NCAA files suit

[shu 49]

Because they are getting about 1500 a week at 40 hrs of time in free Ed and food and board

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Because they are getting about 1500 a week at 40 hrs of time in free Ed and food and board

And the latest TV contracts for the SEC and Big 10 suggest they're worth far more than that.

If your store sees a huge influx in business because of the efforts and skill of your employees, they'd all quit if you kept the resulting profits for yourself. The same ecosystem of at-will employment does not exist in college football, hence these ever increasing battles.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Is it safe to assume most athletes spend LESS time on academics than other students? Most students don’t have the tutors and academic counselors and support staff that players have.

Funny I actually did better in season when I played in college. Off season in the spring was a complete booze fest

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

And the latest TV contracts for the SEC and Big 10 suggest they're worth far more than that.

If your store sees a huge influx in business because of the efforts and skill of your employees, they'd all quit if you kept the resulting profits for yourself. The same ecosystem of at-will employment does not exist in college football, hence these ever increasing battles.

If SEC/B1G schools want to grovel at the FB alter, spend ungodly amounts of TV/booster money, that's their choice. It all goes back into the institutions by law - lots of money but no profit. Yes, some schools are more responsible than others about using athletic revenue to support academics or T-IX sports. But none of that makes student-athletes employees. The whole system, including its popularity and its bedrock anti-trust exemption, rests on amateurism despite the deepening corruption with <1% of the top student athletes.

And your last point is wrong also. I wouldn't respond (it's off-thread), but you keep posting this stuff ad nauseum. Maybe you haven't been paying attention while industries across the economy are sucking up worker productivity while simultaneously depressing wages. I haven't seen any mass exoduses from the energy industry, telehealth, home fitness, the tech industry, etc. All have been cashing in while wages lag. And it's not a new trend.

The Productivity–Pay Gap

The huge gap between rising incomes at the top and stagnating pay for the rest of us shows that workers are no longer benefiting from their rising productivity. Before 1979, worker pay and productivity grew in tandem. But since 1979, productivity has grown eight times faster than typical worker...

www.epi.org

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

And your last point is wrong also. I wouldn't respond (it's off-thread), but you keep posting this stuff ad nauseum. Maybe you haven't been paying attention while industries across the economy are sucking up worker productivity while simultaneously depressing wages. I don't see any mass exodus from the energy industry, or from telehealth, or home fitness, or the tech industry. All have been cashing in on COVID while wages lag.

Bro, I'm aware. I think it's pretty obvious that I'm pro-labor.

 

[MikeSU02]

Oh come on. Everyone sidesteps that rule with ease, as it only refers to official team activity. "Voluntary" workouts, time in the training room, and individual film study all get put in off the "official" clock.

Both my best friends from home were D1 athletes (not at Cuse).

The cap on hours and the way it at least *was* written/enforced was basically a joke in terms of expectations for the commitment outside those formalized hours.

I could name a number of examples, but I also had a friend that was a walk on at Syracuse for a non revenue sport and the commitment she had to make to the sport was insane... as a walk on... on a non revenue sport.

 

[upperdeck]

Both my best friends from home were D1 athletes (not at Cuse).

The cap on hours and the way it at least *was* written/enforced was basically a joke in terms of expectations for the commitment outside those formalized hours.

I could name a number of examples, but I also had a friend that was a walk on at Syracuse for a non revenue sport and the commitment she had to make to the sport was insane... as a walk on... on a non revenue sport.

I talk to kids playing D1 all the time. Just how much time do we thing the fball kids are putting right now during a week.. You cant lift 4 hrs a day.

In season it can be a grind but you have maybe 10-15 hrs a week in class, How much on avg do we think they spend on school work? 5-10 Hrs depending on the major maybe more. Still leaves a ton of free time .

I remember school. go to class. . go to the gym 1-2 hrs during the day in between. go play ball 1-2 hrs after dinner. thats like 30 hrs a week in time even if not at the extreme D1 level of effort. Still had to kill 40hrs of free time.

 

[mscanlo]

I could name a number of examples, but I also had a friend that was a walk on at Syracuse for a non revenue sport and the commitment she had to make to the sport was insane... as a walk on... on a non revenue sport.

there are plenty of people a lot smarter than me working on this case, and my brain is quite foggy from lack of sleep, but seems like focusing on walk-ons would be a good argument for the schools/NCAA (i.e. "there is an influx of people not on scholarship nor receive any compensation, who are willing to play on these teams")

 

[MikeSU02]

there are plenty of people a lot smarter than me working on this case, and my brain is quite foggy from lack of sleep, but seems like focusing on walk-ons would be a good argument for the school (i.e. "there is an influx of people not on scholarship nor receive any compensation, who are willing to play on these teams")

Yeah, I won't wade into the payment / legal stuff. I'm not a lawyer, this is super complex, it's not my specialty.

