NCAA Attackmen and our own issues?

WoodyUK

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#1
This is a two part question and not a loaded one? This has certainly been the year of the attackman! Most successful teams have been led by these point scorers and leaders! Although not all teams with these players have been successful, does this point to the fact that a team such as Syracuse who have always been known for great players at the position are simply not recruiting the best any longer!

Elite Top Tier Attackmen
Kraus - UVA
Fields - Albany
Sowers - Princeton
Spencer - Loyola
Heningburg - Rutgers
Justin Guterding - Duke
Kelly - UMD
Reeves - Yale
Carraway - Georgetown
Teat - Cornell
O’Keefe - PSU
Walker - DU
Stanwick - JHU
Garnsey - ND

Points Per Game | DI Men's Lacrosse Statistics - NCAA.com

Is this highlighting an issue at Syracuse with recruitment? And is this what we need to be nationally prominent again? Or are we getting the players and they are not being developed correctly!! After all Bomber was a transfer who would have played in this spot this year?
 

OrangeXtreme

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#2
Attack recruiting from the past few years...

Class of 14
Gale Thorpe
Brennen Ferguson

Class of 15
Nate Solomon
Riley O'Sullivan
Brad Voigt
Devin Shewell

Class of 16
Stephen Rehfuss (transfer)
Brendan Bomberry (transfer)
Logan Wisnauskas
Clayton Burt
Matt Gaudet


A lot of swings and misses. Losing Gaudet to Yale hurt.
 
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#3
All of the guys listed above (I'm not very familiar with Carraway, so please correct me if I'm wrong about him) have been very productive NCAA players since their freshman season. So, I don't think it's a development issue as much as a recruiting issue. Specifically, SU hasn't gotten a dodger from X/quarterback-type player in awhile. Will Rehfuss get there? He has 2 more seasons.

I'm not sure how B. Bomberry comes into play here. When he transferred in he was our best inside finisher, so he played right away.

Looking at the recruiting classes that SU had for players graduating in 2014, there isn't much offensive talent there. These guys are the seniors and RS-Jrs this season.

I'm optimistic about next season, partially because Solomon is a senior and Rehfuss is an old junior. They need some guys to work with them. Voigt, Seebold and Cook are the likely candidates, and I'm sure Staats would be a talent upgrade.
 
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#4
I think Wisnauskas is a bigger loss than Gaudet. Gaudet is a pure crease finisher.

Also, Evans was supposed to be THE GUY, but it didn't work out that way. If it did, this conversation might not be taking place.

Does Dordevic get a look at attack in 2020 after Solomon graduates and TD is a junior? I'm sure it depends on Seebold, Cook and Rehfuss.
 

ForCuseSake

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#5
Good topic to discuss and I agree with ohmilax34 that talent has been the issue with a lack of scoring from an attackman.

I would like to see attack recruiting focus on bigger players. We’ve had a run of too many 5’9 guys who aren’t quick or strong enough at the DI level.

Kevin Rice was the last dynamic “small” attackman at SU and he was smart and had a great finisher to play off in Staats.

Many of the attackmen who dominate today are either over 6’ or are insanely quick.
 

laxsummit

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#6
Attack recruiting from the past few years...

Class of 14
Gale Thorpe
Brennen Ferguson

Class of 15
Nate Solomon
Riley O'Sullivan
Brad Voigt
Devin Shewell

Class of 16
Stephen Rehfuss (transfer)
Brendan Bomberry (transfer)
Logan Wisnauskas
Clayton Burt
Matt Gaudet


A lot of swings and misses. Losing Gaudet to Yale hurt.
Agree on Gaudet but choosing IVY understandable. Not to be a broken record but Winaskaus transferring back home really hurt and changed plans . 31-11-42 at Maryland. Bomberry would have lengthened mid rotation. Solomon and Refhuss may not fall in the exclusive group cited but believe they are good and many underrate. Hope Austin Staats is all that he is cranked up to be if he comes. Know he is established in international play and box and supposedly would be a top MLL draftee but I'm dismissive of OCC
 

Whitey23

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#8
Attack recruiting from the past few years...

