More about salary than facilities...

[Chip]

To me, I think it's becoming clear that this was basically all about Marrone's salary (and likely that of his staff) above anything else. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but until I hear it from Marrone's or TGD's mouth, it's hard not to come to that conclusion. And before I go further, I'm not at all saying I blame him. I'd do the same.

Facilities upgrades - Why would any coach return to his alma mater, which he genuinely loved at the time, and then give up after 4 years because facilities promises weren't kept? Timing makes no sense, when you factor: 1) The team depth and performance is finally ready to take off, as shown by how we finished the year, winning a bowl game, one of the best offenses in the country. 2) Moving to the ACC next year. Who gives up now? Take this thing out to drive.

Empty Seats - See Facility Upgrades. It's all the same thing. Starting to get rolling, we're finally rid of that uninteresting Big East schedule.

If lack of donations were the issue, the reasons I stated are why you wait and see where it goes now.

I just don't buy that either of these were factors. At least not yet.

Rob Drummond, in an article I read somewhere, is a close friend of Doug's, and made mention that we don't know the whole picture, from how Marrone was treated by the administration. Then said "Doug has to take care of his family". Pretty much says it all.

Then Go, who's info I believe, said that his salary went from 1.3M to somewhere just under $2M. I don't believe that's market for a coach who has proven himself, especially now as we enter a big boy conference.

Maybe SU is in a wait and see mode, and Marrone didn't want to be caught up in it. Go to the NFL now, get the payday while you can. I think we all know there was a part of him who wanted back in to that league.

So now the question is, does this make SU more likely to go the internal hire route, and keep the payroll at that level. Or do they think they need to change course after Marrone left, and up the budget for HC (to at least $2.5M) and all the assistants, specifically the coordinators.

Interesting times ahead...

 

[Millhouse]

To me, I think it's becoming clear that this was basically all about Marrone's salary (and likely that of his staff) above anything else. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but until I hear it from Marrone's or TGD's mouth, it's hard not to come to that conclusion. And before I go further, I'm not at all saying I blame him. I'd do the same.

Facilities upgrades - Why would any coach return to his alma mater, which he genuinely loved at the time, and then give up after 4 years because facilities promises weren't kept? Timing makes no sense, when you factor: 1) The team depth and performance is finally ready to take off, as shown by how we finished the year, winning a bowl game, one of the best offenses in the country. 2) Moving to the ACC next year. Who gives up now? Take this thing out to drive.

Empty Seats - See Facility Upgrades. It's all the same thing. Starting to get rolling, we're finally rid of that uninteresting Big East schedule.

If lack of donations were the issue, the reasons I stated are why you wait and see where it goes now.

I just don't buy that either of these were factors. At least not yet.

Rob Drummond, in an article I read somewhere, is a close friend of Doug's, and made mention that we don't know the whole picture, from how Marrone was treated by the administration. Then said "Doug has to take care of his family". Pretty much says it all.

Then Go, who's info I believe, said that his salary went from 1.3M to somewhere just under $2M. I don't believe that's market for a coach who has proven himself, especially now as we enter a big boy conference.

Maybe SU is in a wait and see mode, and Marrone didn't want to be caught up in it. Go to the NFL now, get the payday while you can. I think we all know there was a part of him who wanted back in to that league.

So now the question is, does this make SU more likely to go the internal hire route, and keep the payroll at that level. Or do they think they need to change course after Marrone left, and up the budget for HC (to at least $2.5M) and all the assistants, specifically the coordinators.

Interesting times ahead...

I wonder how much the Bills are paying him though. Not all NFL HC jobs pay the same. I think they paid Gailey in Geritol and big thick toilet seat pillows.

 

[orangenirvana]

I also think it dawned on Marrone shortly after he arrived that he belonged in the NFL. Probably missed being able to focus only on football. Maybe getting rejections from recruit after recruit wore on him.

SU fans may be taking this too personally. Not that I blame anyone, but I just don't think it's about SU as much as it's about the NFL.

 

[shandeezy7]

I'm undecided on whether or not Marrone really left because of the lack of investment in the football program from the administration, or if he's using that reason as his excuse to get back in the NFL. I've heard a bunch of different things, so it's hard to know what to believe really.

 

[PhatOrange]

I also think it dawned on Marrone shortly after he arrived that he belonged in the NFL. Probably missed being able to focus only on football. Maybe getting rejections from recruit after recruit wore on him.

SU fans may be taking this too personally. Not that I blame anyone, but I just don't think it's about SU as much as it's about the NFL.

