My two cents

[baggerbob]

At least in my mind, you do not need to be the primary ball handler to be the team leader. I know it helps but you should not have to be the top scorer, assist maker or rebounder to be the team leader. Talk the talk and walk the talk.

Q needs to replace either Bell or Taylor so he is in the starting lineup. He usually seems to be the one talking when he is on the floor.
You can't lead when you aren't on the floor, and Judah has a tendency to have times where he puts his head down, and all he does is drive to the hoop.

 

[djcon57]

On one hand you are saying JT doesn't move off ball, but on the other he cannot get shots quick enough.

He's not able to get shots off bc he's never open. He's never open because he is not moving.

Just bc we are resorting to desperation & savior ball doesn't mean it is a good choice.

Teach the kids the right way to play & demand they do it.

I never once said he doesn’t move off the ball. I said he moves without purpose.

 

[swish7]

I never once said he doesn’t move off the ball. I said he moves without purpose.

Moving without purpose & not moving are kissing cousins. JTs complete stagnation this year is really unfortunate.

 

[NorSyr66]

Q needs to replace either Bell or Taylor so he is in the starting lineup. He usually seems to be the one talking when he is on the floor.
You can't lead when you aren't on the floor, and Judah has a tendency to have times where he puts his head down, and all he does is drive to the hoop.

I think we are agreeing but I see Q in more of a 3 guard offense with Judah, JJ, Brown and Benny. Agree he must be on the floor but he needs to step up as the leader of this team. No one else has demonstrated the skill

 

[baggerbob]

I think we are agreeing but I see Q in more of a 3 guard offense with Judah, JJ, Brown and Benny. Agree he must be on the floor but he needs to step up as the leader of this team. No one else has demonstrated the skill

I agree that is the best lineup, and Q needs to be the leader.

 

[CardiacCuse]

My biggest concern is we are 2/3 of the way through the season and I still don’t see a coherent offensive identity. We space the floor and someone (usually JM) drives to the hoop and heaves up a bad shot and we prey for a foul.

I think defensively we are on the right track. We are no longer a one trick pony. Given time and some roster turnover I think we can be more consistent in this area. Offense I’m not so sure.

they finally hit the identity in the 2nd half run when they made like 9 or 10 buckets in a row

that was beautiful offense

just play like that all game (problem is maliq cant play 40 like that)

but will they remember that? and do it again?

doesnt seem likely

its rough...but this team doesnt seem to be able to learn much from their games

they have gotten better this season but the last few losses have been brutal examples of low bball IQ

which is concerning

 

[Red Holzman]

imo no team is going to the dance these days without reliable long range artillery to shell the enemy position out of the paint. as you point out. we lack that. fatal campaign flaw.

LOL
tbonezone, from pork chop hill!

 

[IthacaBarrel]

That is desperation. Desperation is not a strategy.

We apparently run a 3 man weave. So, if we can do that, we can teach guys to cut off-ball. Lots that a coach can do to teach basic offensive IQ, IMO. I only mention those guys because they made their money that way, not to compare to Red.

We have JT and Bell standing around waiting for their opportunity to miss 3s.

Miami & UConn are a couple teams that play that midmajor game, IMO.

I agree with you on Mintz but that’s the strateg for now, you should probably check not only the coaches of Miami and UConn but the talent level as well. Plenty of NBA players that you feel employ the mid major brand of basketball, I’m too lazy to look it up but not best your best take.

Red needs more talent and things will be fine. Hurley isn’t a genius he just has had some really great players

 

[OmahaCuse]

I'm not pleased. This is brutal to watch.

How can you say with such confidence that all of those specific players would or would not be here bc of the coaching choice?

People dog JB, fine. After 50 years, there's lots of material. He probably should had bolted some 10 years ago, but he didn't. But, its not about JB. Its about Red.

Red was active in the portal. That's a plus. Some good choices on paper, but none of the portal kids have worked out. His choices.

Prior to FSU and BC, we were tracking towards a pretty amazing season, all things considered. Now, we are not. We are tracking towards a mediocre season. Better than last year, but still mediocre. Arguably trending in the right direction, but still mediocre.

The lack of an offensive identity falls on Red.

The lack of individual offensive IQ falls on the players recruited mostly, but also on Red. Who is being coached up?

My two biggest concerns are the lack of offensive identity as a team, and poor offensive IQ from individuals.

Seems like the Gonzagas and Butlers of the world were able to coach dudes up on O, and now are getting top tier players. Would love to see that kind of offense in the dome.

Also concerned with how easily guards slice through us on D. Its uncanny. We play with effort for about 50-70% of the games.

