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My two cents

BillSU

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When and where did he do that?
The problem is we are not as relevant as we used to be and everyone wants JB to go because he can't coach or recruit. He's the problem everyone says.

In 1965-66 I watched seniors JB 14.6, play with Bing 28.4, along with Sam Penceal, Vaughn Harper, Rick Dean, George Hicker and Richie Cornwall in Manley with Fred Lewis as their coach. I was the spotter for the official scorer right off the floor in front of 10,000 and we were 22-6 and reached Duke in the elite 8. It all started then and got folks excited on the hill.

There were oranges all over the floor and when the opposing teams were introduced each player was greeted by SO WHAT! It was great.

We used to get players who could play both O & D shoot the ball and score but I said at the end of last year we will not be as good this year and so far that's the way things are going.

Buddy, Jimmy and Cole, we miss you and the way you could put the ball in the basket.

What did we expect? With those three gone, basically a new team, a bunch of freshman, Judah Mintz and JGIII, who blew his wad in high school IMO, and is so chronic in his scoring and no one else seems to know why he has lost his confidence or how to score. Of course JB has to show each player how to shoot and score too.

JB said something about Girard post the Illinois game that is very telling in Jim's understanding of Joe. "He's a senior and he's lost his confidence?!" He's not playing that far out of position and he had 31 the other night. Tough to understand JG for me.

The only positive for me is Jesse Edwards - rebound machine and does a fair job down low. He's out on an island by himself with this team.

The days of Bing, Bouie, Orr, Santifer, Bruin, Washington, Douglas, Addison, Wallace, Coleman, Coleman, Hart, Rautins, Schayes, Seikaly, Thompson, Thomas, Wallace, McNamara, Edelin, Warrick, Nichols, Flynn, Devendorf, Joseph, Fair, Nichols Triche, Johnson, Jardine, Waiters, Carter Williams, Gbinjie, Cooney, Richardson, Lydon, Grant, Battle, Brisset and others I didn't mention are gone. No one seems exciting and of course this is again JB's fault because he and the staff can't recruit anymore.

Not living in the past and knowing that JB still has more basketball knowledge than anyone on this board, I think we do need a change to someone who can get talent, exciting talent, into very fine facilities at SU and continue the tradition JB began and carried on through all these years and bring us back to national relevance again.

Maybe Melo could coach his son if it worked out that way.
 
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newmexicuse

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Many good posts above. I am still in shock over how bad this team played.

A couple of observations:

1. Mintz has a world of talent, but he plays totally out of control. As a dog person I would recommend an Easy Walk Harness. He will be terrific, but somebody needs to tell him it will not happen all at once and that he needs to get under control until it does happen.

2. Joe - Clearly, he has lost his confidence. He has been here four years. It really only takes 3 to 5 minutes into a game to see if he is overmatched by his defender or if he will be able to work free for some decent looks. If he is over matched, just bench him for the rest of the game. He adds nothing in D or playmaking. When he cant score he is a negative out there.

3. People are saying we need a PG - well we have one and his name is Symir Torrence. Yes, he lacks scoring skills, but he knows how to play some decent D and find the open man. IMHO, he should be getting 30 MPG. Team needs leadership and he is the most likely source.

4. Shooting - huge bugaboo. Excluding Joe who too often cant get decent looks, the only other guys who seems to have halfway decent 3 point shooting forms are Taylor and Bell. Both are raw, but I think they will eventually get there. The problem is that Bell wont do any dirty work on the glass and Taylor gets his nose into it, but ala Buddy is not a plus athlete.

5. I would like to see a lineup where Jesse plays some PF with Hima at center. It should help the rebounding and D it might keep Jesse out of foul trouble.

6. Benny has improved his shooting, but still has a long ways to go. I do not understand why a player with his plus athleticism cant get himself some drives to the hoop. Maybe his handle is that bad, but I would like to see him try before I make that conclusion.

7. Ajak - sorry, he is way too slow to play the wing in our Zone. He doesnt seem to bring much to the table - his role should be the third center.

8. Copeland and Brown - really haven't seen enough, but in view of how horrific everybody else plays, why not give these guys a longer look.

9. Bottom line - against ACC level competition, center is our only plus position right now. the O should run thru Jesse as much as is possible.

Jimmy - he is so far over the hill he is coaching from the bottom of Death Valley. It is painful to watch the recruiting losses and the on court product. Not much else to say.
 

