My Take

Ozone!

Graphics Wizard
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
957
Like
1,460
Great assessment! The D has much better energy and they fight hard. The O seems confused and living in the land of confusion!
Someone needs to clean up the mess and make game plans that are effective; that is a coaching issue, IMO!
 

GoSU96

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
14,969
Like
20,981
Agree with Go here. Tony White has been really impressive to me this year. He started with what was at best a decent crew of players with decent experience, has had to deal with massive attrition due to injuries and opt outs and still, he finds a way to get a decent defense out there week after week. Even with no one on th staff and none of the players versed in his 3-3-5 defense. Even with the losses of Trill, Andre and maybe McKinley, Josh and Kingsley, there is a lot of reason for optimism on the defensive side. Get a couple of serviceable DL transfers and I think we will be one of the top 3 or 4 defenses in the ACC next year. At least middle of the pack.

It would be great to see Sterlin find similar ways to do more with less on the offensive side. That clearly is not happening and it is a concern. But we are on what, our 4th or 5th string QB and RB. He doesn’t have a lot to work with at WR, his senior TE is a beat up mess and the OL, never a strength, got destroyed by injuries. When you have a 5’11 FB starting at OG, you have serious issues.

We have seen some development. Sean Tucker has emerged as a real player as a true frosh at RB. Cooper Lutz looks promising there too. Anthony Queeley has emerged as a solid option at WR and Nykeim Johnson has recovered from a lost year last season to again be a solid slot WR. I think Bergeron has been doing a good job at RT, then LT.

I am disturbed Tommy didn’t show much improvement from last year but given the OL and WRs he had to work with, it would be hard for Trevor Lawrence to shine. The one player I think has largely been wasted is Luke Benson, who I think should be targeted at least 5 times a game. He has largely been forgotten.

The play calling is a concern. The game plans are a concern. I want to see signs of adapting, signs that Sterlin is tweaking things to adjust to the personnel he has. Not seeing much on this front.

Iit is important to remember that Sterlin did not have a spring to work with his unit and see what he had to work with. So again, I give Sterlin a pass for this year. I think that is fair. He now knows what he has and he needs to figure out what is needed to have a successful offense next season.

There should be an unprecedented number of quality transfers, all eligible immediately, available to join the team next season. Sterlin and Tony and the rest of the staff are going to need to get some immediate help from the transfer portal. How they do here will play a key role in how their units do next season.
Concur
 

sutomcat

Former Iggy Winner. I used to be somebody special
Staff member
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
17,001
Like
66,001
I assume you meant Hanna is undersized, not Carter? Carter is surprisingly big considering his age. Hanna is the one who must get stronger. I think he can be solid but he gets hurt often just because he simply isn’t big enough just yet.
Carter has good height but is not as strong as a BCS safety needs to be. He struggles sometimes because he doesn’t have the power and bulk needed for his position. I think he is going to get much better as he develops physically. Not sure if Hanna is going to be able to get to 200 pounds. If he does, he will also be a very good safety.
 

gocraz4dasu

All Conference
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Messages
2,305
Like
2,128
I'd like to see our offense use some pre-snap motion. We are so stagnant and don't really try anything to help us get things going. We don't even run many screens to the RB, who is by far and away our best player on O this year. Did we have a single run on the outside this game? I can't seem to remember any. I know we are running a watered down offense (of an already watered down offensive scheme) but we truly have no identity on offense. The offensive line is putrid and a lot of that is communication, which you'd like to see having improved by week 11. I'd like to see a wholesale change in the offensive scheme next year but I know that will not happen.

The only frustrating thing for me with the defense last night was the 3rd and long conversions Louisville kept getting. The 4th down and 5 conversion where we just had nobody over the middle of the field around the first down marker was perplexing. We have talent on the defense though and there is hope for the future here.
 