I like many things Red is doing (patience with Benny, experimenting with lineups, etc). Hopeful for the future, but this is not fun to watch, at all.

So Butler is .500 this year thats good? Red inherited this team, like where he is

 

[swish7]

So Butler is .500 this year thats good? Red inherited this team, like where he is

You're missing a lot of points.
Red constructed a good portion of this team.
Red establishes the team strategy, & the culture.
Red selects lineups which reflect and reward the culture he allows.
We are not going to make the dance, which should be our lowest tolerance level as fans.
Stop blaming Boeheim.

Red has his 3 years overall to show progress. Need to talk about something in the interim.

Butler played / plays high IQ ball. Teams that want to win do as well. We play low IQ ball.

If we're blaming the players that RED himself literally recruited for JB, then criticism of their recruiter is fair.

If it's the players fault, I hope he cleans house in the off season & brings leadership, toughness, IQ, & shooters into the fold.

 

[kcsu]

I'm not pleased. This is brutal to watch.

How can you say with such confidence that all of those specific players would or would not be here bc of the coaching choice?

People dog JB, fine. After 50 years, there's lots of material. He probably should had bolted some 10 years ago, but he didn't. But, its not about JB. Its about Red.

Red was active in the portal. That's a plus. Some good choices on paper, but none of the portal kids have worked out. His choices.

Prior to FSU and BC, we were tracking towards a pretty amazing season, all things considered. Now, we are not. We are tracking towards a mediocre season. Better than last year, but still mediocre. Arguably trending in the right direction, but still mediocre.

The lack of an offensive identity falls on Red.

The lack of individual offensive IQ falls on the players recruited mostly, but also on Red. Who is being coached up?

My two biggest concerns are the lack of offensive identity as a team, and poor offensive IQ from individuals.

Seems like the Gonzagas and Butlers of the world were able to coach dudes up on O, and now are getting top tier players. Would love to see that kind of offense in the dome.

Also concerned with how easily guards slice through us on D. Its uncanny. We play with effort for about 50-70% of the games.

I like many things Red is doing (patience with Benny, experimenting with lineups, etc). Hopeful for the future, but this is not fun to watch, at all.

Its considerably more fun to watch than the last few years as what I'm seeing provides hope vs the last few years there was none. As to the ID of the team we are flawed. Passing the ball is great but if you can't make shots it doesn't matter. However, I do completely agree that we tend to take bad shots especially at poor times.
Taylor becoming a brick layer has really hurt. Losing our center as well as Brown is playing out of position. I would like to see Q at the point vs the three once in a while and would like to see a line up of Brown Carey Q JJ and Judah get some run. All in all i think we are doing well. Red has a very long ways to go as a coach but i believe he will get there and if not JW will pull the plug and it will be time to go outside. My money is on Red but he wont get more than four years to turn us around.

Next year we need a scoring forward and a center. I think we are good at Guard if JJ comes back, and Chance is good to go. As to Judah I would love to have him back next year as I do believe he will finally find an outside shot and he is starting to become more of a facilitator.
Not sure what everyone expected but I believe this is better than most of us thought. Keep the faith we are improving and next year is going to be much better.

 

[kcsu]

You're missing a lot of points.
Red constructed a good portion of this team.
Red establishes the team strategy, & the culture.
Red selects lineups which reflect and reward the culture he allows.
We are not going to make the dance, which should be our lowest tolerance level as fans.
Stop blaming Boeheim.

Red has his 3 years overall to show progress. Need to talk about something in the interim.

Butler played / plays high IQ ball. Teams that want to win do as well. We play low IQ ball.

If we're blaming the players that RED himself literally recruited for JB, then criticism of their recruiter is fair.

If it's the players fault, I hope he cleans house in the off season & brings leadership, toughness, IQ, & shooters into the fold.

Please Red inherited a mess.

 

[Newhouser]

Its considerably more fun to watch than the last few years as what I'm seeing provides hope vs the last few years there was none. As to the ID of the team we are flawed. Passing the ball is great but if you can't make shots it doesn't matter. However, I do completely agree that we tend to take bad shots especially at poor times.
Taylor becoming a brick layer has really hurt. Losing our center as well as Brown is playing out of position. I would like to see Q at the point vs the three once in a while and would like to see a line up of Brown Carey Q JJ and Judah get some run. All in all i think we are doing well. Red has a very long ways to go as a coach but i believe he will get there and if not JW will pull the plug and it will be time to go outside. My money is on Red but he wont get more than four years to turn us around.

