NC State Postgame Thoughts 2

[Niastri]

It’s his best attribute. People have lost their minds.

“He’s selfish!” (He’s 1 of 1 in getting into the lane and getting fouled. We have benefited from this a lot.)

“He keeps iso’ing” (he’s elite at this, so yeah he should do it less)

C’mon. I wish he was a traditional 20 years ago PG - but he’s he guy we got and we need him to do the stuff he is elite at. (I know, people will say he’s not an elite finisher. You can’t win this way. But asking him to not do the elite stuff so he can do what? Take 3’s?! lol)

I agree, Mintz is elite at penetrating on the isolation and either finishing (he's good) or getting to the line (truly the best in the country).

What he needs to do is recognize when opponents are doubling or triple teaming him to take away the penetration and find the open man. He's not great at this, maybe even below average. He seems to get tunnel vision in the drive. Some guys just don't do a good job finding the open guy on dribble penetration. But he still had four assists!

But Mintz being so good on the isolation forces teams to change their defense. NC State was doing a great job blocking Mintz on the isolation, but between doubling Mintz and face guarding Bell, it let Copeland have a lot of room against a guy he could beat.

That was the game.

 

[Millhouse]

Not really, but ok.

Best shooter ever is below 30% a quarter of the time this year. A quarter of the time he shoots like Ovcina.

 

[Niastri]

He does?

He hit a 3 in like 270 games in a row or something. Not the example to use here.

Steph Curry shot 50.7% from three his last five games.

One of those games was a 2-8 (4-14 overall) clunker. How bad does a game have to be for you not to count him as a good shooter?

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah I don’t agree with the streaky shooter label. His shot usually looks pure. When I think of streaky shooter, I think of Cooney. One day, he looked like he couldn’t miss the next the form was completely different

A thousand wind sprints along the baseline behind screens before spinning around to shoot will do that to you

 

[djcon57]

A thousand wind sprints along the baseline behind screens before spinning around to shoot will do that to you

Yes, getting open is part of shooting.

 

[djcon57]

Steph Curry shot 50.7% from three his last five games.

One of those games was a 2-8 (4-14 overall) clunker. How bad does a game have to be for you not to count him as a good shooter?

Not sure you’ll have to ask the poster who brought up him.

The point they are trying to make is “actually, everyone is a streaky shooter (or no one is)”

So in order to make that point true, they have to suggest making a 3 in 268 straight games isnt consistent with a “streak”. Yep.

 

[Newhouser]

I always thought Buddy was kind of streaky here.

 

[Millhouse]

Yes, getting open is part of shooting.

Some ways are better than others
The best open threes come from forcing help defenders to pick their poison
Catch and shoot streaky all he does is hit wide open shots three point shooters are like system quarterbacks, some people dismiss it, I want more of it

 

[longtimefan]

I agree that Bell can't score in many different ways. But I don't think that is the same thing as saying he's a streak shooter

I don't want Bell trying to be Kobe.

I like offenses that get dunks and open threes

You must absolutely love NBA All-Star games.

 

[SWC75]

Players who primarily shoot threes will almost always be 'streakier' than those who mainly attempt higher percentage shots.

They are basketball's version of home run hitters, who will go 0 for a week and then hit four of them in the next series.

 

[SWC75]

Players who primarily shoot threes will almost always be 'streakier' than those who mainly attempt higher percentage shots.

They will have some shots that hit streakers.

 

[dollarbill44]

Yes, getting open is part of shooting.

But, no one ever seemed to set screens for him. So the poor guy had to create his own openings. It's not so easy to get squared up when you're doing a Billy from Family Circus every offensive set.

 

[Bball44]

With all the issues this team has the griping and hand wringing over Bell who is an elite shooter just scratching at his potential is hilarious. Especially after he had his best shooting performance of the season. Sure he has a lot to work on but he will be a stud college player the next two years either at Syracuse or elsewhere. The most important thing in basketball is putting the ball in the basket and it always will be.

If he becomes a stud player somewhere else, will it hurt more or less than losing Jesse?

 

[djcon57]

But, no one ever seemed to set screens for him. So the poor guy had to create his own openings. It's not so easy to get squared up when you're doing a Billy from Family Circus every offensive set.

Cooney?

He got plenty of screens. Not every "screen" has to be a curl.

 

[jordoo]

If he becomes a stud player somewhere else, will it hurt more or less than losing Jesse?

That would depend on the make up and success of our team over the next two seasons. In retrospect and based on attrition Jesse IMO has been an even bigger loss than I anticipated. If you look at our issues on offense/defense/rebounding he would surely help a ton. Imagine 30 min of Jesse at the 5, 20/10 minutes of Brown at the 4/5!! Its going to be hard to top the loss of Jesse moving forward.

 

[Millhouse]

You must absolutely love NBA All-Star games.

My kids watched it for the first time and they had a great time until I sent them to bed

I know the game is a joke but it's still incredible to see how great the shooting is even when there is literally no defense. Mind bogglingly great shooting

 

[sufan59]

If he becomes a stud player somewhere else, will it hurt more or less than losing Jesse?

Losing Bell would hurt more. There aren’t many players in college basketball that can hit 8 straight threes in the first half of a game even wide open. Opposing coaches game planning for us just got more difficult after Bell’s performance the other night.

 

[CardiacCuse]

It’s his best attribute. People have lost their minds.

“He’s selfish!” (He’s 1 of 1 in getting into the lane and getting fouled. We have benefited from this a lot.)