OrangeTarheel

As Many Wins as I Can Count on my Foam Finger
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
3,097
Like
3,518
We have never seen this level of injury and opt out before. I accept that. Our coach makes this disagreeable situation no better with his quietude about the team’s struggles. I feel like he’s playing a game that he thinks he’s involved in ... but he’s not. Other teams are going to beat us like a drum no matter what he says.

The oline struggles are bizarre to me given Dinos clear respect for a strong running game. I thought he had a Marrone like love of oline play but I don’t see it. I’m not expert enough to pick up on the nuance that others here can with blocking schemes and techniques so I can’t diagnose. But I know we need help, fast, and I doubt the transfer portal can get us a ready made lineman. Those would be already starting elsewhere by and large.

I hate we just lost another year of potential improvement for the program. All we have is hope that we’ll see a better product in 2021. It’s all just hope
 

Crusty

Living Legend
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
12,728
Like
16,001
Agree with Go here. Tony White has been really impressive to me this year. He started with what was at best a decent crew of players with decent experience, has had to deal with massive attrition due to injuries and opt outs and still, he finds a way to get a decent defense out there week after week. Even with no one on th staff and none of the players versed in his 3-3-5 defense. Even with the losses of Trill, Andre and maybe McKinley, Josh and Kingsley, there is a lot of reason for optimism on the defensive side. Get a couple of serviceable DL transfers and I think we will be one of the top 3 or 4 defenses in the ACC next year. At least middle of the pack.

It would be great to see Sterlin find similar ways to do more with less on the offensive side. That clearly is not happening and it is a concern. But we are on what, our 4th or 5th string QB and RB. He doesn’t have a lot to work with at WR, his senior TE is a beat up mess and the OL, never a strength, got destroyed by injuries. When you have a 5’11 FB starting at OG, you have serious issues.

We have seen some development. Sean Tucker has emerged as a real player as a true frosh at RB. Cooper Lutz looks promising there too. Anthony Queeley has emerged as a solid option at WR and Nykeim Johnson has recovered from a lost year last season to again be a solid slot WR. I think Bergeron has been doing a good job at RT, then LT.

I am disturbed Tommy didn’t show much improvement from last year but given the OL and WRs he had to work with, it would be hard for Trevor Lawrence to shine. The one player I think has largely been wasted is Luke Benson, who I think should be targeted at least 5 times a game. He has largely been forgotten.

The play calling is a concern. The game plans are a concern. I want to see signs of adapting, signs that Sterlin is tweaking things to adjust to the personnel he has. Not seeing much on this front.

Iit is important to remember that Sterlin did not have a spring to work with his unit and see what he had to work with. So again, I give Sterlin a pass for this year. I think that is fair. He now knows what he has and he needs to figure out what is needed to have a successful offense next season.

There should be an unprecedented number of quality transfers, all eligible immediately, available to join the team next season. Sterlin and Tony and the rest of the staff are going to need to get some immediate help from the transfer portal. How they do here will play a key role in how their units do next season.
Seems to me the defense looks like a question of glass half full or half empty. But we are VERY young and learning a new seldom used defense.
We are dead last in rushing defense (14th vs conference); 8th in passing defense (9th vs conference); 10th in scoring defense (7th vs conference); 12th in total defense (11th vs conference).
While this is in no way a winning set of stats, the run D makes everything look worse. If we were just average in rushing D we would probably be in the upper half in total D.
It is amazing that (playing without our best DBs) we are 8th vs ACC teams in passing D when we are 12th in sacks and last in TOP. Our d has to play longer than our peers. With young players that is simply more time for tired mental errors.

I would remiss not to note that we 2nd in interceptions T2nd in passes broken up and 3rd in passes defended.

I think this is actually a remarkable result under the circumstances. Time will tell if the 3-3-5 will work in the ACC. So far, so good in pass D, which it is designed to do. We will probbably need linemen not currently on the roster to handle the run. If we can get them the scheme may work. If it does White is a keeper and props to Dino.