Class of 14
Gale Thorpe
Brennen Ferguson

Class of 15
Nate Solomon
Riley O'Sullivan
Brad Voigt
Devin Shewell

Class of 16
Stephen Rehfuss (transfer)
Brendan Bomberry (transfer)
Logan Wisnauskas
Clayton Burt
Matt Gaudet


A lot of swings and misses. Losing Gaudet to Yale hurt.
Updating the rest of the recruit's statuses is even more depressing.

Class of 14
Gale Thorpe (RS at Cuse. 3 pts in 7 games for Cuse. 13 pts in 8 gms for Ohio State)
Brennen Ferguson (Enrolled but not on the roster)

Class of 15
Nate Solomon (83 pts in 45 gms)
Riley O'Sullivan (3 pts in 15 gms)
Brad Voigt (29 pts in 40 gms)
Devin Shewell ( 7 pts in 10 games for Cuse. 2 pts in 2 games for Loyola)

Class of 16
Stephen Rehfuss (transfer)
Brendan Bomberry (transfer)
Logan Wisnauskas (RS at Cuse. 43 pts in 16 games for Maryland)
Clayton Burt (Enrolled but not on the roster)
Matt Gaudet ( 74 pts in 32 games for Yale)
 

wvlax

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#9
Attack recruiting from the past few years...

Class of 14
Gale Thorpe
Brennen Ferguson

Class of 15
Nate Solomon
Riley O'Sullivan
Brad Voigt
Devin Shewell

Class of 16
Stephen Rehfuss (transfer)
Brendan Bomberry (transfer)
Logan Wisnauskas
Clayton Burt
Matt Gaudet


A lot of swings and misses. Losing Gaudet to Yale hurt.
In light of these recent misses/disasters (including the 2013 recruiting class) I am very skeptical about recruiting posts that contain phrases like "sure thing" or "very high" including 2018s highly touted class. We really haven't seen a "good" recruiting class come through here in about 9 years or so.
 
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#10
Woody you are spot on! It is extremely hard to win a national championship without an elite attackman. Rehfuss in my opinion will be very close but never elite. He can be shut down by elite defenders. Solomon needs to move into a crease attackman role as he is a good inside finisher. Seebold showed absolutely nothing this year elite attackman historically produce their freshmen year. The answer from me if Staats does not transfer, has to be Curry, Cook, or Berkman. Curry has elite speed, but I don't love taking him off what will be one of the best midfield lines in the country. Jeremy has been very high on Cook and I trust his analysis. I think Cook can be elite but maybe not year one. Maybe we will delve into the transfer market once again. I am a little scared for the future of our Attack. But our Midfield is going to be absolutely unstoppable. The real question is can a team win with elite midfield play and role playing attackman? I don't know but I can't wait to find out.
 

Orangello

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#11
Yes, yes and yes. The recruiting misses and transfers have very clearly hurt this program. But I believe equally importantly is the refusal of this staff to sit upperclassmen in favor of playing better freshman and sophs and to coach these people up over the course of a year. I think the tools are there we are simply not using them. I want to see Seebold, Quinn, Buttermore, O'Sullivan, Cook etc, next year. Staats could be a game changer if he comes here and is used properly.
 

WoodyUK

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#13
Another question I like Solomon I think he has what it take to be a Mikey Powell type leader in offence? but he seems inconsistent, is this because he has the shackles on him or is it just the way he is, he seems to have more in the tank! Is it the case that we play a much more team oriented offence in the modern age and we’d never allow the team to be carried by him or give him the keys to the offence.
 
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#14
Another question I like Solomon I think he has what it take to be a Mikey Powell type leader in offence? but he seems inconsistent, is this because he has the shackles on him or is it just the way he is, he seems to have more in the tank! Is it the case that we play a much more team oriented offence in the modern age and we’d never allow the team to be carried by him or give him the keys to the offence.
I know what you're saying. We've seen Solomon dodge hard into the teeth of the defense and get shots from in front of the goal. Other teams do this. Duke is one that comes to mind. I'd like to see Syracuse do this a little more. Rehfuss NEVER does this. I think he needs to dodge harder to get his own shot, and that will open up more options for passing off his dodge, which is what he wants to do.
 

newmexicuse

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#15
Another question I like Solomon I think he has what it take to be a Mikey Powell type leader in offence? but he seems inconsistent, is this because he has the shackles on him or is it just the way he is, he seems to have more in the tank! Is it the case that we play a much more team oriented offence in the modern age and we’d never allow the team to be carried by him or give him the keys to the offence.
I am a big Solomon fan.