“He keeps iso’ing” (he’s elite at this, so yeah he should do it less)

C’mon. I wish he was a traditional 20 years ago PG - but he’s he guy we got and we need him to do the stuff he is elite at. (I know, people will say he’s not an elite finisher. You can’t win this way. But asking him to not do the elite stuff so he can do what? Take 3’s?! lol)

i guess the thing that would clarify everything for me is how much of the iso play is coming from the coaches intentions or how much is just the player doing what he wants without the blessing of the staff

i think it is coming from the coaches. which means my criticism of the strategy is directed at the coaches, NOT THE PLAYER.


have to recognize that in certain games it is a losing proposition

like when the refs are calling everything in the home team's favor.

the Orange were LUCKY AF to win this last game!...a game they shouldve won easily.

judah got fouled like 5 times in the second half of nc state game that went uncalled...

vs the better defenses, it generally doesnt work, either...hence the drubbings vs Duke, UVA, Tenn, etc

also, Im not saying NEVER EVER go ISO - but it was the ENTIRE OFFENSE in the 2nd half. as if it is that great of an option! its not!

55 pts in the 1st half with ball movement and variety

32 pts in the 2nd with heavy iso and 4 other players standing around


this isnt the only game where you can say as much.

its like the coaches just decided at halftime..."ok...2nd half guys...we're going iso drives every play to finish these guys off!

Bell- I know you made 8 threes in the first half - but you arent getting any looks in the 2nd - we got the secret weapon - the iso offense by judah...so be ready not to do anything in the 2nd half!!"


its like the only way judah can play is if he ball hogs and drives iso...and that the caches think it is the best option for the team!

it can work sometimes but it should never ever be option 1, 2 and 3 like it was in the 2nd half of the nc state game.

but yeah if he is just cooking his man and unstoppable...of course keep going to that well...


but when he isnt, by all means dont keep beating that dead horse as if doing so will somehow revive the dead!

for me its a clear hangover from the end of the JB era - where he let his guys be the man and go iso...and didnt really have much of an offense - and was one of the reasons I was so looking forward to a new coach...who would actually run plays beyond just let a guy dribble 1 on 5 and try to score for huge chunks of every game.

 

[NorSyr66]

How many air ball put backs by Cope were credited as Judah assists?

No idea whether Q's put backs from Judah air balls were credited as assists but I recall Q putting back at least 2!

 

[IthacaMatt]

No one actually looks to see who has less variance in game to game shooting

"Streak shooter" is just a way to dismiss guys who make a lot of shots

Like it's a bad thing to make shots in a row

He's shot 33% or better 17 times

What is the expectation for a shooter to not be considered a streak shooter?

Well, I don't know, Milly. Don't you think there are some guys who shoot, say low 30s, but have the occasional 15 or 20 point game, versus just "volume shooters"?

 

[IthacaMatt]

My kids watched it for the first time and they had a great time until I sent them to bed

I know the game is a joke but it's still incredible to be how great the shooting is even when there is literally no defense. Mind bogglingly great shooting

Yes, their skills are elite. I'm starting to enjoy NBA games more, too. Especially since the Knicks are starting to put together a good team again.

I got sucked into caring about the Nets that year they first put together Irving, Durant and Harden, and then in the whole season they played a total of about 10 games together, and then they all went crazy during COVID.

But this Knicks team is different. Pieces fit well, and when Randle and OG are both back and fit, this is a conference finals / semifinals kind of team, maybe even better.

 

[billsin01]

I agree, Mintz is elite at penetrating on the isolation and either finishing (he's good) or getting to the line (truly the best in the country).

What he needs to do is recognize when opponents are doubling or triple teaming him to take away the penetration and find the open man. He's not great at this, maybe even below average. He seems to get tunnel vision in the drive. Some guys just don't do a good job finding the open guy on dribble penetration. But he still had four assists!

But Mintz being so good on the isolation forces teams to change their defense. NC State was doing a great job blocking Mintz on the isolation, but between doubling Mintz and face guarding Bell, it let Copeland have a lot of room against a guy he could beat.

That was the game.

Really good analysis here. Agree. I also think it's where the value of sometimes simply moving the ball is underrated. When Mintz gets that tunnel vision a bit and starts probing for a lane to the hoop, it bails teams out a bit. Sometimes simply moving the ball and moving off the ball can open things up even if you have a guy who really excels getting into the lane.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

He does?

He hit a 3 in like 270 games in a row or something. Not the example to use here.

Out of how many attempts. You also proved the point. He had a whole game where he didn’t make a 3. That’s a streak of misses. That lasted the whole game.
Someone did the research

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/listing-stephen-curry-s-5-worst-shooting-games-nba-career

 

[Millhouse]

Yes, their skills are elite. I'm starting to enjoy NBA games more, too. Especially since the Knicks are starting to put together a good team again.

I got sucked into caring about the Nets that year they first put together Irving, Durant and Harden, and then in the whole season they played a total of about 10 games together, and then they all went crazy during COVID.

But this Knicks team is different. Pieces fit well, and when Randle and OG are both back and fit, this is a conference finals / semifinals kind of team, maybe even better.

I love the NBA. Text threads with old friends talking about how it's no defense and bad shooting and selfish and I'm thinking it's the exact opposite

 

[Millhouse]

Cooney?

He got plenty of screens. Not every "screen" has to be a curl.

33.7% for his career
Probably 40+% when he was open with feet set, conservative guess
What does that leave for everything else?
Would've been better of as a catch and shoot

Dumb self indulgent story. My son is a seventh grader. Mod team worked on a play for him where he sprints around two baseline screens, turns, catches, shoots. Me being so positive, I'm like ugh that's not gonna work thinking of Cooney sprinting like he's fleeing a serial killer and how much I hated it. They ran it three times the first couple games, he made two, and the other wasnt open so he just passed back to pg. I then changed my tune and looked forward to it but then point guards only called their own number the rest of the year while the coach looked at his watch. Served me right.