My issue with the NCAA is that they've had decades to do something about this and never have, at least not meaningfully, and it really stinks.

Ah well.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

there are plenty of people a lot smarter than me working on this case, and my brain is quite foggy from lack of sleep, but seems like focusing on walk-ons would be a good argument for the school (i.e. "there is an influx of people not on scholarship nor receive any compensation, who are willing to play on these teams")

That's fair and good, but then how does the NCAA explain in if asked in court how Georgia football spending $4 million in one year on recruiting logistics and travel? Because it's obvious that this is more than just "everyone is just here to play."

 

[mscanlo]

That's fair and good, but then how does the NCAA explain in if asked in court how Georgia football spending $4 million in one year on recruiting logistics and travel? Because it's obvious that this is more than just "everyone is just here to play."

"we spend $4M to scour the US to find the best people willing to play" --- kidding

two thoughts to came to mind just now... probably a little weak:

I believe less than 20 athletic programs are currently profitable, so how can you force all of schools to pay their athletes?

in regards to amateurism:

i believe the little league organization made $50M in revenue last year, and their TV contract with ESPN appears to continue to grow. Do we want to pay kids 12 and under?

Little League has invested in facilities (like college programs do) and "gives back to programs" (like money goes back to schools, from athletic programs that have large profits). it's just not on the scale of college athletics, so no one bats an eye.

What is the Scripps National Spelling Bee turns into a Billion dollar business one day? What do we do we do? Force Scripps to pay the participants who willingly participate? (that one might not apply as i dont know if you need to be an amateur to participate in the Scripps Spelling Bee)

what's the threshold an organization has to hit (whether in revenue or some other metric) before they have to pay the people that they generate revenue off of?

 

[Scooch]

They should put a cap on revenue for all schools. Any money schools get above that amount from TV revenues should go into a pool to be divided amongst all schools. Money then could be used for players, etc. It would end the conference jumping and keep some kind of balance among schools.

SOCIALISM. a.k.a. the NFL. Seriously if the bastion of amateurism that is college sports was run like a pro league it'd be farrrr more fair. But no one wants that.

I’m not angry at the players at all. Just the system. Maybe college kids don’t need to spend 40 hours per week on athletics.

Maybe they don't. And maybe we don't need high-stakes, Division 1 athletics. I'm pretty sure no other country in the world has outsourced the highest developmental level of it's most popular sport to academic institutions. It's pretty freakin' weird, really.

 

[Bayside44]

Don't be mad at student-athletes when it was the conferences and administrators that got the big media rights deals and reaped 100% of the rewards.

Facilities, medical, living, dining, travel, etc etc goes to the student-athlete.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They should eliminate Athletic Scholarships. Make them work their way through school.

It’s that we give kids enough already in my opinion.

 

[cusefan88]

Facilities, medical, living, dining, travel, etc etc goes to the student-athlete.

I agree but the $$$ coming in has far surpassed that being acceptable for players. Just my own opinion.

 

[upperdeck]

I agree but the $$$ coming in has far surpassed that being acceptable for players. Just my own opinion.

the money is coming in for a few sports. But the courts have ruled you need somewhat equal benefits. If they start to pay will it need to be equal ? are we gonna have 100 fball players and then 100 women playing sports and thats it

 

[mscanlo]

if the star athletes are such a driving force to the revenue generation (compared to the brand of the school or brand of the NCAA as a whole), why isn't the G-League, Minor Leagues, or other comparable leagues an instant success? the concentration of athletes in those leagues are more talented than those athletes in the NCAA

maybe the NCAA get the professional leagues to all agree to let athletes in at any age, instead of forcing them to go and stay in the NCAA?

then again, despite making more than most people can dream of (especially in a short period), an absurd number of professional athletes go bankrupt when compared to the general public, and most people don't care.

maybe playing for a scholarship/education is a better answer for most after all?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

They should put a cap on revenue for all schools. Any money schools get above that amount from TV revenues should go into a pool to be divided amongst all schools. Money then could be used for players, etc. It would end the conference jumping and keep some kind of balance among schools.

Well, that’s certainly a novel approach. Centralized governance of finances. How could that ever go wrong?