Newhouser

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There are two options IMO:

1. Start Mintz and Taylor and let them go through all the growing pains. Together.
2. Start Torrence and Mintz. I know Torrence hasn’t been good thus far. We all know he’s capable of playing better.
So we know Symir is capable of playing better but we don't think Joe has a track record of playing better? Joe has been awful and if we want to go youth I am all in, but if we want to sub a bad vet for a worse one, I don't get that.
 

Cusefan0307

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So we know Symir is capable of playing better but we don't think Joe has a track record of playing better? Joe has been awful and if we want to go youth I am all in, but if we want to sub a bad vet for a worse one, I don't get that.
I thought Symir would have a good season, but he's been worse than Joe this year and every year of his career.
 

newmexicuse

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I thought Symir would have a good season, but he's been worse than Joe this year and every year of his career.
Not taking many shots is better than 2 for 25 or whatever the heck Joe has shot since his one big game.

IMHO, if you gave Symir the keys he would play adequately.
 

Cusefan0307

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Not taking many shots is better than 2 for 25 or whatever the heck Joe has shot since his one big game.

IMHO, if you gave Symir the keys he would play adequately.
He averages almost two turnovers a game in 17 minutes. I don't think Joe always hustles and his shooting has been bad, but the entire team stinks and we have guys playing as bad or worse than him. That can't be ignored.
 

Day2

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So we know Symir is capable of playing better but we don't think Joe has a track record of playing better? Joe has been awful and if we want to go youth I am all in, but if we want to sub a bad vet for a worse one, I don't get that.
The effort isn’t there with Girard. Is Torrence a worse ball handler than Girard? A worse passer? A worse defender?
 

hoopsupstate

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Symir’s defense has not been good. He’s constantly late covering three point shooters and he alone couldn’t stop the dribbler against Bryant. He dribbles too much without going anywhere. He was effective last year because he would penetrate just to kick it back to one of our three shooters. He has no one to pass to this year. I would rather JB tries to see if Copeland is a potential point guard in this program. Symir has a role but another non scorer is tough on this team.
 

Melancer46

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It seems that the idea of Symir continues to be much better than actual Symir. He was dreadful at Marquette. The fact that he was able to get another school as high-profile as Syracuse to take him in was a stroke of luck for Symir, but he's been bad here too. Almost literally incapable of scoring and his defense is only an upgrade for us because Joe is the guy he replaces in the lineup. He is not a short-term or long-term answer for this team. I know he's a local and I wish he were good too, but he's unfortunately just not a high major caliber player.
 

MikeSU02

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So we know Symir is capable of playing better but we don't think Joe has a track record of playing better? Joe has been awful and if we want to go youth I am all in, but if we want to sub a bad vet for a worse one, I don't get that.

We are 3-4 and looking at an awful year on a better-part-of-a-decade downturn.

Start Mintz and JT and let's roll with youth. Joe can come off the bench.

Sy is there in case someone gets hurt or spot minutes. Play for the future.
 

kcsu

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I would still go with Joe at the 1 for a few games and sub Taylor for Joe at which point Mintz goes to the 1.
I would also give Copeland some run at the 1 with any combo of Joe, Mintz or Taylor at the 2. Cope and Taylor would be great at the top of the zone
 

newmexicuse

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We are 3-4 and looking at an awful year on a better-part-of-a-decade downturn.

Start Mintz and JT and let's roll with youth. Joe can come off the bench.

Sy is there in case someone gets hurt or spot minutes. Play for the future.
I agree we should go with youth, but the youth cannot develop without someone experienced out there to run the O and get players the ball in the right situations. That being said, from what I have seen so far this season, I think the following would be our best lineup in most situations:

Mintz
Torrence
Taylor
Edwards
Williams

Other things I would like to see that are not happening:

1. Jesse at PF with Hima at the Five. Hopefully Jesse would foul less playing at the four and we would be huge up front.
2. Copeland getting some minutes @ PG. The few times he is on the court, he is playing out of position. The leash would need to be short, but I think he has the potential to be the best on the squad in terms of seeing the floor. Let that play out a little bit and see if Q could carve out a larger role.
3. Bell at the two with Taylor at the three when Mintz sits or when Mintz runs the point. This should really be the opposite, but Taylor gets some boards and Bell doesnt, but with so few shooters on the team, Chris needs to be out there and he isnt cutting it at the threespot off the glass. That would also give us some backcourt length.
 

