with the way they play, the work they put in during practice, the work they put in outside of practice???
 
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#48
This thread is interesting in that it happens to every coach who stays into their later years. It's a fear I have with JB all the time. There are not many examples of coaches in their golden years having golden ends to their careers.
NOt close to the situation at all but Messere in a way contributed to the one sport concept as I think it was at WG where once lacrosse started you had to stop all winter sports - playoffs or no. Probably only impacted hockey but still forced a choice.
 
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#49
This thread is interesting in that it happens to every coach who stays into their later years. It's a fear I have with JB all the time. There are not many examples of coaches in their golden years having golden ends to their careers.
NOt close to the situation at all but Messere in a way contributed to the one sport concept as I think it was at WG where once lacrosse started you had to stop all winter sports - playoffs or no. Probably only impacted hockey but still forced a choice.
Not 100 percent that is true. I went there and a kid I graduated with played Bball and lax and I don't remember an issue playing bball. Also a kid that was a year older than me also did the same and that year I believe the bball program went to states and did fairly well. Both individuals played college lax for big time programs.

I will also say that he ran a strict program and during prom or ball the lax kids had curfew from him. Not their parents.
 


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