My idea to fix to the ACC divisions

[ImperialOrange]

The thing lost on alot of folks is that $$$ amounts today will not equal dollar amounts 10+ years from now. If you're basing conference earnings of cable TV sets you'd be better off in certain conferences vs others based on population growth of lack thereof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_growth_rate

Employment, median income, and cost of living will all factor in where folks will or won't be moving and not many folks will be moving into B1G country unless there is some massive changes to reverse current trends.

 

[Stern]

What I mean is that a team like North Carolina wouldn't join the B1G just to make 20 million dollars more than they will make in the ACC. .

Now that's REALLY funny! Downright hilarious!

Hey we can agree to disagree but if any school can make $20 mill more to jump conferences they will. And they all have!! Every school in that situation to this date the past few years has jumped. Not one has stayed where they are and been happy making less money!

 

[Chris02M]

most schools won't leave just for money there has to be something else there are a few (Maryland,rutgers,wvu) that have recently but despite all the gloom and doom about said acc team leaving for big ten it hasn't happened yet and isn't likely to at this point as shown by the fact the bigten is changing its divisions and there not going to go threw all that work just to adjust again at 16. As of now the acc 's money with espn backing is enough to keep any acc team from jumping no matter the money offered hypothetically

 

[Chris02M]

most schools won't leave just for money there has to be something else there are a few (Maryland,rutgers,wvu) that have recently but despite all the gloom and doom about said acc team leaving for big ten it hasn't happened yet and isn't likely to at this point as shown by the fact the bigten is changing its divisions and there not going to go threw all that work just to adjust again at 16. As of now the acc 's money with espn backing is enough to keep any acc team from jumping no matter the money offered hypothetically

 

[Alsacs]

most schools won't leave just for money there has to be something else there are a few (Maryland,rutgers,wvu) that have recently but despite all the gloom and doom about said acc team leaving for big ten it hasn't happened yet and isn't likely to at this point as shown by the fact the bigten is changing its divisions and there not going to go threw all that work just to adjust again at 16. As of now the acc 's money with espn backing is enough to keep any acc team from jumping no matter the money offered hypothetically

I am glad someone reads the situation similar to how I do. Teams will leave for more money, but if the money situation is close and the team can remain where they are more comfortable playing traditional riv@ls, teams won't leave their current conference unless they are under extreme circumstances(i.e Maryland.) North Carolina could make more money playing in the B1G if they wanted to leave the ACC, but as of now they have resisted the overtures.

 

[SUfanNC]

most schools won't leave just for money there has to be something else there are a few (Maryland,rutgers,wvu) that have recently but despite all the gloom and doom about said acc team leaving for big ten it hasn't happened yet and isn't likely to at this point as shown by the fact the bigten is changing its divisions and there not going to go threw all that work just to adjust again at 16. As of now the acc 's money with espn backing is enough to keep any acc team from jumping no matter the money offered hypothetically

I thought it was so nice I had to say it twice!

 

[Chip]

And you know they haven't been offered how?

Most offers are not made publicly known until the offered school has indicated they will accept privately.

Perhaps you truly believe that the SEC struggled for months in choosing #14 Mizzou while never even considering offering the position to VT?

And this is supposedly the smarter board?!?

Cheers,
Neil

It's all part of a calculated plan. First you have to lock up Maryland and Rutgers, and then UNC and UVA just fall into your laps. But you have to hold out a little, play hard to get. Drives them wild.

 

[omniorange]

I live in reality not on rumors. They haven't been offered.

You certainly do live somewhere, but it's nowhere in reality. Maybe a fractal dimension?

Cheers,
Neil

 

[All4SU]

The reality is that when you add three more teams to a conference , you have to do some shifting around. Some of those long time rivalry games will have to go by the wayside. It's unavoidable. I'm sure FSU, Clemson, UNC, UVA et al understand this.

 

[JoeMing]

They haven't been offered to go anywhere else officially. Once they are offered they will leave if the money is greater.

BIG will be stupid if they know they can take UNC and UVa now but don't pull the trigger, regardless the price. I for one believe that UNC will not move unless it is a package deal involving at least 4-5 ACC teams, at which point, situation becomes much more uncertain as SEC will most likely get into play.

