My perspective after 3 Games

[jordoo]

Finally watched the Colgate game.

This is the game that will come to mind when I think of Red's program starting and JB's ending. I don't feel that we can extrapolate any great revelations about this years team from the game nor put too much importance on the huge swing of negative to positive that occurred. The game can be a good comeback win against a probable NCAAT team while also being a very disappointing first 25min effort against a team we should be vastly superior too. I think the difference is that we would not have come back and won this game the last two seasons. We did come back and win this game and it was done in a much different format than how JB coached.

When you analyze all of the shortcomings/negatives of the players and the team thus far its actually quite impressive that Red was able to push the right buttons to give the team a chance to come back. Its also encouraging that the team did not fold. That said this is very much a work in progress. Red has a bunch of parts that very rarely work together as singular unit during games. I think this is the big issue with the defensive lapses and the inconsistent offense. Its less about what Red's system is or isn't and more that we have a group of independent operators rather than a team. That is Red's challenge IMO. He has some really good players, some that have a valuable skill but are not multidimensional, some that show promise but lack experience, at least one that is sidelined do to injury and all of them have IMO at least one obvious shortcoming. I would also say that I don't think any of them are 100% bought into Red's system yet. It takes time and I hope that this comeback win is a big step toward buying in and playing as a team.

 

[Nicknack]

Yeah, good points. I think so far, my main takeaway is that we have a lot of talent that is fun to watch. A team that is finally very athletic. However, we're not that great of a team yet. Even without all of the injuries and suspension it would be a tall order to get these guys playing like a team this early. I can't remember the last time we had so many parts that are incomplete. We have so many guys who are injured, coming off an injury, or rusty due to an injury earlier. Top that all off with several of them never playing with each other before. Even when they all get healthy, I'm concerned and fear that our outside shooting could be a problem for us.

I feel very good about Red so far. I like his approach in the early stages and is what we needed after Boeheim, who built this program. I have a ton of respect for Jim, but we needed a different approach and personality to jolt our program in a different direction. I think Red is that guy - at least I'm hoping!

 

[atlanticuse]

I don't care who we/you/anyone is - a 24-point comeback is pretty incredible.
Colgate had a 90% chance - or greater - from 3:14 in the first to nearly 5:30 in the second. Then it popped back above 90% before we went on our final defensive stand and run.
That will give any team hope of a comeback, and even though other teams might have more talent, Colgate is a veteran team with a lot of success the past 2-3 years.

 

[upperdeck]

we played the same game the last 3 yrs vs Colgate.. The big difference is the other 2 yrs they never quit making 3s.

 

[DCUNITED13]

Its less about what Red's system is or isn't and more that we have a group of independent operators rather than a team. That is Red's challenge IMO.

Like this point. This is where Coach Autry will earn his stripes. He has to have the stars buy into the system he has set up. When that happens. YES. (You all know the quote).

Go CUSE.

 

[swish7]

Good post.
Taking your insights about individuals and shortcomings a bit further, I might pay attention to Red's success or lack thereof in the following areas:

1. McLeod - ability to never lose a rebound against anyone 6"s shorter than you
2. JJ - ability to play well with Judah
3. Judah - ability to complement JJ, & to pick spots that actually help the team. 1 on 3 drives don't help anyone.
4. Bell - ability to defend
5. Benny - ability to let the game come to him & to do the dirty work of defending, rebounding and scrapping, as opposed to being a 1-dimensional mediocre spot up shooter. Let Bell and Taylor occupy the perimeter.
6. Taylor - be more selfish on offense
7. McLeod - ability to provide a bare minimum offensive presence
8. Bell - ability to rebound
9. Cuffe - more minutes. whatever it is Red wants you to do, do just that and do it well

I know I am missing some individual defensive shortcomings from some of these same players. Need to challenge the opponent much better than we are. Too many guys dribbling at will and shooting uncontested 3s.

