My two cents

[oTTo113445]

I know rebounding is in question some, but Simple drills in practice like anytime, you give up a 3 you sprint a lap and wait out 3 plays (other than Jessie). Same thing in game for forwards. Maybe a 5-minute bench rest. Joe, Judah, and Edwards are really the only guys, especially on the offensive end who have earned more than 20 minutes no matter the game. Brown might be closing in on the over given the last 2.
Execution is more important than hustle. Not punishment but for results. We stop a couple of those 3's against Pitt we win easily. At this point in the season, 80% of the time, that is what we are going to need the most from everyone else.

 

[althea]

The biggest problem the team had last night was dealing with the bad karma produced by "if pitt was a person" thread.

 

[Lukeyloo]

Brown showed a willingness to attack his man but without needing more than one dribble too. That is so much more efficient than how Benny does it.

Benny plays weak. Brown is the opposite.

 

[Newhouser]

Good points all. I've said before and I'm saying it again, the pieces are on this roster to succeed. Its up to the coaches, primarily JAB, to find the right combination each game. Last night if Copeland gets 10 more minutes we win. He is essentially a PG but hustles more than most thought he would. Like Brown, the ball seems to find him. The Josh Pace role is still there and is needed because he can actually create his own shot. I'm OK with Benny and Bell starting but Jim has to pull their trigger quicker if its not working. I wouldn't mind Cope taking some of Sy's minutes also. Sy can't shoot, doesn't pass except around the perimeter and basically is a dribbling machine. Good effort on D but Cope is 6'6". I still think Taylor might be the right guy to start instead of Bell.
Defensively I fully endorse the press. The inconsistent lineup and lack of cohesion cry out for more press. Sub people out because they are tired and have been busting their butt not just because they made a bad pass or missed a shot or god forbid didn't rotate to cover the corner. You never know who might catch fire. Other than Joe, Judah and Jesse there is little difference between #4 and #11 on our bench. So use that to our advantage instead the weakness it has been.
Going forward I want a quicker ID of who provides the best matchup that game.

I am in total agreement on your last sentence. Not only matchup but energy - if Joe, Judah or Jesse aren't engaged, lets give them a rest sooner rather than later.

 

[tbonezone]

it was nice to see the youngsters fight back . game was over at the ten minute mark. release the trunk monkey. JB says we're not a pressing team but with the bodies we have this year we have the fouls and energy to spend. put Hima on the back end and bring the heat ! is it me or is Judah on the floor more than a roomba ? refs hate a flopper. it'll catch up with him.

 

[kcsu]

Good points all. I've said before and I'm saying it again, the pieces are on this roster to succeed. Its up to the coaches, primarily JAB, to find the right combination each game. Last night if Copeland gets 10 more minutes we win. He is essentially a PG but hustles more than most thought he would. Like Brown, the ball seems to find him. The Josh Pace role is still there and is needed because he can actually create his own shot. I'm OK with Benny and Bell starting but Jim has to pull their trigger quicker if its not working. I wouldn't mind Cope taking some of Sy's minutes also. Sy can't shoot, doesn't pass except around the perimeter and basically is a dribbling machine. Good effort on D but Cope is 6'6". I still think Taylor might be the right guy to start instead of Bell.
Defensively I fully endorse the press. The inconsistent lineup and lack of cohesion cry out for more press. Sub people out because they are tired and have been busting their butt not just because they made a bad pass or missed a shot or god forbid didn't rotate to cover the corner. You never know who might catch fire. Other than Joe, Judah and Jesse there is little difference between #4 and #11 on our bench. So use that to our advantage instead the weakness it has been.
Going forward I want a quicker ID of who provides the best matchup that game.

Ive posted this before but i was recruited by Jim who wanted me to go to a prep school to get stronger and i ended up playing a division down for a HOF coach. He used the press to wake us up. It worked.

The other thing that he did was to use time outs when we made a run to come back. He did this to reset the game. His point was that most teams that claw back take a break once they get back to even or take a slight lead. He always would take a TO to reset us. Two great coaching moves that worked

 

[oTTo113445]

Watched the replay, I was totally wrong. The first 7 threes Pitt made were right over our guards. they didn't even go to the corners. The guard defense was killing us unto we went to the press at the 15 min mark of the second half. Bell and Benny were actually pretty good, just Pitt was scorching hot up top.

Idk, Maybe extended matchup more at the one and the two? Even Symir or Judah at the three with a half-court press of some kind. Let Girard use his quickness to make them pick up the ball some. Can't press all game.