I have no positive things to say about the offense. Wish I did.

PS We are probably going to be demolished vs ND but that is not what matters.
 
Last edited:

tipphill

All Conference
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
2,905
Like
1,922
I agree with this. Even though I was all in on babers, if he can't recruit, we need someone else. But I just don't know if this year is how you judge it. Covid is weird, they swung and missed on regarded recruits, everyone's hurt. Perfect storm of awful

I get why people are done with this. I still don't think it's scheme but what's the difference, scheme or recruiting either way it's on the coach

If they were any good, I probably wouldn't think this goofy season is a waste but it really is. Best to put it out of our minds
babers has had others years to recruit--we can blame covid for many things but not babers as failure in recruiting.
 

HRE Otto IV

All Conference
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
2,422
Like
3,368
Seems to me the defense looks like a question of glass half full or half empty. But we are VERY young and learning a new seldom used defense.
We are dead last in rushing defense (14th vs conference); 8th in passing defense (9th vs conference); 10th in scoring defense (7th vs conference); 12th in total defense (11th vs conference).
While this is in no way a winning set of stats, the run D makes everything look worse. If we were just average in rushing D we would probably be in the upper half in total D.
It is amazing that (playing without our best DBs) we are 8th vs ACC teams in passing D when we are 12th in sacks and last in TOP. Our d has to play longer than our peers. With young players that is simply more time for tired mental errors.

I would remiss not to note that we 2nd in interceptions T2nd in passes broken up and 3rd in passes defended.

I think this is actually a remarkable result under the circumstances. Time will tell if the 3-3-5 will work in the ACC. So far, so good in pass D, which it is designed to do. We will probbably need linemen not currently on the roster to handle the run. If we can get the the scheme may work. If it does White is a keeper and props to Dino.

I have no positive things to say about the offense. Wish I did.

PS We are probably going to be demolished vs ND but that is not what matters.

I don't think our run D is as bad as it looks. Our one OOC game was against a Top 25 team that has a really good run O. Which isn't fair to compare against when other teams are playing cake a cake OOC game. If we limit the stats to ACC games only, 7th in rush D when using YPC.
The reason we have so many yards per game is the fact that we face nearly 5 more carries on average than the 14th highest team in the ACC. Why do we face so many carries? Or O stinks and is never on the field for one. So we are worn out by the 4th Q every game. Especially since we have zero depth on the DL. Secondly the games have been out of reach so our opponents are going to run clock and the ball.

The Duke game was bad but I think they took our coaches by surprise. Duke was a bad running team and we didn't expect that. The Liberty game was really bad and the coaches should be criticized for not having a better plan. GA Tech wasn't great but I think given the way the game was played out we were content giving up rushing yards to prevent them from getting back into the game via the pass.

Since the Liberty game we are giving up 3.70 yards per carry on D.
 

qdawgg

Night Biking Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
9,000
Like
9,871
Great post. I see a lot of good things with the defense. They have gotten better. They have improved on a lot of the things that I saw early in the season. I am completely frustrated with the offense. Something is really off, Its not the scheme. I see teams running the same stuff with high success. Its not just recruiting, Ive seen less talented kids come in and perform better than their recruiting ratings. The biggest issue is coaching and development. There's a bad culture within the offense. Even with the injuries/opt outs, there is no reason for us to be this inept. The game planning was very disapointing coming off a bye. I didnt see packages added that could help and protect a young QB. No roll outs? (half field reads) No quick fades ? (have to influence the safeties/ corner to loosen up), this makes it easier to throw quick game and run the ball more efffectively. No play action boot passes? This allows him to make half field reads and make easy throws without a hand in his face. We need some outside minds to come in to develop players and revamp the offense. It starts with the offensive line.

