NBA Playoffs

[Knicks411]

Shaq underachieved. For Duncan to have 5 titles and Shaq to only have 4 is proof enough for me Duncan had a better career.
Duncan is a PF though and Shaq was a C.

Shaq leaving Orlando for LA IMO cost him atleast 1 title. Orlando could have beaten Chicago in 1998 IMO those Bulls were fried. Penny and Shaq wouldn't have been like Kobe and Shaq because Shaq was clearly the more important player while Kobe by 2002 was Shaq's equal. Shaq definitely left potential on the table while Duncan has not. Also, Duncan has to be close to 40 while playing 4 years of college ball. Duncan left money on the table staying in college but he may have saved some wear on his legs playing those fewer game schedules as a young kid. Lebron is going break down earlier than Duncan because he entered the league 4 years younger and has played all these games.

I really think the Duncan PF-C distinction is irrelevant.

The 30 for 30 on the Magic has some interesting insight into Shaq leaving Orlando.

 

[Alsacs]

I really think the Duncan PF-C distinction is irrelevant.

The 30 for 30 on the Magic has some interesting insight into Shaq leaving Orlando.

I haven't seen the Magic one but from what I remember it was 1996 during the Olympics in Atlanta and had strictly to do with Shaq wanting to go to LA for his brand. Not sure if Orlando could have done anything but I haven't seen the 30 for 30 on it so they may have said more.
Jerry West traded Vlade Divac for 2-fold reasons. He wanted Kobe in the draft and he wanted to clear salary cap room for the Lakers.
In the 1996 offseason West signed Shaq as a FA, and drafted Kobe Bryant (via a trade)and Derek Fisher. That was the offseason of the Lakers dynasty. Outside of signing Lebron with the Heat in 2010 it might be the best offseason of alltime.

 

[Knicks411]

I haven't seen the Magic one but from what I remember it was 1996 during the Olympics in Atlanta and had strictly to do with Shaq wanting to go to LA for his brand. Not sure if Orlando could have done anything but I haven't seen the 30 for 30 on it so they may have said more.
Jerry West traded Vlade Divac for 2-fold reasons. He wanted Kobe in the draft and he wanted to clear salary cap room for the Lakers.
In the 1996 offseason West signed Shaq as a FA, and drafted Kobe Bryant (via a trade)and Derek Fisher. That was the offseason of the Lakers dynasty. Outside of signing Lebron with the Heat in 2010 it might be the best offseason of alltime.

If you believe what Shaq said, he wanted to go stay with Orlando, they offered him something like 4/80 or whatever, but it wasn't the full max. Within a day or so of receiving the offer; Zo either signed or was offered the max with miami, over $100 million, and that kind of changed Shaq's way of thinking and it was too late.

I can see the idea of Shaq wanting to be in LA, so I can't say for sure that how it's went down, but that's how he explained it. The idea that Orlando didn't offer Shaq max money as soon as they had the chance to just boggles the mind.

 

[rrlbees]

Isn't Oscar's big problem just that he didn't win a lot? Not knocking him for it, but he didn't win a ring until close to the end of his career and he never even made the finals until the Bucks run

He wasn't on good teams either.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I'm gonna get crazy here ... Warriors come out flat after that grueling 7 game war and never fully recover. Cleveland is rested and ready.

Cavs: 105
Warriors: 103

this is where I am.

Cavs 103-warriors 92

 

[Alsacs]

If you believe what Shaq said, he wanted to go stay with Orlando, they offered him something like 4/80 or whatever, but it wasn't the full max. Within a day or so of receiving the offer; Zo either signed or was offered the max with miami, over $100 million, and that kind of changed Shaq's way of thinking and it was too late.

I can see the idea of Shaq wanting to be in LA, so I can't say for sure that how it's went down, but that's how he explained it. The idea that Orlando didn't offer Shaq max money as soon as they had the chance to just boggles the mind.

If Orlando didn't offer Shaq the max the second negotiations started then they are idiots and I don't blame Shaq for leaving one iota.
Who the hell would they give the max to if they wouldn't to a 25 year old in his prime Shaquille O'Neal coming off back to back 60 wins seasons.
NBA front offices really were full of morons until this new analytical era. No wonder Red Auberach, Jerry West were good GMs they were going up against idiots. If Orlando really offered Shaq 4 yr 80 million then they are morons. Nowadays Shaw would have been a RFA that offseason he likely doesn't leave in this era until the following year if he didn't take Orlando's max offer.

 

[Knicks411]

If Orlando didn't offer Shaq the max the second negotiations started then they are idiots and I don't blame Shaq for leaving one iota.
Who the hell would they give the max to if they wouldn't to a 25 year old in his prime Shaquille O'Neal coming off back to back 60 wins seasons.
NBA front offices really were full of morons until this new analytical era. No wonder Red Auberach, Jerry West were good GMs they were going up against idiots. If Orlando really offered Shaq 4 yr 80 million then they are morons. Nowadays Shaw would have been a RFA that offseason he likely doesn't leave in this era until the following year if he didn't take Orlando's max offer.

Basically the idea seemed to be they wanted to save some money to sign Penny. But it's still incredibly dumb.

In this day and age, there's no way Shaq signs the 1 year tender. Either Orlando gives him the max or some other team throws it at him and Orlando does or doesn't match.