 

[CousCuse]

we played the same game the last 3 yrs vs Colgate.. The big difference is the other 2 yrs they never quit making 3s.

The last 2 years Colgate had Tucker Richardson, one of the players they ever had.

 

[Cuseregular]

Re not hitting threes in the second half, Well, there was a reason for that, the nonstop, frenetic press playing suffocating defense being that reason. Not enough athletes in the past to do For such a sustained period this year, they obviously do. This athleticism in and of itself will keep you in most games, if the outside shooting ever comes around consistently, then watch out

 

[pearl31]

Finally watched the Colgate game.

This is the game that will come to mind when I think of Red's program starting and JB's ending. I don't feel that we can extrapolate any great revelations about this years team from the game nor put too much importance on the huge swing of negative to positive that occurred. The game can be a good comeback win against a probable NCAAT team while also being a very disappointing first 25min effort against a team we should be vastly superior too. I think the difference is that we would not have come back and won this game the last two seasons. We did come back and win this game and it was done in a much different format than how JB coached.

When you analyze all of the shortcomings/negatives of the players and the team thus far its actually quite impressive that Red was able to push the right buttons to give the team a chance to come back. Its also encouraging that the team did not fold. That said this is very much a work in progress. Red has a bunch of parts that very rarely work together as singular unit during games. I think this is the big issue with the defensive lapses and the inconsistent offense. Its less about what Red's system is or isn't and more that we have a group of independent operators rather than a team. That is Red's challenge IMO. He has some really good players, some that have a valuable skill but are not multidimensional, some that show promise but lack experience, at least one that is sidelined do to injury and all of them have IMO at least one obvious shortcoming. I would also say that I don't think any of them are 100% bought into Red's system yet. It takes time and I hope that this comeback win is a big step toward buying in and playing as a team.

good stuff jordoo, good stuff

 

[DCUNITED13]

Re not hitting threes in the second half, Well, there was a reason for that, the nonstop, frenetic press playing suffocating defense being that reason. Not enough athletes in the past to do For such a sustained period this year, they obviously do. This athleticism in and of itself will keep you in most games, if the outside shooting ever comes around consistently, then watch out

Agreed, Coach Red changed the tone of the game by using the press to make Colgate less comfortable. Noticed that unlike JB, we did not employ a shot-blocker at the end but had the center (Brown) play higher up in the court and limit spacing for Colgate. Out guys in the frontcourt could take more risks rushing the ballhandler as there was less space for outlet passing. When Colgate crossed midcourt, they had 15 seconds to set up their offence instead of 20/25. Big impact as a result.

Go CUSE

 

[djcon57]

we played the same game the last 3 yrs vs Colgate.. The big difference is the other 2 yrs they never quit making 3s.

Just not true.

Pace was faster 76.8 vs 71.2/74.4

Defensive Rating wasn't even close 97.4 vs 112.7/135.1(!!!!).

If it was just not making 3s, that doesn't result in a near 40 pt diff in Defensive Rating

 

[Nicknack]

I don't care who we/you/anyone is - a 24-point comeback is pretty incredible.
Colgate had a 90% chance - or greater - from 3:14 in the first to nearly 5:30 in the second. Then it popped back above 90% before we went on our final defensive stand and run.
That will give any team hope of a comeback, and even though other teams might have more talent, Colgate is a veteran team with a lot of success the past 2-3 years.

True dat. I haven't admitted it until now, but I actually turned the game off at the 13 minute mark when we were down 16. I said to myself at the time, there is only so much syracuse football/basketball abuse a man can take. Then I logged online later that evening to read about what people had to say about the loss to only find out we made one the best comebacks in our program history. The shame I feel.

 

[kcsu]

we played the same game the last 3 yrs vs Colgate.. The big difference is the other 2 yrs they never quit making 3s.

and why do you think that is

 

[kcsu]

The key to this year's team is the pace of play. We need to push the ball and if it takes the press to establish that pace than Red needs to employ it not as a comeback tool but as part of his scheme.