I do believe he was no fan of recruiting. Just an assumption but Ibelieve it wore on him, I think he hated the slimy-ness of it and I don't think he liked having to kiss their prima donna @sses.

 

[dollarbill44]

I think this is less about salary and more about him liking coaching in the NFL than in college. There seems to be less BS in the NFL. What I mean by that is that there is no BS with recruitment of players, or more importantly, recruitment of fans. There is no babysitting of players (yes, there are more egos to stroke, but the players live in the real world, not a college microsphere) and teaching them how to be men - he won't have to be a surrogate parent. In the NFL, he has to be a coach and only a coach. If a player screws up his life, it's that player's business. The GM or front office has to handle it.

I think Doug thought coaching SU would be his dream job, but he found out it really wasn't and he maybe thought this would be his best chance to get back to the NFL.

 

[rrlbees]

you're wrong, that was a small part of it.

but i also don't think you will hear all the reasons out of marrones or tgd's mouths. i expect to hear the usual "i love su but this was a great opportunity" type stuff.

 

[Chip]

I think this is less about salary and more about him liking coaching in the NFL than in college. There seems to be less BS in the NFL. What I mean by that is that there is no BS with recruitment of players, or more importantly, recruitment of fans. There is no babysitting of players (yes, there are more egos to stroke, but the players live in the real world, not a college microsphere) and teaching them how to be men - he won't have to be a surrogate parent. In the NFL, he has to be a coach and only a coach. If a player screws up his life, it's that player's business. The GM or front office has to handle it.

I think Doug thought coaching SU would be his dream job, but he found out it really wasn't and he maybe thought this would be his best chance to get back to the NFL.

Well, I don't disagree with that. I said a few times that I think he may want to draft instead of recruit.

But my main point was that I think him leaving over facilities and empty seats just makes no sense at all. None.

As far as managing players, I think the NFL might be harder in many ways. Depends on what you want to deal with. Handing a 22 year old a 7 figure salary isn't exactly the real world. That can be a problem on the field. But yes, there are others who have to join you in dealing with it.

 

[ejz555]

To me, I think it's becoming clear that this was basically all about Marrone's salary (and likely that of his staff) above anything else. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but until I hear it from Marrone's or TGD's mouth, it's hard not to come to that conclusion. And before I go further, I'm not at all saying I blame him. I'd do the same.

Facilities upgrades - Why would any coach return to his alma mater, which he genuinely loved at the time, and then give up after 4 years because facilities promises weren't kept? Timing makes no sense, when you factor: 1) The team depth and performance is finally ready to take off, as shown by how we finished the year, winning a bowl game, one of the best offenses in the country. 2) Moving to the ACC next year. Who gives up now? Take this thing out to drive.

Empty Seats - See Facility Upgrades. It's all the same thing. Starting to get rolling, we're finally rid of that uninteresting Big East schedule.

If lack of donations were the issue, the reasons I stated are why you wait and see where it goes now.

I just don't buy that either of these were factors. At least not yet.

Rob Drummond, in an article I read somewhere, is a close friend of Doug's, and made mention that we don't know the whole picture, from how Marrone was treated by the administration. Then said "Doug has to take care of his family". Pretty much says it all.

Then Go, who's info I believe, said that his salary went from 1.3M to somewhere just under $2M. I don't believe that's market for a coach who has proven himself, especially now as we enter a big boy conference.

Maybe SU is in a wait and see mode, and Marrone didn't want to be caught up in it. Go to the NFL now, get the payday while you can. I think we all know there was a part of him who wanted back in to that league.

So now the question is, does this make SU more likely to go the internal hire route, and keep the payroll at that level. Or do they think they need to change course after Marrone left, and up the budget for HC (to at least $2.5M) and all the assistants, specifically the coordinators.

Interesting times ahead...

There are other reasons not listed in this forum...

 

[KaiserUEO]

I think this is less about salary and more about him liking coaching in the NFL than in college. There seems to be less BS in the NFL. What I mean by that is that there is no BS with recruitment of players, or more importantly, recruitment of fans. There is no babysitting of players (yes, there are more egos to stroke, but the players live in the real world, not a college microsphere) and teaching them how to be men - he won't have to be a surrogate parent. In the NFL, he has to be a coach and only a coach. If a player screws up his life, it's that player's business. The GM or front office has to handle it.

I think Doug thought coaching SU would be his dream job, but he found out it really wasn't and he maybe thought this would be his best chance to get back to the NFL.

this is part 2 of the talent reason.

as far as dream job goes, i think he didnt dream big enough. once he realized he shouldve set his sights higher, he went for it.

Oh Lord

 

[Chip]

There are other reasons not listed in this forum...

