More about salary than facilities...

[Faegan]

If you had a wiretap on Marrone's office, DG's office and every BOT meeting, you still might not know exactly why Doug left. That's why this board has been so amusing over the last several days. But, alas, that's all part of the fun.

 

[rosconey]

at least su is not on the hook for any salary

he is gone time to move on - no more talk about why -

move on to the next leader of the program and see where we go

 

[Madbiker]

If he wants a bigger payday fine. But don't give us the nonsense of I have to take care of my family stuff as though it's tough to get by making $1.25 mil a year. Please.

 

[All4SU]

I think you should the whole band uniform issue also. That must have weighed heavily on his mind. Won't have to worry about that in the NFL.

He will, however, have to worry about the Buffalo Jill's' uniforms.

 

[richmondcuse03]

He will, however, have to worry about the Buffalo Jill's' uniforms.

They actually have to pay for their own uniforms...which is even worse.

 

[brandokc]

They actually have to pay for their own uniforms...which is even worse.

They must pay by the inch. Explains why they are so skimpy.

 

[Scooch]

I don't understand why people need to be so cryptic as to the reasons why he left.

It's a football program, not the CIA. But whatever.

When you control the mail, you control...INFORMATION!

:bang:

 

[Millhouse]

I don't understand why people need to be so cryptic as to the reasons why he left.

It's a football program, not the CIA. But whatever.

When you control the mail, you control...INFORMATION!

:bang:

i have this feeling no matter how much the peasants like me find out, there will always be another unnamed reason that will be used to bludgeon the administration or the fans

"no no that's not it"

 

[orangecuse]

I don't agree with that. He was going to make more by having a job that paid him 50% less? Coaches shows and endorsements are fine but they come with any head coaching gig. and if he flames out in the NFL you mean to tell me he won't have a few pretty nice opportunities to return to college? Or broadcasting, which can pay a ton?

Is Marrone getting $4mil/yr.? If so, playing devils advocate, say he only lasts 3 years as I cannot see Buffalo giving him anymore than a 4 year contract max at this point (Doug's an unproven commodity at the NFL HC's position). Simple math says $4 x 3 = $12m. At SU, $2m x let's just say 10 years (prior longetivity argument, of course it could be longer too) is $20m. He could certainly return to college if he fails in the NFL, but, imo, would never hold a higher HC position than that of SU. More than likely, if he fails at the NFL HC position, he will be relegated to some assistant level NFL position, which is more typical. With such demotion, his earnings potential significantly decreases as well...In the end, only time will tell...the grass isn't always greener...

In regards to your broadcasting remark, of course he could, but, that isn't the premise of what we are diplomatically debating.

 

[All4SU]

They actually have to pay for their own uniforms...which is even worse.

Even still, that's the kind of thing that could keep him awake at night.

 

[billsin01]

Is Marrone getting $4mil/yr.? If so, playing devils advocate, say he only lasts 3 years as I cannot see Buffalo giving him anymore than a 4 year contract max at this point (Doug's an unproven commodity at the NFL HC's position). Simple math says $4 x 3 = $12m. At SU, $2m x let's just say 10 years (prior longetivity argument, of course it could be longer too) is $20m. He could certainly return to college if he fails in the NFL, but, imo, would never hold a higher HC position than that of SU. More than likely, if he fails at the NFL HC position, he will be relegated to some assistant level NFL position, which is more typical. With such demotion, his earnings potential significantly decreases as well...In the end, only time will tell...the grass isn't always greener...

In regards to your broadcasting remark, of course he could, but, that isn't the premise of what we are diplomatically debating.

I can see what you're saying but aren't you making an awful lot of assumptions. Let's say, for example, that he's a pretty good NFL coach -- then he could easily put together a 15-year career as a head coach. Let's say he's a terrible head coach -- then are we absolutely certain he would have been the head man here for 15 more years? And why couldn't he come back to college if he wanted to? It's not at all unheardof, particularly give that he at least has the rep of a successful college coach. Plus, there's no telling what perks are in a contract as well -- I'd have to imagine there are many more in the NFL.

I can see your argument but I really think, when you're talking future earnings, you're talking potential and there is absolutely no way of ignoring the vast difference in earnings potential of a pro career vs. that of a college career.

 

[cuseincincy]

I don't agree with that. He was going to make more by having a job that paid him 50% less? Coaches shows and endorsements are fine but they come with any head coaching gig. and if he flames out in the NFL you mean to tell me he won't have a few pretty nice opportunities to return to college? Or broadcasting, which can pay a ton?

You've apparently never seen his coaches show or you would not think he has any potential future in broadcasting.

 

[billsin01]

You've apparently never seen his coaches show or you would not think he has any potential future in broadcasting.

Ha! Well, I have heard him speak and would say the same thing, but then I listen to current broadcasters and, well, I'm not ruling anything out

 

[TheCusian]

I also think it dawned on Marrone shortly after he arrived that he belonged in the NFL. Probably missed being able to focus only on football. Maybe getting rejections from recruit after recruit wore on him.

