My third year theory

[Alsacs]

Its ok. we discussed you wont change and I wont change. You also said you would give a new coach 2.5 years and then be on them also. So patience is the wrong word. Either way Ill support the team and players. I was here since before greg and Im here now.

I never said 2.5 yrs for the next coach. I would hold them to same standard but the next coach is going to way more qualified than SS to be a P5 HC.
I didn't like the hire the day it was announced but I supported the guy. SS resume was horrible not many if any P5 team other than SU would have given the keys to SS. He doesn't get the patience a person taking over a bottom team gets as SU was mediocre.
Our assistant coaching staff has gone backwards from DM as SS has hired all his friend for the most part. I like Acosta and Daoust the rest all MAC/Western Michigan people. Millhouse has already shown those WMU teams were nothing special
Your opinion is your right as mine is. However keeping SS will break the camel's back for me and I will support the team by watching and rooting for them but I will not give my money until the product is better.

 

[SWC75]

I provided 20+ examples of teams in the top 35 now who were showing substantially more progress in year 3 than we are. If people think that SU football at this moment in time is an outlier unique to college football, that we will experience results unlike almost anyone else currently in the top 35, then that's fine.

And I would take issue with the characterization in your initial post that Shafer is in the midst of a "rebuild". Marrone did the rebuilding, or at least a healthy chunk of it. Shafer did not start from scratch, and his results should be held to that expectation, IMHO.

The lack of quality juniors and seniors speaks for itself.

 

[SWC75]

I never said 2.5 yrs for the next coach. I would hold them to same standard but the next coach is going to way more qualified than SS to be a P5 HC.
I didn't like the hire the day it was announced but I supported the guy. SS resume was horrible not many if any P5 team other than SU would have given the keys to SS. He doesn't get the patience a person taking over a bottom team gets as SU was mediocre.
Our assistant coaching staff has gone backwards from DM as SS has hired all his friend for the most part. I like Acosta and Daoust the rest all MAC/Western Michigan people. Millhouse has already shown those WMU teams were nothing special
Your opinion is your right as mine is. However keeping SS will break the camel's back for me and I will support the team by watching and rooting for them but I will not give my money until the product is better.

Our next coach will have a similar resume to Shafer, (which was not a bad one).

 

[Ozcuse]

The lack of quality juniors and seniors speaks for itself.

Isn't Shafer largely responsible for the lack of veteran talent on the defensive side of the ball? He has recruited that side of the ball the last 7 years and I don't remember losing any when Marrone left for the NFL. That clusterf is all on Shafer.

 

[TheCusian]

Isn't Shafer largely responsible for the lack of veteran talent on the defensive side of the ball? He has recruited that side of the ball the last 7 years and I don't remember losing any when Marrone left for the NFL. That clusterf is all on Shafer.

- there have been a bunch of transfers, season ending injuries, Eskridge to the NFL, Williams being let go, and Juco kids

- where are the junior/seniors?

 

[Ozcuse]

- there have been a bunch of transfers, season ending injuries, Eskridge to the NFL, Williams being let go, and Juco kids

- where are the junior/seniors?

That's college football every year for every program that's not a factory. Plan better, react better, and persevere better.

 

[TheCusian]

That's college football every year for every program that's not a factory. Plan better, react better, and persevere better.

This many young players on the two deep is unusual here. Look it up.

 

[Ozcuse]

This many young players on the two deep is unusual here. Look it up.

You're correct. They didn't plan or react better and now we have very few veterans on the defense.

It's self inflicted similar to the WR problem we will have in 3 years when we have pretty much no juniors or seniors (unless they bring in juco or transfer help). We will act all shocked when we could see it coming a mile away.

 

[Scooch]

Well that's what happens when you switch coaches every 4 years. Some highs with mostly lows.

You keep saying this as if it means something.

Robinson got four years, which was more than enough time to know he was atrocious. Are you suggesting that he deserved more time?

Marrone left. If he didn't leave he would have had a 5th year and most likely is still coach today.

So keep posting this as if you're making some kind of grand point. You're not.

 

[Statesman1]

I think most that would support a 4th year think it's the fair thing to do or the right thing to do for a nice guy. I'm not sure how many of them really think that long term, Shafer can turn us into more than a 6 win type.

So when I think of fairness or the right thing to do, then I immediately think of annual salary. That's a lot of nickels. And he's going to get them all either way.

Life isn't fair. Next man up

 

[Statesman1]

The fact is, what we have here at Syracuse fits my model precisely. We have a team where the vast majority of quality players are freshmen or sophomores. We are less experienced and not as physically strong as most of our opponents. The recruiting seems to be continuing at a higher level than previously and you'd have to think that next year's team will be better than this year's team and that we might have a chance for a real break through in 2017.

But if we tear it up right now, we might find ourselves with a another team that lacks quality juniors and seniors in around 2018.

Or perhaps the good recruiting Shafer and his staff have been doing will give the next guy a better foundation to work with and he can avoid that pitfall.

What we have here at Syracuse is not that the vast majority of quality players are freshmen or sophomores, it's that the vast majority of players are not quality. Sorry, its the truth.

 

[SWC75]

Watching Shafer's demeanor this week in interviews and on his show I get the impression that he knows the end is near. Regardless of the arguments we make a tenure can end just because people say it's ending. That in itself makes it impossible to recruit.

If that's the case and a new guy comes in, my position will be that he has to be given a chance to do his job and that it will take more than three years to determine if he's done it or not. And I'll be arguing with the same people.

 

[tbonezone]

let's modify 3rd year somewhat . shafer's ( unlike say robinson) been in the program since 2009. not exactly a new hire.

 

[Alsacs]

Our next coach will have a similar resume to Shafer, (which was not a bad one).

I don't get how you can say this. SS resume was horrible. He was not on the radar of any P5 teams to be a HC.
SS has never been a HC before. His D's at SU were not elite they were solid after GRob that inflated people's beliefs about him. Bud Foster at VPI has been a DC and his defenses have been elite and he hasn't gotten a P5 job.

SS resume was weak. He got the job because we wanted a internal hire. The next HC if they have been a HC before we already have more on his resume than SS. I expect we will actually hire a prior coach this time.

 

[SWC75]

I don't get how you can say this. SS resume was horrible. He was not on the radar of any P5 teams to be a HC.
SS has never been a HC before. His D's at SU were not elite they were solid after GRob that inflated people's beliefs about him. Bud Foster at VPI has been a DC and his defenses have been elite and he hasn't gotten a P5 job.

SS resume was weak. He got the job because we wanted a internal hire. The next HC if they have been a HC before we already have more on his resume than SS. I expect we will actually hire a prior coach this time.

He was part of a successful rebuilding, from a winless season at Northern Illinois and was was defensive co-ordnator at Stanford when Harbaugh, a mentor of his rebuilt the Stanford program. he was the DC at Michigan and then here. We haven't had an elite anything here for a generation but his defenses have been as close as we've got.

The next guy's resume will be very similar. We aren't getting any of the top candidates. Famous coaches don't come here. Coaches become famous here, if we give them the chance.