Any reason why they can't be listed? So far we have:

1. Kids being picked on at school
2. Salary, for him and for assistants
3. Facility promises not being met
4. Fan apathy
5. Hate mail

He's moving from Syracuse to Buffalo. What's left? We didn't throw in driveway plow service?

 

[All4SU]

i expect to hear the usual "i love su but this was a great opportunity" type stuff.

I do too, largely because I think that statement is accurate.

 

[cuseincincy]

Any reason why they can't be listed? So far we have:

1. Kids being picked on at school
2. Salary, for him and for assistants
3. Facility promises not being met
4. Fan apathy
5. Hate mail

He's moving from Syracuse to Buffalo. What's left? We didn't throw in driveway plow service?

I think you should the whole band uniform issue also. That must have weighed heavily on his mind. Won't have to worry about that in the NFL.

 

[orangecuse]

If he was getting nearly $2m in annual salary in Syracuse, NY, well, for obvious reasons, this is hardly/remotely a factor for being disgruntled in any capacity. So, imo, I believe that his salary had very little to nil to do with his imminent and sudden departure...

 

[billsin01]

I do believe he was no fan of recruiting. Just an assumption but Ibelieve it wore on him, I think he hated the slimy-ness of it and I don't think he liked having to kiss their prima donna @sses.

Yup, I think this is a huge part along with Chip's point on ca$h. I challenge anyone to name one thing that was a public schmooze/fluff fest that DM appeared to enjoy in any way shape or form. Recruiting results, IMO, were decent but there obviously weren't a stream of high-profile guys lining up to get their locker assignments. There were rumors about former players being upset about how they were treated when they came back to basically shoot the stuff. The recruiting day thing got cancelled. Spring practices didn't happen -- at least we have no recorded proof that any of them happened outside of the one in Rochester.

The list goes on and on and my guess is that part of the onus on getting new facilities is a coach glad-handing and back-slapping important alumni. Just doesn't feel like DM to me.

 

[billsin01]

I think Doug thought coaching SU would be his dream job, but he found out it really wasn't and he maybe thought this would be his best chance to get back to the NFL.

Yeah, and while 4 years is a short tenure in some ways, it's enough time to potentially sour on your dream job.

 

[kingtidge]

you're wrong, that was a small part of it.

but i also don't think you will hear all the reasons out of marrones or tgd's mouths. i expect to hear the usual "i love su but this was a great opportunity" type stuff.

Yeah, whatever the real issue(s) are, I doubt we'll ever get true clarification... i.e. when you don't have somethimng nice to say... or, the first rule about fight club...

 

[billsin01]

If he was getting nearly $2m in annual salary in Syracuse, NY, well, for obvious reasons, this is hardly/remotely a factor for being disgruntled in any capacity. So, imo, I believe that his salary had very little to nil to do with his imminent and sudden departure...

I don't know -- regardless of what you make, more money usually sounds pretty good. And don't forget that earning potential is a factor as well. Whatever SU pays going forward it's likely he could, with a bit of success, double it or more in the NFL. It's human to be drawn to that in some way, shape, or form.

 

[xc84]

I agree, in hindsight, Marrone is a career guy and SU was a rung in his career ladder. He said and did the right things etc. to get there. It's not that I and some others think he's some sort of master of deception but more that he's not the exception to the rule. We expect people, in general, to act the way he did. We don't WANT that, but are not surprised when it happens. With Marrone, some of us thought he'd be more of the exception. While maybe not Boeheim (well, who is), he'd be here certainly more than 4 years and lead the program to the next level. Well, he's not that guy. He's more "normal". He's done what many though would happen under a guy like Skip Holtz. In fact, he was Skip Holtz if it turned out that Skip Holtz was a good coach. You always have to look at context when measuring progress. I think Marrone's work stands as significant progress and he leaves the team/program better than he found it and he did an admirable job in 4 years. He didn't finish the job of totally re-building the program and the successor will still have a lot of uphill road to climb. For that reason and all the "dream job" rhetoric, he will not be remembered as fondly as someone like Mac, who left after he had turned the program around and even left a seasoned successor (like him or not). Basically, Marrone turned out to be a good college coach who's dream was to be an NFL coach. Pretty normal stuff. Not the exceptional guy we hoped for.

 

[billsin01]

you're wrong, that was a small part of it.

but i also don't think you will hear all the reasons out of marrones or tgd's mouths. i expect to hear the usual "i love su but this was a great opportunity" type stuff.