 

[Orangeman]

JB’s press has no rules. It’s all about getting steals. Good pressing teams will get some steals, but it’s not the end all. Pressing can create tempo and also force opposing teams to play differently. You could see last night that it changed the way Pitt played. You don’t gamble on stealing a pass unless there is a great double team, not just a good one. The farther you are from the double team allows you to be the farthest away from your man. A great double allows you to shoot the gap and make a steal. SU’s press gambles on everything and leaves Jesse all by himself. Great pressing teams make steals on the other end of the court, but that takes extreme effort to run back to make a play. I’ve never seen this from a SU pressing team. It’s either in the front or not at all.

As I've said before, our press is TERRIBLE coaching

 

[Day2]

Im not convinced that Williams and Bell do. I think that we have team of forwards that are all flawed and that depending on the night each of them might shine or fail. JB cant get in love with one kid and keep riding him rather he needs to play the hot hand

It seems that JB wants an outside shooter at one spot, which is either Bell or Taylor. Bell’s a little taller and more athletic, so he’s the guy.

For the other spot, JB wants a power forward-type, so his choices are Williams, Brown, and JBA. Williams starts because he’s the best shooter of the three.

Copeland is a wild card because he’s really a guard. While he’s not the same caliber shooter as Bell or Taylor, he can play point forward, which potentially helps Girard and Mintz.

So JB’s hope is that Bell and Williams will eventually figure out the defense and show a greater willingness to rebound. Offensively, Bell becomes a more consistent shooter and Williams combines scoring in the post with his mid-range game. That’s our highest ceiling.

If Brown starts, we become more of a grind it out team. I’m fine with that.

 

[NorSyr66]

it was nice to see the youngsters fight back . game was over at the ten minute mark. release the trunk monkey. JB says we're not a pressing team but with the bodies we have this year we have the fouls and energy to spend. put Hima on the back end and bring the heat ! is it me or is Judah on the floor more than a roomba ? refs hate a flopper. it'll catch up with him.

I agree and need to over emphasize we need Hima on the back end. I really cringed when Jesse picked up unnecessarily number 4 last night while press was on. Maybe even play Brown at 5 for the press.

 

[OrangeinDC]

Good points all. I've said before and I'm saying it again, the pieces are on this roster to succeed. Its up to the coaches, primarily JAB, to find the right combination each game. Last night if Copeland gets 10 more minutes we win. He is essentially a PG but hustles more than most thought he would. Like Brown, the ball seems to find him. The Josh Pace role is still there and is needed because he can actually create his own shot. I'm OK with Benny and Bell starting but Jim has to pull their trigger quicker if its not working. I wouldn't mind Cope taking some of Sy's minutes also. Sy can't shoot, doesn't pass except around the perimeter and basically is a dribbling machine. Good effort on D but Cope is 6'6". I still think Taylor might be the right guy to start instead of Bell.
Defensively I fully endorse the press. The inconsistent lineup and lack of cohesion cry out for more press. Sub people out because they are tired and have been busting their butt not just because they made a bad pass or missed a shot or god forbid didn't rotate to cover the corner. You never know who might catch fire. Other than Joe, Judah and Jesse there is little difference between #4 and #11 on our bench. So use that to our advantage instead the weakness it has been.
Going forward I want a quicker ID of who provides the best matchup that game.

Nice Post..

 

[Cuse#1]

Jim keeps talking about how Bell and Williams don't rebound which, of course, reflects reality. However, are they working on it? I can't understand how players can make it to this level without knowing how to rebound but it is apparently the case. Do they practice rebounding... especially boxing out? Very frustrating to watch.

well JB is the cause and creator of his own overdue creation which im sure we all know that playing the zone, its alot harder or just less likely cause not assigned to a man to box out so most of the time we are being outrebounded.
Just another great/bizarre reason to play a zone 40 mins a game

 

[kcsu]

Playing the zone full time in todays age of 3 point shooters isnt going to be successful.

Two reasons.
1: Everyone shoots the 3.
2: Jim doesn’t keep players long enough in todays transfer world to teach them how to play it.

These kids all play man in HS.

Jims Zone is no longer an asset its a liability. We are losing games because we dont play man, or at a minimum switch up Ds.

Colgate
Bryant
Pittsburgh

All winnable games if we had played man.

 

[rocklloyd]

Playing the zone full time in todays age of 3 point shooters isnt going to be successful.

Two reasons.
1: Everyone shoots the 3.
2: Jim doesn’t keep players long enough in todays transfer world to teach them how to play it.

These kids all play man in HS.

Jims Zone is no longer an asset its a liability. We are losing games because we dont play man, or at a minimum switch up Ds.

Colgate
Bryant
Pittsburgh

All winnable games if we had played man.