Next year we need a scoring forward and a center. I think we are good at Guard if JJ comes back, and Chance is good to go. As to Judah I would love to have him back next year as I do believe he will finally find an outside shot and he is starting to become more of a facilitator.
Not sure what everyone expected but I believe this is better than most of us thought. Keep the faith we are improving and next year is going to be much better.

Bad shots are the biggest negative on this team because A) we aren't good enough to make them and B) it leads to easy points on the other end and our margin is too thin to give away possessions on either end.

 

[swish7]

Its considerably more fun to watch than the last few years as what I'm seeing provides hope vs the last few years there was none. As to the ID of the team we are flawed. Passing the ball is great but if you can't make shots it doesn't matter. However, I do completely agree that we tend to take bad shots especially at poor times.
Taylor becoming a brick layer has really hurt. Losing our center as well as Brown is playing out of position. I would like to see Q at the point vs the three once in a while and would like to see a line up of Brown Carey Q JJ and Judah get some run. All in all i think we are doing well. Red has a very long ways to go as a coach but i believe he will get there and if not JW will pull the plug and it will be time to go outside. My money is on Red but he wont get more than four years to turn us around.

Next year we need a scoring forward and a center. I think we are good at Guard if JJ comes back, and Chance is good to go. As to Judah I would love to have him back next year as I do believe he will finally find an outside shot and he is starting to become more of a facilitator.
Not sure what everyone expected but I believe this is better than most of us thought. Keep the faith we are improving and next year is going to be much better.

Great response.
My thought is with a more complex & purposeful, higher IQ plan, more movement & seeking out the least challenging shots, our shooting percentages would increase.
I don't think they have a good plan, or if they do, it's pretty thin, & breaks down easily.
Of course, you also need players to execute well...

I didn't like the losing, but I did enjoy watching Buddy & Jimmy play. They had that old man's YMCA game, which is fun to watch.

At times, the team is fun to watch, but as the Orange nation podcast said & Lawrence Moten agreed, they are consistently inconsistent. They stop playing for stretches, go through the motions, lack grit. It's brutal for, me at least, to watch.

I don't watch sports for the type of offense or defense the teams are playing. I watch it hoping to catch glimpses of the magic that can come when effort & execution & passion meet and overcome otherwise insurmountable odds.

Agree that Taylor's stagnation really hurts. I don't get it. My only thought is that his role definition is a mismatch with whatever Red wants. I see him deferring, when he should be a triple threat. This in turn is putting Judah & JJ into more awkward situations. Instead of driving or shooting, he's passing to someone who is covered.

I too hope Red can do it. This Freeman kid looks good.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I maybe Crazy (maybe?) but wondering if either Bell or JT has a specific side that they believe they shoot better from or if another player is side specific and spacing would be an issue having the forwards initiating movement from side to side? There appears to be no movement on offense from side to side by either of them. To be honest but I can’t recall if JJ has a “favorite“ side? I can understand spacing but the offense should have coordinated motion but wonder if there’s some reason players are stagnant because another player is dictating a favorite side? Judah,Brown and Q seem to be the only players I recall initiating offense from the middle, occasionally JJ). Many shooters like JoeG, Buddy etc often got their shots from the top of the key yet our current shooters never seem to be schemed to take shots from anywhere but the side. That means that only quick ball movement side to side can really free them up since we don’t screen for them nor have really any inside out passing (occasionally MaliQ) to spot open perimeter shooters.

 

[RF2044]

This thread didn't age well.

 

[kcsu]

It's actually spot on. Syracuse is a terrible shooting team. We had excellent looks yesterday and couldn't make anything. It didn't matter who shot the ball for us we simply didn't make shots.
Bell
Taylor
JJ
Judah
Cope
Benny
All of them missed great looks.
Teams are packing it in daring us to take wide open shots and we can't make them. We are a flawed team in an area that is hard to overcome against good teams.

 

[SUFan44]

It's actually spot on. Syracuse is a terrible shooting team. We had excellent looks yesterday and couldn't make anything. It didn't matter who shot the ball for us we simply didn't make shots.
Bell
Taylor
JJ
Judah
Cope
Benny
All of them missed great looks.
Teams are packing it in daring us to take wide open shots and we can't make them. We are a flawed team in an area that is hard to overcome against good teams.

We gave up 99 points. You may look at offense being the issue but they couldn’t stop anyone. And a lot of that was effort and communication - which falls quite a bit on the coach. Wake Forest was abusing us all game. It was quite jarring to watch. There is no way that Wake Forest has collectively a +29 team than Syracuse. How does it get to that point? Forbes has won at other places and has a plan. We have no plan. Need better players. Absolutely. But you can’t just say it’s all on the players. 29 points to Wake Forest!