 

[Lou_C]

The reality is that when you add three more teams to a conference , you have to do some shifting around. Some of those long time rivalry games will have to go by the wayside. It's unavoidable. I'm sure FSU, Clemson, UNC, UVA et al understand this.

The problem you have to consider is that at least currently there are very few high profile matchups to be made in ACC football. It's one thing to lose the Tennessee-Alabama game or Georgia-Auburn in the SEC, because while those mean something to fans of those schools, nationally, their replacement game is likely to be of at least as much interest if not more.

The ACC doesn't have that luxury and won't yet for awhile. They cannot afford to touch the FSU-Miami or FSU-Clemson games. The only way is if they were replaced with a VT game, but nobody is even thinking that way. It is a problem already that now with 14 teams you won't get Clemson-VT or FSU-VT or Clemson-Miami but once in a blue moon.

Now, UVA-UNC? I think that can be on the table in the scenario you describe, because like the SEC example, that's replaceable as far as the national interest (TV interest) is concerned. I am not saying FSU-Clemson is a superior as a tradition or anything like that, it's just dollars and sense right now. Again, given time it could change.

I know there are a lot of problems with it, but I keep going back to a North-South split and dropping the permanent cross-division game. And drop the home-and-home requirement for the cross-division. Playing two of seven accross the division would at least cycle you through in 3.5 years. Yes, it would still be forever until you got them in your house, but you would have that Miami-Clemson, FSU-VT game every 3-4 years.

I don't think it's a secret that a lot of the teams that would be in the North division could use some help to get on (or back on) the national scene, I don't see a big downside if they have a weaker division that helps them emerge. With a better than average team, a good cross-division draw, and a couple bounces, a team like Syracuse or Virginia could go 11-1 or 10-2. A season or two like that could be a huge game changer for programs like SU, Pitt or UVA.

And it's not like playing Louisville and VT and two from a pretty stacked South division is a total cakewalk. Just because a North-South is lopsided today doesn't mean it always has to be. The SEC East was mostly a joke when those divisions were set up, and they dominated for about a decade.

I think if you make the setup based on geography and historical rivals and maximizing matchups for TV, it ultimately will pay off more than trying to artificially shoehorn divisions together based on perceived program strength as of today.

North:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
VT
UVA
Wake

South:
UNC
NCSU
Duke
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

And I say that knowing that it makes FSU's road to an undefeated season more difficult.

 

[Chris02M]

it also pave way for Virginia tech and Virginia to leave for big ten and sec

 

[riskylogic]

Pod format, the Traditional version

Coastal: Duke-GT-UNC-UVa
Atlantic: Clemson-FSU-NCST-Wake
Old Wave: BC-Miami-VT
New Wave: Lville-Pitt-Syr

Use OOD games to make the following games that occur annually, regardless of current division alignment:
BC-Syr
Duke-Wake
FSU-Miami (OOD every other year)
Clemson-GT
UNC-NCSU
UVa-VT (OOD every other year)

The remaining games can be used to maximize the number of meetings between schools that will never be in the same division; i.e. Coastal and Atlantic, Old Wave and New Wave

 

[Scooch]

I'll argue that there's really nothing wrong with the ACC divisional alignment. There's no perfect way of doing it, so a zipper format is as good as any other.

The problem is only having 8 conference games. If we had a 9th then you'd see teams in the other division once every 3 years. Not great, but manageable.

Seeing 5 of the 6 teams in the other division once every SIX years just kinda sucks, there's no other way to frame it.

Several months ago someone here described the situation as "Syracuse being in the ACC Atlantic Conference with a scheduling agreement with the ACC Coastal Conference." And that's the reality.

 

[riskylogic]

Seeing 5 of the 6 teams in the other division once every SIX years just kinda sucks, there's no other way to frame it.

Yes, it does. To hell with fixed divisions.

1) Pods.

2) Switch a couple of teams between divisions every other year.

3) Seed teams every other year.

 

[riskylogic]

Since the word is that FSU wants to play GT more often, maybe geographic pods are the way to go:

South: Clemson, FSU, GT, Miami
Central 1: Duke, UNC, UVa
Central 2: NCST, VT, Wake
North: BC, LVille, Pitt, Syr

Central 1 and Central 2 would need fixed OOD games, and play the other two cross podders every other year
North and South might as well play two of the other teams every other year.

And voila, all 14 teams will play 3 opponents every year, and the other 1o members every other year.

