NCSU 'chunk' plays

[Millhouse]

I agree, I just don't think anything was "skewed". According the plays Swish posted to start the thread, we gave up 17 plays of 9 yards or more. 38% of all snaps.

I think that just reveals who we are... a bad defensive team.

I thank the lunatics in Columbus for Kyle McCord.

I didn't know how bad that really is. Ten yard plays happen a lot

Ignore the 75 and 72 yard play (just for the sake of this, I know big plays count) and it's right in line with the rest of the season at 6.1 yards per play

We are 103rd in the country in ypp defense, they do stink

But we have the QB and we throw and that's good enough

And OSU fans are the worst

 

[swish7]

You can't count a 29 yrd FG is a chunk play.

Fine.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think the defense is good enough for us to win most games.

I'm worried about how we'll do against Holstein and Ward. But those guys are having good games regardless of the defensive look.

The thing I don't get is that we seem content on offense to do some dink and dunk, yet that seems to be what our defense encourages. Usually you would think whatever it is you want to do on offense would be different from what your defense encourages the opponents offense to take.

 

[Scooch]

I think the defense is good enough for us to win most games.

I'm worried about how we'll do against Holstein and Ward. But those guys are having good games regardless of the defensive look.

The thing I don't get is that we seem content on offense to do some dink and dunk, yet that seems to be what our defense encourages. Usually you would think whatever it is you want to do on offense would be different from what your defense encourages the opponents offense to take.

Seems like controlling the clock on O is a purposeful strategy at this point. We can’t lose ToP with our D, we’ll get eaten alive if we don’t force turnovers. So gotta limit their snaps while maximizing ours.

 

[007]

Seems like controlling the clock on O is a purposeful strategy at this point. We can’t lose ToP with our D, we’ll get eaten alive if we don’t force turnovers. So gotta limit their snaps while maximizing ours.

Yup. "Complementary" football - the staff understands that the D is not good. The O has proven that they can sustain long drives, move the ball via the passing game, control the TOP, and score enough to beat most teams that are not above average on O.

There is no doubt, IMO, that controlling the clock is not only a "purposeful strategy" but a major part of the overall game plan. That strategy also dictates how we play on D. Bend don't break, drop into coverage, "force" teams to sustain long drives to score. Without a really good QB, most college teams struggle to sustain drives consistently and that is amplified when you limit the number of possessions.

This overall game plan leverages the advantage we have with McCord. He is the difference maker.

 

[Scooch]

Yup. "Complementary" football - the staff understands that the D is not good. The O has proven that they can sustain long drives, move the ball via the passing game, control the TOP, and score enough to beat most teams that are not above average on O.

There is no doubt, IMO, that controlling the clock is not only a "purposeful strategy" but a major part of the overall game plan. That strategy also dictates how we play on D. Bend don't break, drop into coverage, "force" teams to sustain long drives to score. Without a really good QB, most college teams struggle to sustain drives consistently and that is amplified when you limit the number of possessions.

This overall game plan leverages the advantage we have with McCord. He is the difference maker.

Agree. Seems like it all comes down to whether or not the D can force 2-3 punts and/or force ~2 turnovers each game. If we do, we have a great chance to win. If not…

 

[newmexicuse]

The problem is a lack of speed in the secondary, so that whenever a runner or receiver breaks free past the LOS, there is a possibility of a chunk play. Cant teach speed. Maybe we get faster next year.

 

[DomeHolmes]

True.

But how many times yesterday did NC State have a deep ball opportunity they didn’t convert on? The first ball to that hit the WR in the hands, the seam shot that was over Conception’s head. How many times did the announcers point out a deep shot that the kid missed a read on?

our defense did a lot well, but if we replace the two busted 70 yard plays for two on time system deep balls earlier in the game that were there and our opponents missed, we are having a very different discussion today.

D player well, but still has missed assignments and gaffes that sooner or later someone is gonna make us pay for. Gotta get that cleaned up in the bye week

This is all true. If McCord was their quarterback, they have 2 or 3 50+ yard touchdowns in the first half. You could see all the way back to the touchdowns against holy Cross that our safeties (who play extremely deep to begin with) are still getting blown by.

it seems to me Grant, Cinco, and deuce are all “run first safeties” and thus not disciplined enough in the passing game.

Its as if they’re not capable of backpedaling. It seems they want to play at a certain depth and that is it.