I feel like this isn’t a new issue. For years we fail to make adjustments based on injuries, depth (or lack of) or who our opponent is. Even with Tommy in there getting killed we did very little to game plan around a porous o-line. In the past we’ve stuck to a game plan even when it’s clearly not working. We don’t adjust for games coming up unless it’s Clemson and we don’t adjust mid-game.

This is some of the most meat head coaching I’ve seen since I’ve been a fan.
 

tipphill

All Conference
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
2,905
Like
1,922
i am not blaming the players for anything. i do feel babers has been stubborn, poor recruiting, lack of team discipline, poor leadership. i truly believe he lives in a fanciful world of the " up tempo" offense that has hurt us in many ways. now he has dug a hole by hanging onto that concept that has been damaging. he is in over his head. your analysis is excellent tom. i will take all the mistakes by the young kids with a grain of salt---its a good thing they get the experience. what saddens me is babers demeanor the past few years. he remains intractable, cannot recruit, loyaty to the point that is destructive to the team, with regards to certain coaches, and certain players. ----as many have said before it all starts with the oline and dline ----he has failed to build a foundation at least on the offense.
 

money3189

All American
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,616
Like
15,870
Seems to me the defense looks like a question of glass half full or half empty. But we are VERY young and learning a new seldom used defense.
We are dead last in rushing defense (14th vs conference); 8th in passing defense (9th vs conference); 10th in scoring defense (7th vs conference); 12th in total defense (11th vs conference).
While this is in no way a winning set of stats, the run D makes everything look worse. If we were just average in rushing D we would probably be in the upper half in total D.
It is amazing that (playing without our best DBs) we are 8th vs ACC teams in passing D when we are 12th in sacks and last in TOP. Our d has to play longer than our peers. With young players that is simply more time for tired mental errors.

I would remiss not to note that we 2nd in interceptions T2nd in passes broken up and 3rd in passes defended.

I think this is actually a remarkable result under the circumstances. Time will tell if the 3-3-5 will work in the ACC. So far, so good in pass D, which it is designed to do. We will probbably need linemen not currently on the roster to handle the run. If we can get them the scheme may work. If it does White is a keeper and props to Dino.

I have no positive things to say about the offense. Wish I did.

PS We are probably going to be demolished vs ND but that is not what matters.
Im not sure if there's a defense in the country that are playing as many true freshmans as we are and is on the field longer than we are.
 

Millhouse

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
26,061
Like
27,487
babers has had others years to recruit--we can blame covid for many things but not babers as failure in recruiting.
i wasn't letting him off the hook for that. it's the biggest ding against him and if that means we move on when it's financially possible, so be it. i still think the scheme is fine and i worry that meatheads will think that some other offense would've been successful with this weak bunch
 

RICuse44

Starter
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
1,277
Like
1,661
i wasn't letting him off the hook for that. it's the biggest ding against him and if that means we move on when it's financially possible, so be it. i still think the scheme is fine and i worry that meatheads will think that some other offense would've been successful with this weak bunch

I still like the overall concept of the spread rpo that babers runs. But the current offense has never really attacked and is built off of the ability to run this halfback dive and gash the defense for 4-5 yards a carry. It’s like his entire gameplan is based on this come hell or high water and he’s not going to change which has been a fatal flaw most years.

The only thing that gives me some hope is what he’s done w the defense. He moved away from a longtime assistant for a completely different defensive philosophy- much more attack than sit back. Love the defense but he needs to find his tony white for the offense and run the rpo spread to attack. Right now we’ve taken the rpo spread into meathead football.
 

Crusty

Living Legend
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
12,728
Like
16,001
I don't think our run D is as bad as it looks. Our one OOC game was against a Top 25 team that has a really good run O. Which isn't fair to compare against when other teams are playing cake a cake OOC game. If we limit the stats to ACC games only, 7th in rush D when using YPC.
The reason we have so many yards per game is the fact that we face nearly 5 more carries on average than the 14th highest team in the ACC. Why do we face so many carries? Or O stinks and is never on the field for one. So we are worn out by the 4th Q every game. Especially since we have zero depth on the DL. Secondly the games have been out of reach so our opponents are going to run clock and the ball.