With the exception of an occasional team who might be unfamiliar with zone, I think you nailed it. I’d like to see more rebounding as well.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

All winnable games if we had good played man.

FIFY but I don’t think the guys can play good M2M. Now, they don’t play good zone, either.

 

[xc84]

well JB is the cause and creator of his own overdue creation which im sure we all know that playing the zone, its alot harder or just less likely cause not assined to a man to box out so most of the time we are being outrebounded.
Just another great/bizarre reason to play a zone 40 mins a game

I wish I had a dollar for every time my coach said “find a man” when a shot went up while we were playing zone defense. They don’t do that and it has nothing to do with them playing zone. Sure, it’s not as simple to know who you box out but they don’t even attempt it. It can be done but I see no effort.

I am a little tired of Jim complaining about Bell and Williams not rebounding yet continuing to start them. Put players in who want to play a complete game.

 

[billsin01]

Good points all. I've said before and I'm saying it again, the pieces are on this roster to succeed. Its up to the coaches, primarily JAB, to find the right combination each game. Last night if Copeland gets 10 more minutes we win. He is essentially a PG but hustles more than most thought he would. Like Brown, the ball seems to find him. The Josh Pace role is still there and is needed because he can actually create his own shot. I'm OK with Benny and Bell starting but Jim has to pull their trigger quicker if its not working. I wouldn't mind Cope taking some of Sy's minutes also. Sy can't shoot, doesn't pass except around the perimeter and basically is a dribbling machine. Good effort on D but Cope is 6'6". I still think Taylor might be the right guy to start instead of Bell.
Defensively I fully endorse the press. The inconsistent lineup and lack of cohesion cry out for more press. Sub people out because they are tired and have been busting their butt not just because they made a bad pass or missed a shot or god forbid didn't rotate to cover the corner. You never know who might catch fire. Other than Joe, Judah and Jesse there is little difference between #4 and #11 on our bench. So use that to our advantage instead the weakness it has been.
Going forward I want a quicker ID of who provides the best matchup that game.

So I disagree with some of this but I absolutely agree with the general premise -- I'm not entirely sure how you'd 'succeed' because I'd say I'm still a bit lukewarm on what the actual ceiling is here. But we at least agree that we have enough to beat Pitt and Colgate and Bryant, etc.

I disagree a bit on Torrence only because I think he brings defined positive qualities -- he's a ball-handler, solid passer (at least in terms of being smart with the ball), strong defensive presence, brings a lot of energy, and I would say he's improved to at least being a guy who can get you an occasional bucket (last year it felt like every basket might be his last). I'm more in the mode of thinking he may be one of our best five players but he'll never get those minutes b/c you need Joe's scoring/shooting and Judah is obviously much more impactful and has a much higher ceiling.

But while JB has done a good job using a bunch of players this season, I do think we are at a point where we need to be able quickly figure out who will work in a matchup and who won't. Some of this we know. My list of things we know are these:

• Brown needs to play a bunch at forward. He's simply better than Bell/Taylor/Benny. You may start those guys ahead of him, that's fine, but Brown is too productive and solid not to be a central figure in the forward rotation going forward.
• Edwards/Joe/Judah are 1-2-3 some order and will play a ton.
• We may need the scoring that Benny/Bell occasionally bring, but we have to balance that against the empty calories they provide quite often. I was shocked when I looked at this number: Benny has 10 blocks for his career. That is a phenomenal statistic for a long, athletic, talented forward who I at least believe plays hard and wants to contribute. 10 blocks in 663 minutes in a zone defense with a bunch of those minutes against non P-5 teams. Incredible. Bell is similar -- he's done a reasonable job of putting the ball in the basket (which has value), but he has just one game of 4+ rebounds (cornell) and has a combined 10 total assists/steals/blocks. There is literally almost nothing other than scoring.
• JBA likely fits somewhere. He hasn't played, essentially, in the last two but his motor, size and passing help at least in short stints or in certain matchups.
• Hima is a decent backup big.
• We can't sit exclusively in a 2-3 with this group and think it's going to be enough. 1-3-1 and occasional press feel like a desperate need in somewhat desperate times.

What we don't know:

• Can we get something out of Quadir this season? His best two games are our last two games. Thought he had a very solid 4-min stretch in a game that wasn't entirely over vs. Cornell and then played very well vs. Pitt. Two blocks and a steal against pitt and I think there's potential for him to make things happen with his passing when the game slows down for him. Not totally sure that would be this year, but you have to think Pitt earns him a few minutes going forward.
• Can Taylor contribute? Love the kid's skill but not sure he's confident enough at the moment. Maybe reps help with that, maybe not.