Fran mentioned in his press conference that we can’t have two deep safeties getting blown by, yet it continues to happen. Sounds like we’ve tried to address it already.

earlier in the year when Gould was playing, It was bad, but he has not played much since Holy Cross. Deuce not much better. Even Cinco often guilty.

 

[007]

The problem is a lack of speed in the secondary, so that whenever a runner or receiver breaks free past the LOS, there is a possibility of a chunk play. Cant teach speed. Maybe we get faster next year.

Team speed on D overall is part of the issue. But it's not just limited to the DBs.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

17 points 400 yards 3 turnovers
Maybe the turnovers are available little luck but I'm college football, that's a pretty good day

I’m not sure many people who post and dream of lockdown defenses watch a lot of college football. The LSU/ Ole Miss game and the Oregon/ OSU games last night are prime examples Some of the best teams in college football and there’s just not a ton of great defense anymore, they’ve made it difficult in many ways anyway to be a great defense. they gave up 17 points, should be good enough To win most games

 

[Millhouse]

I’m not sure many people who post and dream of lockdown defenses watch a lot of college football. The LSU/ Ole Miss game and the Oregon/ OSU games last night are prime examples Some of the best teams in college football and there’s just not a ton of great defense anymore, they’ve made it difficult in many ways anyway to be a great defense

They watch Syracuse, the NFC East, and rotisserie infomercials

 

[richmondcuse03]

The problem is a lack of speed in the secondary, so that whenever a runner or receiver breaks free past the LOS, there is a possibility of a chunk play. Cant teach speed. Maybe we get faster next year.

bingo. we also lost our true freshman corner who I contend is our best coverage guy. We need more recruits like that. Combine that with no depth on defensive line and losing our best LB, we've been treading water.

Our strength is our O and the d just has to be adequate, especially with the injuries. Getting Barnes back, along with Wax, will make a huge difference. Wax is our best blitzing linebacker and having a true cover corner will be a big addition again...

 

[HRE Otto IV]

This is by far our worst D since 2019. It is actually shocking that we have given up so many yards but not a lot of points. We do nothing well. Can't stop the run. Can't rush the QB. Can't cover. Can't tackle (really pathetic here).

Some of that is talent. We don't have much on that side of the ball. McDonald despite the great play last game IMO is a liability. But IMO some of this is also coaching.

The Os that we have played thus far haven't been all that great. None of the three ACC teams we have played are in the top half in scoring. VA Tech, BC, Cal, and UConn aren't good either which will help. Pitt will really be our first true test on D. And Miami could be ugly. I might sign up right now for 40 points conceded vs letting things play out.

 

[DomeHolmes]

The problem is a lack of speed in the secondary, so that whenever a runner or receiver breaks free past the LOS, there is a possibility of a chunk play. Cant teach speed. Maybe we get faster next year.

Of the things I see wrong with this defense, two can be corrected, two can’t.

As you said,Speed cannot be corrected, and bad tackling cannot be corrected. I’ve seen enough to know that too many guys are not good at it.

I do think the three man, rush and lack of creativity in any type of stunt or twist on defense, or blitzing, can be corrected.

and I think our safeties playing at the proper depth should be able to be corrected, but I’m losing faith in that.

 

[swish7]

Of the things I see wrong with this defense, two can be corrected, two can’t.

As you said,Speed cannot be corrected, and bad tackling cannot be corrected. I’ve seen enough to know that too many guys are not good at it.

I do think the three man, rush and lack of creativity in any type of stunt or twist on defense, or blitzing, can be corrected.

and I think our safeties playing at the proper depth should be able to be corrected, but I’m losing faith in that.

Tackling can be corrected. It's fundamentally a pursuit & technique issue. Sure, it's easier with 'talent', but our tackling can one hundred percent get better.

 

[DomeHolmes]

Tackling can be corrected. It's fundamentally a pursuit & technique issue. Sure, it's easier with 'talent', but our tackling can one hundred percent get better.

Yes, theoretically tackling can be corrected, but our problems are mostly with seniors, not freshmen. If it has not been fixed by now, it probably won’t be, (and that will not be from the coaches lack of trying). Unlearning 10 years of bad form likely wont get fixed here in 6 weeks.

I should have prefaced by saying tackling “should be” correctable.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I’m fine with the D, overall.