 

[OrangeDW]

If you believe what Shaq said, he wanted to go stay with Orlando, they offered him something like 4/80 or whatever, but it wasn't the full max. Within a day or so of receiving the offer; Zo either signed or was offered the max with miami, over $100 million, and that kind of changed Shaq's way of thinking and it was too late.

I can see the idea of Shaq wanting to be in LA, so I can't say for sure that how it's went down, but that's how he explained it. The idea that Orlando didn't offer Shaq max money as soon as they had the chance to just boggles the mind.

Orlando lowballed him early + the Orlando paper ran a poll where 85% of Magic fans said he's not worth $100 million + Shaq was sensitive + Jerry West was smart + his agent wanted him in LA.

 

[Knicks411]

Orlando lowballed him early + the Orlando paper ran a poll where 85% of Magic fans said he's not worth $100 million + Shaq was sensitive + Jerry West was smart + his agent wanted him in LA.

That's right, I forgot the poll thing!

God how stupid were those fans? Jerry West in general is obviously an incredible GM, but I dont think you have to be too bright to realize you do whatever you can to get Shaq on your team.

 

[OrangeDW]

That's right, I forgot the poll thing!

God how stupid were those fans? Jerry West in general is obviously an incredible GM, but I dont think you have to be too bright to realize you do whatever you can to get Shaq on your team.

Stupid, though I'm guessing there was a bit of a slant to how it was presented. $100 million contracts were a new thing, so there was all the outrage of "how can anyone be worth that?"

Jerry West knew how to negotiate, and he freed up money so they could sign Shaq. Traded Vlade Divac for Kobe that summer too!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Warriors 138
Cavs 6

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Warriors 138
Cavs 6

And the six come from Dahntay Jones in the final 2 minutes.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

And the six come from Dahntay Jones in the final 2 minutes.

Right before he knees Dray Green in the junk seconds before the final buzzer.

 

[Briancuse]

Warriors 138
Cavs 6

Why do you hate the Cavs so much?

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Right before he knees Dray Green in the junk seconds before the final buzzer.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Why do you hate the Cavs so much?

#hatehard

 

[Cusefan0307]

Saw this video today...I'm guessing Lebron never had any idea at the time that he would have to figure out a way how to beat this guy...

 

[kirbivore]

Game 1:

Warriors 108
Cavs 98

Warriors and the under. Got it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Why do you hate the Cavs so much?

To give a full answer:

Gilbert is a terrible owner and an idiot.

The coaching situation is a joke and the way they canned Blatt is shameful.

Kevin Love is one of my least favorite players. Ever. And I wanted to see what a team of Lebron and Wiggins could have become, and instead they picked Love, captain of the great numbers on crap teams all-stars.

Lebron annoys me, on that note. He's a horrible GM and has an awful approach to team building and I just don't want to see his habitual shenanigans validated by winning a championship.

They do stupid things like give Varejao a ludicrous extension that makes no sense because supposedly Lebron loves him and then waive him once the extension barely started.

They way overpaid for Thompson. Because Lebron loves him. Which I don't believe actually, but whatever.

Delladova's the worst kind of player in the NBA and I get sick of people talking about him as if he's good.

Same thing for people pretending that Mozgov, Shumpert, and Jones are good.

I resent the fact that the West is a meat grinder and the East is a cake walk.

They traded away Rak Christmas. Bunch of b*stards.

I'm tired of hearing how Cleveland deserves a championship. You know who deserves a championship? Cities with franchises that do smart things, and don't fall back asswards into multiple #1 picks and a crazy scenario where a marquee free agent leaves them and then comes back.

So, yeah. The Cavs can eat it.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Can I ask a stupid question? Do they not call moving screens in the NBA?

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Can I ask a stupid question? Do they not call moving screens in the NBA?

They legalized 'em, but only in Oregon, California and D.C.

I watch a lotta NBA, they call moving screens all the time. Tough sport to officiate, Refs ain't perfect.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

They legalized 'em, but only in Oregon, California and D.C.

I watch a lotta NBA, they call moving screens all the time. Tough sport to officiate, Refs ain't perfect.

To be clear, I wasn't just talking about the hip bump 'Bron gave a couple minutes ago. All playoffs long I've seen guys essentially just grab guys and push them out of the way while they "set a pick."

 

[NineOneSeven]

Interesting half. It was one of those halves where both teams can say "we are lucky to be down/up...".

Cavs won't win if it's only the big 3. Warriors are playing like I figured they would- not worry about any of those guys specifically beating them and then closing out on the shooters who benefit greatly from the attention and double teams James/Irving gets. Too much 1v1 in that half for cleveland.

I expect those role player guys to make some shots, but on the other side, klay and Steph only have 10 points. That's crazy. GSW tends to get lax, so I fully expect it to happen in this one. If I were Kerr, I never switch off Klay on irving or James and make him guard smith so he doesn't get his 4th.

 

[NineOneSeven]

They legalized 'em, but only in Oregon, California and D.C.

I watch a lotta NBA, they call moving screens all the time. Tough sport to officiate, Refs ain't perfect.

The problem is the game is all pick and rolls, because that exploits mismatches. I sometimes wonder what the game would be like if only off ball screens were allowed.

 

[Alsacs]

Curry/Thompson combined for 10 points and the Warriors are winning by 9 at halftime. This is a classic homecourt role players playing well at home game.
If the Warriors role players play like this at home I can't see Cleveland winning the series.