 

[Resonator]

What about the Miami-Clemson flip-flop would Coastal schools be adamantly opposed on not having a guaranteed team from Florida on the schedule each year?

Yes, they would. That is one reason why the divisions were set as they were. To ensure every school in the league has a game in the state of Florida every other season, at a minimum. Plus, Clemson will not accept anything that'd take away their annual game with FSU.

 

[Resonator]

I like this as well and would call the division on the right Atlantic since it has 6 current Atlantic teams. I am okay with a Clemson-Georgia Tech flip-flop, but Clemson-Florida State would play a lot less. Florida State wants to play Clemson, Miami, and Georgia Tech and hard thing is finding a way all 3 and accomplishing this outside of switching Louisville and Georgia Tech and not alienating North Carolina and Virginia.

There is no simple solution.

 

[Resonator]

Now that's REALLY funny! Downright hilarious!

Hey we can agree to disagree but if any school can make $20 mill more to jump conferences they will. And they all have!! Every school in that situation to this date the past few years has jumped. Not one has stayed where they are and been happy making less money!

Then why are Carolina and UVA still in the ACC, if they could make $20M more annually in the Big 10?

Its not quite the no-brainer some may think.

 

[Resonator]

BIG will be stupid if they know they can take UNC and UVa now but don't pull the trigger, regardless the price. I for one believe that UNC will not move unless it is a package deal involving at least 4-5 ACC teams, at which point, situation becomes much more uncertain as SEC will most likely get into play.

The B10 did not pull the trigger, because neither UNC nor UVA were not available to them. Both are sticking to the conference where their traditional rivals are. And, thats not the B10.

 

[Alsacs]

Yes, they would. That is one reason why the divisions were set as they were. To ensure every school in the league has a game in the state of Florida every other season, at a minimum. Plus, Clemson will not accept anything that'd take away their annual game with FSU.

If Clemson moved to the Coastal they would still play Florida State as a permanent cross-over as Miami would play Virginia Tech from the Coastal and Clemson would play Florida State, but if Miami and Florida State were both in the same division there would still be 8 games a year they would have to play against Coastal teams each year and each team could still get a game in Florida every 2 years. I am just thinking outside the box and not trying to be radical.

 

[BlackKnight76]

They should move Miami to our division, only because my little brother is going there next year and it would make for a good trip every other year. Hopefully they take my personal situation under advisement.

 

[WoadBlue]

Miami and Florida State have always wanted to be in separate divisions so that they can meet in the ACC Championship Game. The main complaint that Florida State has is that they want Georgia Tech in their division in exchange for either Syracuse or Boston College.

The irony is that in a decade Miami and Florida State have never played in the Championship Game. In fact, Miami has never made it. They would have last year and would have played FSU, but they disqualified themselves while waiting on NCAA sanctions.

Also, all members want to play a FL school annually to help their FL recruiting.

Making any changes in divisions will prove difficult. Let me provide one specific example. GT might love to play FSU annually, and I am certain FSU wants to play GT annually, but it is unlikely that GT would agree to leave the division with UNC, Dook, and UVA. GT has played Dook about 75 times, far more than anybody else in the ACC. And GT wants every possible pairing with UNC and/or UVA.

Well then, we could get GT with FSU and keep GT with Dook, UNC, and UVA by swapping FSU and Miami. But I bet Miami would pitch a fit. Miami wants to play VT annually and would choose UNC over NCSU every second of every day of the year. Miami also would not care to lose UVA, and would much prefer to have GT than Clemson.

 

[Stern]

Then why are Carolina and UVA still in the ACC, if they could make $20M more annually in the Big 10?

Its not quite the no-brainer some may think.

Because they weren't offered a spot in the Big10

 

[Btstimpy]

North:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville
VT
UVA
Wake

South:
UNC
NCSU
Duke
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

And I say that knowing that it makes FSU's road to an undefeated season more difficult.

If you're going to do this, I'd suggest:

North:
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
Louisville,
VT
Miami
Wake

South:
UVA
UNC
NC State
Clemson
GT
FSU
Duke

I think most would be happy with this except the Hokies because they would think this lineup would put them back into the Big East instead of the ACC. And Wake would think they were being shunned by their fellow traditional ACC rivals. Changing these divisions is not going to be easy to do and make everyone happy.