CousCuse

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I would still go with Joe at the 1 for a few games and sub Taylor for Joe at which point Mintz goes to the 1.
I would also give Copeland some run at the 1 with any combo of Joe, Mintz or Taylor at the 2. Cope and Taylor would be great at the top of the zone
This is what needs to happen if they want to get the offense moving. When Joe runs the PNR with Jesse, it pulls 2 defenders way out because they both have to be ready to stop Joe from shooting the 3. That will open spacing up for judah n benny to go to the rim.
 

MikeSU02

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I agree we should go with youth, but the youth cannot develop without someone experienced out there to run the O and get players the ball in the right situations. That being said, from what I have seen so far this season, I think the following would be our best lineup in most situations:

Mintz
Torrence
Taylor
Edwards
Williams

Other things I would like to see that are not happening:

1. Jesse at PF with Hima at the Five. Hopefully Jesse would foul less playing at the four and we would be huge up front.
2. Copeland getting some minutes @ PG. The few times he is on the court, he is playing out of position. The leash would need to be short, but I think he has the potential to be the best on the squad in terms of seeing the floor. Let that play out a little bit and see if Q could carve out a larger role.
3. Bell at the two with Taylor at the three when Mintz sits or when Mintz runs the point. This should really be the opposite, but Taylor gets some boards and Bell doesnt, but with so few shooters on the team, Chris needs to be out there and he isnt cutting it at the threespot off the glass. That would also give us some backcourt length.

Sincere question, why our experience? Joe and Sy should not be starting ACC players. They should barely be in a top ACC team's rotation, if at all.

Also, Joe's experience, to me, isn't something I want rubbing off on Judah, Q, etc.

Mintz is our only guard that can beat guys off the dribble consistently (granted he's hitting a brick wall figuring out help defense).

Mintz and JT. One driver/ball handler. JT is a big guard, can shoot over smaller guys. Hopefully can develop on the defensive end with his size. Q can get minutes. Joe is obviously not going fully out of the rotation. If he's on, great.

Jesse and Hima is a hard pass for me. Jesse is our center and gets in foul trouble. We need Hima as backup so we can get 40 solid minutes out of the 5. Jesse's foul trouble won't stop. He can't play 30 mins without at least one offensive foul while trying to get position on the block or making a move down low.

I've just come to the conclusion that Bell will keep starting. I'm fine with Benny getting the start and if he's bad, putting in Brown.

JBA shouldn't be playing.

Carey probably isn't ready yet.

Start: Mintz, JT, Bell, Benny, Jesse (this should space the floor a bit)

Guard rotation: Joe and Q
Forward rotation: Brown and JT sliding down to the 3.

Center rotation: Hima

That's basically 8.5 (not sure who would be the half is)

I don't care if we only win 15 games, at least we'll see what we have going forward.
 

newmexicuse

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Sincere question, why our experience? Joe and Sy should not be starting ACC players. They should barely be in a top ACC team's rotation, if at all.

Also, Joe's experience, to me, isn't something I want rubbing off on Judah, Q, etc.

Mintz is our only guard that can beat guys off the dribble consistently (granted he's hitting a brick wall figuring out help defense).

Mintz and JT. One driver/ball handler. JT is a big guard, can shoot over smaller guys. Hopefully can develop on the defensive end with his size. Q can get minutes. Joe is obviously not going fully out of the rotation. If he's on, great.

Jesse and Hima is a hard pass for me. Jesse is our center and gets in foul trouble. We need Hima as backup so we can get 40 solid minutes out of the 5. Jesse's foul trouble won't stop. He can't play 30 mins without at least one offensive foul while trying to get position on the block or making a move down low.

I've just come to the conclusion that Bell will keep starting. I'm fine with Benny getting the start and if he's bad, putting in Brown.

JBA shouldn't be playing.

Carey probably isn't ready yet.

Start: Mintz, JT, Bell, Benny, Jesse (this should space the floor a bit)

Guard rotation: Joe and Q
Forward rotation: Brown and JT sliding down to the 3.

Center rotation: Hima

That's basically 8.5 (not sure who would be the half is)

I don't care if we only win 15 games, at least we'll see what we have going forward.
Respect your views and points of disagreement until the last comment about “only” winning 15 games. This team will be lucky to reach double digit wins, and, in fact, that will not happen unless we get some quantum improvement from at least two players.
 

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