SU fans may be taking this too personally. Not that I blame anyone, but I just don't think it's about SU as much as it's about the NFL.

Hope so.

 

[Orangetradition44]

I've heard from a fairly good source that you are exactly right. As go has said... If he has to deal with all the crap parts of the job, he might as well get paid WELL for it. Surprisingly, I think some of the parts of the job he didn't like was recruiting and constantly worrying about the kids.

To me, I think it's becoming clear that this was basically all about Marrone's salary (and likely that of his staff) above anything else. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but until I hear it from Marrone's or TGD's mouth, it's hard not to come to that conclusion. And before I go further, I'm not at all saying I blame him. I'd do the same.

Facilities upgrades - Why would any coach return to his alma mater, which he genuinely loved at the time, and then give up after 4 years because facilities promises weren't kept? Timing makes no sense, when you factor: 1) The team depth and performance is finally ready to take off, as shown by how we finished the year, winning a bowl game, one of the best offenses in the country. 2) Moving to the ACC next year. Who gives up now? Take this thing out to drive.

Empty Seats - See Facility Upgrades. It's all the same thing. Starting to get rolling, we're finally rid of that uninteresting Big East schedule.

If lack of donations were the issue, the reasons I stated are why you wait and see where it goes now.

I just don't buy that either of these were factors. At least not yet.

Rob Drummond, in an article I read somewhere, is a close friend of Doug's, and made mention that we don't know the whole picture, from how Marrone was treated by the administration. Then said "Doug has to take care of his family". Pretty much says it all.

Then Go, who's info I believe, said that his salary went from 1.3M to somewhere just under $2M. I don't believe that's market for a coach who has proven himself, especially now as we enter a big boy conference.

Maybe SU is in a wait and see mode, and Marrone didn't want to be caught up in it. Go to the NFL now, get the payday while you can. I think we all know there was a part of him who wanted back in to that league.

So now the question is, does this make SU more likely to go the internal hire route, and keep the payroll at that level. Or do they think they need to change course after Marrone left, and up the budget for HC (to at least $2.5M) and all the assistants, specifically the coordinators.

Interesting times ahead...

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree, in hindsight, Marrone is a career guy and SU was a rung in his career ladder. He said and did the right things etc. to get there. It's not that I and some others think he's some sort of master of deception but more that he's not the exception to the rule. We expect people, in general, to act the way he did. We don't WANT that, but are not surprised when it happens. With Marrone, some of us thought he'd be more of the exception. While maybe not Boeheim (well, who is), he'd be here certainly more than 4 years and lead the program to the next level. Well, he's not that guy. He's more "normal". He's done what many though would happen under a guy like Skip Holtz. In fact, he was Skip Holtz if it turned out that Skip Holtz was a good coach. You always have to look at context when measuring progress. I think Marrone's work stands as significant progress and he leaves the team/program better than he found it and he did an admirable job in 4 years. He didn't finish the job of totally re-building the program and the successor will still have a lot of uphill road to climb. For that reason and all the "dream job" rhetoric, he will not be remembered as fondly as someone like Mac, who left after he had turned the program around and even left a seasoned successor (like him or not). Basically, Marrone turned out to be a good college coach who's dream was to be an NFL coach. Pretty normal stuff. Not the exceptional guy we hoped for.

Well, if he's a "career guy", he could have weighed the likelihood that he would have remained employed here for a very long time, versus he could have a very short stay in the NFL since the Bills suck and don't have very good personnel on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I can see what you're saying but aren't you making an awful lot of assumptions. Let's say, for example, that he's a pretty good NFL coach -- then he could easily put together a 15-year career as a head coach. Let's say he's a terrible head coach -- then are we absolutely certain he would have been the head man here for 15 more years? And why couldn't he come back to college if he wanted to? It's not at all unheardof, particularly give that he at least has the rep of a successful college coach. Plus, there's no telling what perks are in a contract as well -- I'd have to imagine there are many more in the NFL.

I can see your argument but I really think, when you're talking future earnings, you're talking potential and there is absolutely no way of ignoring the vast difference in earnings potential of a pro career vs. that of a college career.

How many NFL coaches last 15 years ??? Not very many.

 

[xc84]

Well, if he's a "career guy", he could have weighed the likelihood that he would have remained employed here for a very long time, versus he could have a very short stay in the NFL since the Bills suck and don't have very good personnel on the defensive side of the ball.

Maybe...but not long ago, it was not inconceivable he was in jeopardy of losing his job here. Things change quickly. I also think Marrone does like a challenge and thinks he can turn the Bills around...and if he does, he will be handsomely rewarded with a new job in a bigger profile city of course. He will be with the Jets and say how it's always been his dream to coach a team from his hometown...well, sort of anyways.

 

[xc84]

How many NFL coaches last 15 years ??? Not very many.

True, but 5 years in the NFL might be the same as 10+ at SU from an earnings standpoint.