 

[MikeSU02]

Just not true.

Pace was faster 76.8 vs 71.2/74.4

Defensive Rating wasn't even close 97.4 vs 112.7/135.1(!!!!).

If it was just not making 3s, that doesn't result in a near 40 pt diff in Defensive Rating

Good lord almighty that DRTG change.

 

[kingtidge]

True dat. I haven't admitted it until now, but I actually turned the game off at the 13 minute mark when we were down 16. I said to myself at the time, there is only so much syracuse football/basketball abuse a man can take. Then I logged online later that evening to read about what people had to say about the loss to only find out we made one the best comebacks in our program history. The shame I feel.

I was tempted to do the same but gave Red the benefit of the doubt...

 

[kuethstheman]

Yeah, good points. I think so far, my main takeaway is that we have a lot of talent that is fun to watch.

Well, fun for 16 minutes out of three games!

I was expecting a fun-to-watch team, even if they didn't get to the tournament. I still think they can be, but they've been as frustrating as the teams of the last few years.

 

[LAOrange]

True dat. I haven't admitted it until now, but I actually turned the game off at the 13 minute mark when we were down 16. I said to myself at the time, there is only so much syracuse football/basketball abuse a man can take. Then I logged online later that evening to read about what people had to say about the loss to only find out we made one the best comebacks in our program history. The shame I feel.

It's completely understandable. Fan does not need to equal masochist. I grok you.

 

[Toga]

Not always but frequently- JB would coach up his teams which were not in synch early. Hope we see that trajectory.

 

[Nicknack]

It's completely understandable. Fan does not need to equal masochist. I grok you.

It's funny because I used to take pride (for some dumb reason) that as a diehard cuse fan that I never turned the game off early. I don't do that anymore. I still watch every game, but the last 20 years (or whatever it's been) of SU football and the last several years of BB, I can only take so much for my mental health. I think cuse sports has caused me to drink a lot more - at least that's what I blame it on.

The first time I turned off the tv during a game was an epic 30+ point blowout to kentucky in the mid 90's. It was beyond embarrassing. We were highly ranked at the time.

 

[hoopsupstate]

The key to this year's team is the pace of play. We need to push the ball and if it takes the press to establish that pace than Red needs to employ it not as a comeback tool but as part of his scheme.

Rebounding would help.

 

[upperdeck]

and why do you think that is

the missed wide open 3s

 

[upperdeck]

Just not true.

Pace was faster 76.8 vs 71.2/74.4

Defensive Rating wasn't even close 97.4 vs 112.7/135.1(!!!!).

If it was just not making 3s, that doesn't result in a near 40 pt diff in Defensive Rating

So that pace was faster and 4 more shots were taken? basically the same pts were scored.

Colgate shot better this yr and 11 more Fts were in the game..

last yr colgate shot almost 40 and made almost 20.

This yr 9-24..

How much did we press last yr?

 

[Niastri]

we played the same game the last 3 yrs vs Colgate.. The big difference is the other 2 yrs they never quit making 3s.

The individual and team defense, was entirely the difference in Colgate's shooting in the second half. The defense improved both in terms of effort and performance.

Colgate didn't just start missing wide open shots. We took them out of their offense with the press, and we took away those open shots with better defense.

The improvement was directly attributable to Red's decision to shorten the rotation and to use the press most of the second half. Very good coaching decisions that helped the players win the game.

 

[SoBristol]

From my eyes, the issues aren’t buy-in or individual operators (except Judah), but personnel. We have McLeod and Brown at C - their respective abilities are contrasting and obvious. The 4 forwards are a mixed lot - Bell is a scorer, not a rebounder; Benny wants to be a jump shooter; Taylor is a tad short to defend inside although willing; Copeland - lots of good but, well you know. It will be hard for Red to find a style of play for our bunch, other than a press & transition game. Also will be hard to defend good forwards and inside players.

We will soon see.