Anyway, not sure we see eye-to-eye on all of this but the bottom line is we need to get creative with lineups and defenses with this group b/c the one thing we do have, at a minimum, is a bunch of pieces that could potential be a bit better than the sum of its parts. I actually give JB credit for not writing off a brown or copeland -- just hope he is able to figure out the right mix going forward.

 

[billsin01]

FIFY but I don’t think the guys can play good M2M. Now, they don’t play good zone, either.

Yeah, good m2m also looks an awful lot like zone. Having athletes and matching them up and saying go get 'em is AAU junk. Our man looked a little better at times but at others was brutal.

 

[MikeSU02]

Playing the zone full time in todays age of 3 point shooters isnt going to be successful.

Two reasons.
1: Everyone shoots the 3.
2: Jim doesn’t keep players long enough in todays transfer world to teach them how to play it.

These kids all play man in HS.

Jims Zone is no longer an asset its a liability. We are losing games because we dont play man, or at a minimum switch up Ds.

Colgate
Bryant
Pittsburgh

All winnable games if we had played man.

3. And I don't mean to pile on, but you need length at height, including the guards up top.

 

[grepal]

The zone works unless a team or player is really hot. The question is, will the players execute the closeouts. Man to man does not work if you don't adhere to its' principles either. Defense is very much about desire and hustle, just like rebounding. Height ip top is good. If Q develops more offensive control he will be great up top.

 

[MikeSU02]

The zone works unless a team or player is really hot. The question is, will the players execute the closeouts. Man to man does not work if you don't adhere to its' principles either. Defense is very much about desire and hustle, just like rebounding. Height ip top is good. If Q develops more offensive control he will be great up top.

I would argue you have it backward. The zone allows guys to get hot because of the looks they can get.

Defense and rebounding have a ton of technical aspects to them. A ton.

 

[grepal]

Think of all of the games SU wins because players fall in love with the three ball and a team shoots 30 or so pct. Now think of all the games SU loses because guys fall in love with the three and shoot over 40 pct for the entire game. I think closeouts have a ton to do with this. What I wish would change is what JB did change the last 10 minutes or so. If a team just keeps shooting lights out speed them up with a press and do not let them feel so comfortable. One thing that drives me crazy is that to start almost every game we give up a wide open three from the top and are usually down 3 zip to start. I wish the guards would move out 3 feet or so and contest the shot but maybe JB is thinking he wants teams to fall in love with the three early. I just dont know.

 

[tbonezone]

Playing the zone full time in todays age of 3 point shooters isnt going to be successful.

Two reasons.
1: Everyone shoots the 3.
2: Jim doesn’t keep players long enough in todays transfer world to teach them how to play it.

These kids all play man in HS.

Jims Zone is no longer an asset its a liability. We are losing games because we dont play man, or at a minimum switch up Ds.

Colgate
Bryant
Pittsburgh

All winnable games if we had played man.

jim has tied his wagon and legacy to the zone. it's his calling card. and even when it's
clearly not working he can't kick the habit. too old and stubborn . it's become who he is.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not sure what is happening in practice but during games Brown is our best forward. He needs to play. Bell is ok but he is one dimensional and doesn't rebound or play very good D. Benny is average at everything, exceptional at nothing.
In life effort matters. The effort kids on this team are jesse, cope , brown, mintz, jac,
Joe is streaky with his effort. Does well when the crowd is into it.
Benny, Bell not so much.
I posted this last game and tonight solidifies this thought.
Jim needs to press occasionally to get the kids into a higher gear. A higher effort level. The press does this naturally. It speeds the game. Creates pace. I think JB needs to use the press as an effort tool. It works.

Going forward i want more Brown, Copeland. Less Benny and Bell.
Switch those four players minutes and we win more games.
Effort matters.

Good post. The press could ignite better overall effort on D. A lot of people agree with you that Maliq Brown is our most useful forward, most dependable, does the little things well.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Think of all of the games SU wins because players fall in love with the three ball and a team shoots 30 or so pct. Now think of all the games SU loses because guys fall in love with the three and shoot over 40 pct for the entire game. I think closeouts have a ton to do with this. What I wish would change is what JB did change the last 10 minutes or so. If a team just keeps shooting lights out speed them up with a press and do not let them feel so comfortable. One thing that drives me crazy is that to start almost every game we give up a wide open three from the top and are usually down 3 zip to start. I wish the guards would move out 3 feet or so and contest the shot but maybe JB is thinking he wants teams to fall in love with the three early. I just dont know.

If our guards would just go over the screens, that would help tremendously