 

[djcon57]

an absurd number of professional athletes go bankrupt when compared to the general public, and most people don't care.

Why would we care? I don't care what you make. I assume you don't care what I make.

The whole counting other people's money portion of this debate is always, by far, the oddest part of it. The tax calculations, etc. Very odd.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

if the star athletes are such a driving force to the revenue generation (compared to the brand of the school or brand of the NCAA as a whole), why isn't the G-League, Minor Leagues, or other comparable leagues an instant success? the concentration of athletes in those leagues are more talented than those athletes in the NCAA

maybe the NCAA get the professional leagues to all agree to let athletes in at any age, instead of forcing them to go and stay in the NCAA?

then again, despite making more than most people can dream of (especially in a short period), an absurd number of professional athletes go bankrupt when compared to the general public, and most people don't care.

so in a way, maybe playing for a scholarship/education is a better answer for most after all?

How old is the G league? How old is college sports? Not a great comparison.
“Educated” people go bankrupt all the time. “Uneducated” people amass fortunes. A college degree has nothing to do with it.

Lincoln, McGovern, John Connolly, Henry Ford, Walt Disney, Larry King, and other notables, many of whom were highly educated, went bankrupt.
Bankruptcy is not an end, it’s a re-set.

College degrees are becoming less and less valuable with technology and the vast amount of information available for free. The idea that you need to go to college to be successful is antiquated. If you want to be in a profession, then yes, but even that will probably change. Why shouldn’t someone be able to intern, or apprentice, then pass a competency exam.

Why do doctors have to go to undergraduate school? I really don’t care if my doctor took English Literature so she could be more well rounded. I care if she can fix me.

Why should anyone care if someone outside their family/friends goes bankrupt? It doesn’t impact you.

 

[javadoc]

Discuss

NCAA asks US appeals court to block pay for student-athletes

The NCAA is asking a federal appeals court to reject a legal effort to make colleges pay Division I athletes an hourly wage.

apnews.com

I looked through the article quickly and a link or two but don’t see the complaint. Does anyone have a link to the actual filing? I’d like to read the argument.

 

[mscanlo]

Why would we care? I don't care what you make. I assume you don't care what I make.

The whole counting other people's money portion of this debate is always, by far, the oddest part of it. The tax calculations, etc. Very odd.

maybe it's not an applicable argument, but the one of the original arguments for paying the student-athletes was to provide them their their fair share of revenue to make their life better. my point was, does it necessarily make their life better

 

[mscanlo]

How old is the G league? How old is college sports? Not a great comparison.
“Educated” people go bankrupt all the time. “Uneducated” people amass fortunes. A college degree has nothing to do with it.

Lincoln, McGovern, John Connolly, Henry Ford, Walt Disney, Larry King, and other notables, many of whom were highly educated, went bankrupt.
Bankruptcy is not an end, it’s a re-set.

College degrees are becoming less and less valuable with technology and the vast amount of information available for free. The idea that you need to go to college to be successful is antiquated. If you want to be in a profession, then yes, but even that will probably change. Why shouldn’t someone be able to intern, or apprentice, then pass a competency exam.

Why do doctors have to go to undergraduate school? I really don’t care if my doctor took English Literature so she could be more well rounded. I care if she can fix me.

Why should anyone care if someone outside their family/friends goes bankrupt? It doesn’t impact you.

What about the Minor Leagues? That's been around for a very long time

I should've used broke, not bankrupt.

I'm not necessarily for or against paying NCAA athletes. I probably lean more against. I generally just like to navigate things slowly, and understand the full ramifications. The Olympics organization has some quasi amateur/professional model, and it doesn't really bother me athletes can secure sponsorships, nor get paid, i'll still watch

Granted, to people's point, the NCAA "navigated this too slowly" (i.e. did nothing with the topic for years) and here we are.

 

[djcon57]

maybe it's not an applicable argument, but the one of the original arguments for paying the student-athletes was to provide them their their fair share of revenue to make their life better. my point was, does it necessarily make their life better

No, I got it. My point is it's irrelevant to the argument.

They could burn the money they earn in a pile afterward and it was still earned.

 

[Scooch]

Well, that’s certainly a novel approach. Centralized governance of finances. How could that ever go wrong?

I mean, centralized control is basically the model for every U.S. pro league.

This was always cracks me up because you'd have to search pretty long to find something more socialized than the NFL. Hard salary cap, equally shared revenue, public funding for venues, etc.