The Duke game was bad but I think they took our coaches by surprise. Duke was a bad running team and we didn't expect that. The Liberty game was really bad and the coaches should be criticized for not having a better plan. GA Tech wasn't great but I think given the way the game was played out we were content giving up rushing yards to prevent them from getting back into the game via the pass.

Since the Liberty game we are giving up 3.70 yards per carry on D.

The ACC is not playing cupcakes this year. Only 1 OOC game and Virginia Tech and NC State played Liberty as well.

We are 14th in conference in run d giving up 1,584 yards (last) 198 ypg (last) and 4.26 ypc (7th). Yes 46.5 attempts per game 5 more than the next most and nearly and nearly 100 more attempts than the midpoint.

More attempts doesn't necessarily change the averages. Lots of ways to get the same average - could just be fewer attempts and fewer yards in the same proportion.

We are actually worse in the Q3 (4.6) and far better in Q4 (2.57 ypc). This suggests to me that subs are playing against us in the last quarter.

ACC coaches know that our weak spot is run D. They run 58:42 run/pass. GT, Duke, Wake and BC ran 60%+ and Liberty ran 70%.
 

cusefan88

All Conference
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
2,954
Like
4,754
I really do think a proper winter conditioning/spring practice/summer work combined with a friendly non-conf schedule should help a ton next season.

Improving the OL and DL is priority 1. Priority 2 is creating a legit QB competition.
 

ElwoodJBlues

Scout Team
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
449
Like
530
I think it’s extremely difficult to take defensive ranks/numbers and say that the defense isn’t good. The defense has been run ragged by a terrible offense. The run defense has struggled all year, but the eye test shows you that the pass defense is very good, despite a lot of youth up the middle. Iffy and GWill are excellent and teams have only found success throwing the ball by disguising routes/plays to pick on our true freshmen safeties.

I’m very encouraged by the 3-3-5 and I think a lot of defensive recruits will want to play that style.

Offensively, I actually don’t fault Gilbert the past few weeks. Pre-snap motion is great and all, but it adds a layer of complexity and if your QB is too inexperienced to read the defense correctly based off the motion, why add that complexity? I hope during the spring when Tommy is healthy, Gilbert and Tommy help the OL identify the right way to pick up blitzes, pressure based on routes and field position.

We saw it early in the season a couple of times when Tommy moved laterally toward where his receivers’ routes where taking them, an OL blocked a rusher right into him.
 

OttoinGrotto

Run clowns in Archbold
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
40,806
Like
94,699
Iffy and GWill are excellent and teams have only found success throwing the ball by disguising routes/plays to pick on our true freshmen safeties.
That's a really good point and observation.
 

All4SU

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
10,661
Like
12,564
Tex put up huge numbers his senior year throwing to that 5* tight end (went to LSU?). If he has to play, let’s see if he can establish some connection with Benson. I don’t know who plays Qb from here on out, but whoever it is, I want to see if they can move and throw the ball.
 

Crusty

Living Legend
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
12,728
Like
16,001
Im not sure if there's a defense in the country that are playing as many true freshmans as we are and is on the field longer than we are.
You are absolutely correct. We are 127th in TOP. That alone is enough to think our young D is very promising. Can't get the data on freshamen withour going trhough the 2-deep. If I find the time I might do that for the ACC.
 

ElwoodJBlues

Scout Team
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
449
Like
530
Tex put up huge numbers his senior year throwing to that 5* tight end (went to LSU?). If he has to play, let’s see if he can establish some connection with Benson. I don’t know who plays Qb from here on out, but whoever it is, I want to see if they can move and throw the ball.
I think one reason why we haven’t seen Tex is that he physically may not be prepared to play yet. Morgan is a bit more built physically and the staff probably thinks his body could handle D-I sits more than Tex.
 