 

[OttoMets]

I understand...however, $2m salary at SU did not include his other revenue streams typical of higher profile college coaches, local shows, endorsements, etc. And, who knows, with SU's move to the ACC, etc., his earnings potential had quite of bit of room to grow, especially if he were ever to get SU to an ACC Championship or upper tier bowl game...it certainly appears his potential longevity here far exceeds what is typical for an NFL head coach, let alone, a first timer at that...check the relative statistics. So, likely, over the long haul, he probably would have made more money here...only time will tell I guess...

Not only that, but does anyone really think that Marrone will be the Buffalo coach in 2016? 2017?

An NFL job might represent a quick profit, but it has a shelf life. Sticking around at Syracuse, he could average between 7 and 8 wins and spend the next 20 years here. I don't doubt that Marrone could have made a lot more money in Syracuse over the long haul. Boeheim's smart enough to have recognized the same thing.

 

[Scooch]

I've heard from a fairly good source that you are exactly right. As go has said... If he has to deal with all the crap parts of the job, he might as well get paid WELL for it. Surprisingly, I think some of the parts of the job he didn't like was recruiting and constantly worrying about the kids.

Well, geez, how could he have known that his dream job at SU would have included recruiting and worrying about his college-age players?

WHY DID SU HIDE THAT FROM HIM?!?!?!?!

 

[supp]

To me, I think it's becoming clear that this was basically all about Marrone's salary (and likely that of his staff) above anything else. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but until I hear it from Marrone's or TGD's mouth, it's hard not to come to that conclusion. And before I go further, I'm not at all saying I blame him. I'd do the same.

Facilities upgrades - Why would any coach return to his alma mater, which he genuinely loved at the time, and then give up after 4 years because facilities promises weren't kept? Timing makes no sense, when you factor: 1) The team depth and performance is finally ready to take off, as shown by how we finished the year, winning a bowl game, one of the best offenses in the country. 2) Moving to the ACC next year. Who gives up now? Take this thing out to drive.

Empty Seats - See Facility Upgrades. It's all the same thing. Starting to get rolling, we're finally rid of that uninteresting Big East schedule.

If lack of donations were the issue, the reasons I stated are why you wait and see where it goes now.

I just don't buy that either of these were factors. At least not yet.

Rob Drummond, in an article I read somewhere, is a close friend of Doug's, and made mention that we don't know the whole picture, from how Marrone was treated by the administration. Then said "Doug has to take care of his family". Pretty much says it all.

Then Go, who's info I believe, said that his salary went from 1.3M to somewhere just under $2M. I don't believe that's market for a coach who has proven himself, especially now as we enter a big boy conference.

Maybe SU is in a wait and see mode, and Marrone didn't want to be caught up in it. Go to the NFL now, get the payday while you can. I think we all know there was a part of him who wanted back in to that league.

So now the question is, does this make SU more likely to go the internal hire route, and keep the payroll at that level. Or do they think they need to change course after Marrone left, and up the budget for HC (to at least $2.5M) and all the assistants, specifically the coordinators.

Interesting times ahead...

Good points. I too would be wary of drawing too broad a conclusion about SU based on Marrone's actions. As someone else pointed out, maybe it wasn't so much the pay but that he thought he wasn't getting paid enough to deal with all the crap that he had to deal with. But some of that crap may not be so onerous to someone else. Maybe he just figured out that after 4 years, he can be an effective head coach at this level but that he can have the same effect in the NFL without worrying about recruiting, schmoozing with the donors, keeping track of the kids in the program, etc. AND get paid significantly more. So he took his chance. But we simply can't assume that the downsides of this job are the same for every coach. Other personalities may not think this is all too much for them to deal with for the money available. They might have their own problems but they likely won't all line up with what Marrone's problems were here.

I definitely agree with the general question underlying your post: can't this move be more about him and not as much about SU as a deeply flawed institution, which has been the insinuation of many?

 

[billsin01]

How many NFL coaches last 15 years ??? Not very many.

Good coaches last 15 years all the time, though not often with one team. Andy reid, belichick, jeff fisher, mike shanahan, holmgren are guys just off the top of my head. Other guys are easily headed toward at least 10-year careers as head guys. Wasn't lovie smith in chicago for almost 10 years? He'll get another gig. Guys like McCarthy and Kubiak are unlikely to be fired any time soon and if they do they'll get another gig. sean payton is in teh same boat. Dungy lasted a long time with both the colts and bucs.

And, as I also pointed out, it's not like DM was guanateed 10 or 15 more years on the hill.

 

[billsin01]

Not only that, but does anyone really think that Marrone will be the Buffalo coach in 2016? 2017?

An NFL job might represent a quick profit, but it has a shelf life. Sticking around at Syracuse, he could average between 7 and 8 wins and spend the next 20 years here. I don't doubt that Marrone could have made a lot more money in Syracuse over the long haul. Boeheim's smart enough to have recognized the same thing.

Yeah, but let's not pretend like he can't parlay being an NFL head coach into a really nice followup gig, whatever it is.

 

[javadoc]

I do not believe that coaches' pay would have been an issue going forward. We will be solidly with our peer group.