 

[kcsu]

We gave up 99 points. You may look at offense being the issue but they couldn’t stop anyone. And a lot of that was effort and communication - which falls quite a bit on the coach. Wake Forest was abusing us all game. It was quite jarring to watch. There is no way that Wake Forest has collectively a +29 team than Syracuse. How does it get to that point? Forbes has won at other places and has a plan. We have no plan. Need better players. Absolutely. But you can’t just say it’s all on the players. 29 points to Wake Forest!

I agree completely. Yesterday was a total disaster. But Wakes strength is offense. They have a team of shooters and scorers. In order for to have a chance we had to shoot well and hope that they were off.
The worst case scenario happened. We shot as bad as we have all season and they were on fire. That is why we lost by the margin more than any other reason.
We need a center, and forwards. We are playing the game with 4 guards.
Judah, Taylor, JJ, Cope and a Forward Brown at center.
2 forwards that wouldn't start or see much PT for any other ACC team in Benny and Bell.
Out of this entire group the only kid who can actually shoot the ball and take you off the bounce is JJ.
Bell is a streak shooter at best. A kid who shoots lights out in a game of horse but isn't consistent in actual games.
We lack natural shooters. Gerry can work with them till the cows come home but it's very rare that non shooters turn into marksman. You either have it or you dont.
Next year both of the frosh can shoot. We need to add a true center and two more forwards or we are not going to be better.

 

[gmoney44]

We gave up 99 points. You may look at offense being the issue but they couldn’t stop anyone. And a lot of that was effort and communication - which falls quite a bit on the coach. Wake Forest was abusing us all game. It was quite jarring to watch. There is no way that Wake Forest has collectively a +29 team than Syracuse. How does it get to that point? Forbes has won at other places and has a plan. We have no plan. Need better players. Absolutely. But you can’t just say it’s all on the players. 29 points to Wake Forest!

We have issues everywhere on this team. The program is a tire fire and has been for a while.

 

[PhatOrange]

These coaches recruited everyone on the team. Everything wrong falls squarely on the staff. From talent to scheme to execution. Everything.

 

[RF2044]

These coaches recruited everyone on the team. Everything wrong falls squarely on the staff. From talent to scheme to execution. Everything.

I think we need a shakeup amongst the ACs.

Having an all-Syracuse staff is a nice story* but this group collectively isn't optimal. That would be a good place to start.




* Outside of Straughn, who comes from TTO, and doesn't have former ties to our program.

 

[Millhouse]

We gave up 99 points. You may look at offense being the issue but they couldn’t stop anyone. And a lot of that was effort and communication - which falls quite a bit on the coach. Wake Forest was abusing us all game. It was quite jarring to watch. There is no way that Wake Forest has collectively a +29 team than Syracuse. How does it get to that point? Forbes has won at other places and has a plan. We have no plan. Need better players. Absolutely. But you can’t just say it’s all on the players. 29 points to Wake Forest!

42 in the first half is bad but not unspeakable

28 on offense was worse imo

Our team quits on the head coach all the time

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I agree completely. Yesterday was a total disaster. But Wakes strength is offense. They have a team of shooters and scorers. In order for to have a chance we had to shoot well and hope that they were off.
The worst case scenario happened. We shot as bad as we have all season and they were on fire. That is why we lost by the margin more than any other reason.
We need a center, and forwards. We are playing the game with 4 guards.
Judah, Taylor, JJ, Cope and a Forward Brown at center.
2 forwards that wouldn't start or see much PT for any other ACC team in Benny and Bell.
Out of this entire group the only kid who can actually shoot the ball and take you off the bounce is JJ.
Bell is a streak shooter at best. A kid who shoots lights out in a game of horse but isn't consistent in actual games.
We lack natural shooters. Gerry can work with them till the cows come home but it's very rare that non shooters turn into marksman. You either have it or you dont.
Next year both of the frosh can shoot. We need to add a true center and two more forwards or we are not going to be better.

GMac is a garbage coach. He and Grif need to go. I have no idea what they are doing because they certainly aren’t teaching these kids how to shoot, rebound and pass the ball effectively. They’ve hung around the program far too long. This alumni loyalty BS is dragging the program down.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I think we need a shakeup amongst the ACs.

Having an all-Syracuse staff is a nice story* but this group collectively isn't optimal. That would be a good place to start.




* Outside of Straughn, who comes from TTO, and doesn't have former ties to our program.

Red has to change his staff. He also needs to bring in a seasoned Bench Coach that can provide mentorship.