PhatOrange

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
22,674
Like
29,081
I agree. It’s a common theme with this season. Richards gets charged with DUI and gets one game. Taj is unable to control his emotions over and over, flips the bird and gets one game. Doesn’t seem to be accountability for anyone. This idea of a “free” season is strange. I haven’t spent a penny on the program this year so maybe it really is a free season.

the irony here is that people bemoan wanting a loose with the rules SEC coach and then when they have it in Babers they bemoan wanting a West Point coach who is all discipline.

I’m more put off by Harris’ actions than I am with the handling of a Richards. Kids make mistakes,you hope they learn from them. Harris hasn’t learned anything and from my nosebleed seats if nothing works to change his antics then it’s time to bench him or cut bait. There’s no way that’s good in the locker room.
 

money3189

All American
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,616
Like
15,870
You are absolutely correct. We are 127th in TOP. That alone is enough to think our young D is very promising. Can't get the data on freshamen withour going trhough the 2-deep. If I find the time I might do that for the ACC.
Good research. We obviously arent great. I just know we would be a little better if our offense was at least average. I see enough things to feel good about the future of the defense. Despite teams gashing us in the run game I see good scheming by Tony. Guys are put in the right position but can't physically make the plays consistently. Louisville was a great game plan. I like what we were doing against their outside zone plays. Last year their backs werent even getting touched until they got to second level of our defense.
 

HRE Otto IV

All Conference
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
2,422
Like
3,368
The ACC is not playing cupcakes this year. Only 1 OOC game and Virginia Tech and NC State played Liberty as well.

We are 14th in conference in run d giving up 1,584 yards (last) 198 ypg (last) and 4.26 ypc (7th). Yes 46.5 attempts per game 5 more than the next most and nearly and nearly 100 more attempts than the midpoint.

More attempts doesn't necessarily change the averages. Lots of ways to get the same average - could just be fewer attempts and fewer yards in the same proportion.

We are actually worse in the Q3 (4.6) and far better in Q4 (2.57 ypc). This suggests to me that subs are playing against us in the last quarter.

ACC coaches know that our weak spot is run D. They run 58:42 run/pass. GT, Duke, Wake and BC ran 60%+ and Liberty ran 70%.

You think comparing a team that plays WKU and Liberty is apples to apples? YPC is a better indicator of the run D than total yards. Even including Liberty we are 10th in the ACC in YPC. Our run D and game plan against a good running team in Lousiville was great. If we had any O and didn't turn the ball over on STs, we would have been winning at halftime.

Our run D was fine the first two games and the last four games. The three game stretch in the middle was rough. Duke and Liberty were totally unacceptable. GA Tech I can excuse given the fact that we had a lead and were conceding the run. For a team playing a ton of youth in the back 7 and a totally new system, our run D hasn't been all that bad overall.

There are plenty of teams in the ACC playing 3 man fronts. There is no need to worry about the system.
 

Crusty

Living Legend
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
12,728
Like
16,001
You think comparing a team that plays WKU and Liberty is apples to apples? YPC is a better indicator of the run D than total yards. Even including Liberty we are 10th in the ACC in YPC. Our run D and game plan against a good running team in Lousiville was great. If we had any O and didn't turn the ball over on STs, we would have been winning at halftime.

Our run D was fine the first two games and the last four games. The three game stretch in the middle was rough. Duke and Liberty were totally unacceptable. GA Tech I can excuse given the fact that we had a lead and were conceding the run. For a team playing a ton of youth in the back 7 and a totally new system, our run D hasn't been all that bad overall.

There are plenty of teams in the ACC playing 3 man fronts. There is no need to worry about the system.

I made the youth point. And 3-4 is not 3-3-5, which almost nobody runs.
 

Online statistics

Members online
207
Guests online
893
Total visitors
1,100

Top Bottom