I'm not sure why we wouldn't hear it? I mean, if I really felt a strong connection to something like the football program/school I attended (I tend to think really getting too invested in these things is a bit foolish, but that's me) then I subsequently soured and moved on, I'd try to make some sort of statement with my departure that perhaps pulled the veil back on what was actually going on. If I felt fundraising and more administration support was crucial to the future success of my alma mater's football program, I'd use my departure press conference as way to push for those changes. I'm not trying to burn bridges but, assuming I really love that program/school, I am trying to affect change.

 

[orangecuse]

I don't know -- regardless of what you make, more money usually sounds pretty good. And don't forget that earning potential is a factor as well. Whatever SU pays going forward it's likely he could, with a bit of success, double it or more in the NFL. It's human to be drawn to that in some way, shape, or form.

I understand...however, $2m salary at SU did not include his other revenue streams typical of higher profile college coaches, local shows, endorsements, etc. And, who knows, with SU's move to the ACC, etc., his earnings potential had quite of bit of room to grow, especially if he were ever to get SU to an ACC Championship or upper tier bowl game...it certainly appears his potential longevity here far exceeds what is typical for an NFL head coach, let alone, a first timer at that...check the relative statistics. So, likely, over the long haul, he probably would have made more money here...only time will tell I guess...

 

[buffalorange]

I'm not sure why we wouldn't hear it? I mean, if I really felt a strong connection to something like the football program/school I attended (I tend to think really getting too invested in these things is a bit foolish, but that's me) then I subsequently soured and moved on, I'd try to make some sort of statement with my departure that perhaps pulled the veil back on what was actually going on. If I felt fundraising and more administration support was crucial to the future success of my alma mater's football program, I'd use my departure press conference as way to push for those changes. I'm not trying to burn bridges but, assuming I really love that program/school, I am trying to affect change.

Maybe Doug will donate some of his new and greater income to SU for football upgrades!

 

[ithacat]

To me, I think it's becoming clear that this was basically all about Marrone's salary (and likely that of his staff) above anything else. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but until I hear it from Marrone's or TGD's mouth, it's hard not to come to that conclusion. And before I go further, I'm not at all saying I blame him. I'd do the same.

Facilities upgrades - Why would any coach return to his alma mater, which he genuinely loved at the time, and then give up after 4 years because facilities promises weren't kept? Timing makes no sense, when you factor: 1) The team depth and performance is finally ready to take off, as shown by how we finished the year, winning a bowl game, one of the best offenses in the country. 2) Moving to the ACC next year. Who gives up now? Take this thing out to drive.

Empty Seats - See Facility Upgrades. It's all the same thing. Starting to get rolling, we're finally rid of that uninteresting Big East schedule.

If lack of donations were the issue, the reasons I stated are why you wait and see where it goes now.

I just don't buy that either of these were factors. At least not yet.

Rob Drummond, in an article I read somewhere, is a close friend of Doug's, and made mention that we don't know the whole picture, from how Marrone was treated by the administration. Then said "Doug has to take care of his family". Pretty much says it all.

Then Go, who's info I believe, said that his salary went from 1.3M to somewhere just under $2M. I don't believe that's market for a coach who has proven himself, especially now as we enter a big boy conference.

Maybe SU is in a wait and see mode, and Marrone didn't want to be caught up in it. Go to the NFL now, get the payday while you can. I think we all know there was a part of him who wanted back in to that league.

So now the question is, does this make SU more likely to go the internal hire route, and keep the payroll at that level. Or do they think they need to change course after Marrone left, and up the budget for HC (to at least $2.5M) and all the assistants, specifically the coordinators.

Interesting times ahead...

I'm with Drummond...I can't take care of my family on $1.3 million p/a either. If taking care of his family has nothing to do with money, that's entirely different & truly a shame.

Even at $2m a HC is going to be near the bottom of the ACC ladder.

 

[billsin01]

I understand...however, $2m salary at SU did not include his other revenue streams typical of higher profile college coaches, local shows, endorsements, etc. And, who knows, with SU's move to the ACC, etc., his earnings potential had quite of bit of room to grow, especially if he were ever to get SU to an ACC Championship or upper tier bowl game...it certainly appears his potential longevity here far exceeds what is typical for an NFL head coach, let alone, a first timer at that...check the relative statistics. So, likely, over the long haul, he probably would have made more money here...only time will tell I guess...

I don't agree with that. He was going to make more by having a job that paid him 50% less? Coaches shows and endorsements are fine but they come with any head coaching gig. and if he flames out in the NFL you mean to tell me he won't have a few pretty nice opportunities to return to college? Or broadcasting, which can pay a ton?

 

[brandokc]

I believe it had more to do with this boards treatment of BRVNCUSE or whatever his name was.