Obviously, he is a small player, so he is dependent upon speed to free himself up. Sometimes the matchup is just not there for him and hence the apparent inconsistency, eg the Cornell game.

One thing about Nate, he seems to like to take shots from in close, which was something this team needed badly; however, when he can't free himself with burst then he needs to adjust better and to take the 10 to 15 foot shot more frequently.

The other thing, is that we lack anybody else to get him the ball if he flashes and gets momentarily open.

i think the most understated weakness on this team was the inability make good passes into the crease. Even the few times a good pass was made, most of our interior guys have relatively slow releases (except for Nate), no Donohues out there that had the strength to hold position, receive a pass, and really snap off a shot. Though Nate has the quick release, he obviously lacked size and strength to hold position.
 

ForCuseSake

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#16
Another question I like Solomon I think he has what it take to be a Mikey Powell type leader in offence? but he seems inconsistent, is this because he has the shackles on him or is it just the way he is, he seems to have more in the tank! Is it the case that we play a much more team oriented offence in the modern age and we’d never allow the team to be carried by him or give him the keys to the offence.
Solomon certainly has Mikey Powell stick skills. I don’t believe he has the same level athleticism. He’s not as quick and shifty as Powell was relative to the level of athlete defending them.

It may be due to fewer large athletic defenders in Powell’s day but I don’t see the same potential for dominance.

Solomon routinely draws the best close defenseman and hasn’t yet demonstrated the ability to go to goal at will in these matchups.

I don’t think he’s hamstrung by the offense because we’ve typically relied on the X attackman to initiate or feed in years past.

He’s done that at times. I attribute his inconsistency to his poor mental approach. I believe it’s the same reason for the dumb penalties he too frequently commits.

Hopefully he matures over the summer and eliminates the foolishness that detracts from his game.
 
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#17
Woody, I love your enthusiasm, but I can't believe we are talking about Mike Powell, one of the best players to ever suit up for Syracuse, and Nate Solomon, who scores in a career, what Mikey would have done in a season. I know they are both smallish players, but Solomon's game seems better suited for someone who is a lot bigger. He doesn't have the speed and certainly doesn't have the vision. I know he is a creative type of player, but I still don't see the comparison. Solomon is a all or nothing/trick or treat type player who has three years now and hasn't show the type of progression that I think a typical Syracuse attackman should show. 37 points in a season to me isn't acceptable for a player who has been given so many opportunities over the years. Unfortunately, I can't see him putting up much better stats next year either. Hope I am wrong.
 
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#18
Solomon certainly has Mikey Powell stick skills. I don’t believe he has the same level athleticism. He’s not as quick and shifty as Powell was relative to the level of athlete defending them.

It may be due to fewer large athletic defenders in Powell’s day but I don’t see the same potential for dominance.

Solomon routinely draws the best close defenseman and hasn’t yet demonstrated the ability to go to goal at will in these matchups.

I don’t think he’s hamstrung by the offense because we’ve typically relied on the X attackman to initiate or feed in years past.

He’s done that at times. I attribute his inconsistency to his poor mental approach. I believe it’s the same reason for the dumb penalties he too frequently commits.

Hopefully he matures over the summer and eliminates the foolishness that detracts from his game.
We are talking about mike powell, orangeman from 2000-2004? Four time first team all-american? That mike powell’s stick skills, speed, quickness and vision are light years beyond Solomon. Like not even close. I am going to step away from this forum for a bit to make sure I am not hallucinating.
 

ForCuseSake

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#19
We are talking about mike powell, orangeman from 2000-2004? Four time first team all-american? That mike powell’s stick skills, speed, quickness and vision are light years beyond Solomon. Like not even close. I am going to step away from this forum for a bit to make sure I am not hallucinating.
Not sure why you quoted my post as I agree that Powell’s athleticism was superior to Solomon and that Solomon hasn’t shown the same ability to dominate.

Stick skills are harder to compare with equipment changes over 14 years. I don’t know how much better Powell would be using the pinched and offset heads in today’s game.

Mike Powell is probably the most dynamic offensive player to play at SU.

Comparing a current player to that standard is what happens after first round losses.
 

laxsummit

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#20
I am a big Solomon fan.

Obviously, he is a small player, so he is dependent upon speed to free himself up. Sometimes the matchup is just not there for him and hence the apparent inconsistency, eg the Cornell game.

One thing about Nate, he seems to like to take shots from in close, which was something this team needed badly; however, when he can't free himself with burst then he needs to adjust better and to take the 10 to 15 foot shot more frequently.

The other thing, is that we lack anybody else to get him the ball if he flashes and gets momentarily open.

i think the most understated weakness on this team was the inability make good passes into the crease. Even the few times a good pass was made, most of our interior guys have relatively slow releases (except for Nate), no Donohues out there that had the strength to hold position, receive a pass, and really snap off a shot. Though Nate has the quick release, he obviously lacked size and strength to hold position.
Salient and constructive comments in this thread. We have the individual pieces in place on both sides, just about optimizing and realizing its full potential.

Excited about our young mids but they all could further develop further as passers especially to the inside. Enhanced passings skills were evident with some of the Cornell mids which made their attack more potent.

Not to overstate but B Bomberry was our leading scorer and it will be critical that we find the right replacement who best complements the abilities of Solomon and Refhuss. Always easier said than done.

The offensive capabilities are there as we average 11.21 goals per vs a schedule that offered few softies to boost stats, 6/10th of a goal better average would have put us in NCAA top ten team scoring averages.

I think the offensive lulls seen at times had more to do with personnel line changes and mixing at times and those lines having to adjust to opponent d adjustments. There were stretches of shorter possessions partly due to unforced turnovers which may have been due to coordination and focus from inconsistent usage of some.

I suspect that our offensive efficiency at middy will improve in 2019 with greater experience and familiarity.
 
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#21
Not sure why you quoted my post as I agree that Powell’s athleticism was superior to Solomon and that Solomon hasn’t shown the same ability to dominate.

Stick skills are harder to compare with equipment changes over 14 years. I don’t know how much better Powell would be using the pinched and offset heads in today’s game.

Mike Powell is probably the most dynamic offensive player to play at SU.

Comparing a current player to that standard is what happens after first round losses.
The only current player that comes close to reminding me of Powell is Michael Sowers at Princeton with his quickness, shiftiness, and vision. And to some degree Loyola’s Pat Spencer. But as far as athletic prowess, Mikey was on another level. His change of direction and ability to toy with his defender was amazing to watch. “He was an athletic freak…” as Quint K. described him.

Definitely a once in a generation type player.
 

WoodyUK

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#22
I’m never going to compare Solomon with reaching the heights that Mike did! I do t think anyone could he elevated the game, beat anyone however aggressive or size and did it with the pressure of his two brothers coming before him.

What I was trying to say was Solomon could do more and consistently beat his man and create his own shot, back in the day Syracuse seemed happy to jump on the back of this type of player! Nowadays it seems like we like the get everyone involved more, pick your poison I guess but are we limiting ourselves!
 
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#24
Stick skills are harder to compare with equipment changes over 14 years. I don’t know how much better Powell would be using the pinched and offset heads in today’s game.
Mike Powell used a Brine Edge his freshman season in 2001. It's offset but not pinched. His sophomore and junior seasons he used a Warrior head that is offset and quite pinched. His senior season he used a different offset and pinched head. This was when companies could make heads that were so pinched at the bottom that the ball could almost
stuck in the plastic. That is not allowed any more.

I'm pretty sure this is from 2003.

 

ForCuseSake

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#25
Mike Powell used a Brine Edge his freshman season in 2001. It's offset but not pinched. His sophomore and junior seasons he used a Warrior head that is offset and quite pinched. His senior season he used a different offset and pinched head. This was when companies could make heads that were so pinched at the bottom that the ball could almost
stuck in the plastic. That is not allowed any more.

I'm pretty sure this is from 2003.

Thanks for the info!

I also appreciate the pic of the traditional uniform.
 


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