We need Wax and Barnes back. Clear as day.

McDonald had an awful game.

the long pass was a calculated risk that shouldn’t have counted. The big run play was awful.

McDonald did create a forced fumble by NCSt.

 

[newmexicuse]

Lets get some perspective here - we only gave up 17 points to a potentially explosive O. For all of our foibles, we excelled at takeaways in this game.

Yeah, we certainly dont have the athleticism on D of most of the Top 20 teams, but all in all I give kudos to our guys and to our staff for the end result.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

I’m fine with the D, overall.

We need Wax and Barnes back. Clear as day.

McDonald had an awful game.

the long pass was a calculated risk that shouldn’t have counted. The big run play was awful.

Agree. It's not the underneath pass plays - you give those up once you commit to the zone to contain a mobile QB. It's the chunk plays - including some deep shots that didn't connect. We can chalk up the Rogers run to a great scramble read by Bailey (Rogers was barely touched on the shoulder pad not "forced out"). But there was no excuse for Smothers getting loose from Cinco and juking half our secondary on the way to a 75 yard gain that would also have been a TD had Lewis not caught him on a good angle. This has been a problem all year with speed guys, and we ducked another bullet when Grimes (4-star 4.42 laser) waltzed by Duce and a corner for what would have been another 50+ yard TD without a lucky overthrow. So as you point out, we need Barnes and Wax back asap - at least as a tourniquet. I'd also leave Barron right where he is at OLB (he's killing it). Interesting to see what happens with McDonald when Wax comes back. On the + side I thought our OL, despite a lot of blitzing, gave KM enough time for short routes and our talented core of receivers cashed in. But more to the point of your post, despite the problems with our safeties and LB's not named Barron, it was a relief to see us turn them over. And the DL backups were able to get penetration and stand up a very experienced NCSt OL.

 

[Day2]

The only thing that amazes me about the defense is that we will rush only 3 and have 8 in coverage and other teams constantly have people running wide open. There zone looks awful people dropping wrong depths. People not carrying players to the next zone. People biting on pump fakes. People always out of position. If you are dropping 8 there should never be someone beat you deep.

I don’t know if the coaches can’t coach this scheme or the players can’t play this scheme.

I’d say the latter. This is a personnel issue more than anything else. I’m going to start giving ERob the benefit of the doubt, because the talent will get better. If these issues persist in a year or two, then I’ll point the finger at the DC.

We’ll be fine if we keep forcing turnovers, which is part of the scheme. The defense would be pretty good if we could tackle.

 

[IthacaMatt]

What defines a chunk play? Is there a set number or are you labeling a 6 yard pass as a chunk play?

Yeah, I thought it was 15-20 yards.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is by far our worst D since 2019. It is actually shocking that we have given up so many yards but not a lot of points. We do nothing well. Can't stop the run. Can't rush the QB. Can't cover. Can't tackle (really pathetic here).

Some of that is talent. We don't have much on that side of the ball. McDonald despite the great play last game IMO is a liability. But IMO some of this is also coaching.

Yeah, I kind of disagree. There are breakdowns, but given the number of guys we are missing, especially in the heart of the defense, I think we played pretty well these past couple games.

In the past, if you told me we were without our 2 starting DTs, our starting MLB and our best DB, I would say a team like NC State or Georgia Tech would have run for 300 yards against us, flipped the time of possession, and beaten us by 3 scores.

I think the defense has been getting better these last couple weeks, especially when you consider that we just won our first 2 road games of the year, back-to-back, against talented competition.

These coaches are all new, too, and I think they're getting better. We are 5-1, two Top 25 wins, 2 road wins, 2-1 in the ACC. Very good start, objectively speaking.

 

[Jake]

I’m fine with the D, overall.

We need Wax and Barnes back. Clear as day.

McDonald had an awful game.

the long pass was a calculated risk that shouldn’t have counted. The big run play was awful.

McDonald graded out as second best player on D besides Barron. But agreed he was awful…but you know…analytics.

 

[swish7]

Yeah, I thought it was 15-20 yards.

everyone can have their own definition. 6ish is mine, but used 5 here. 15-20 yards is a bust

 

[NJCuse97]

it seems to me Grant, Cinco, and deuce are all “run first safeties” and thus not disciplined enough in the passing game.

Its as if they’re not capable of backpedaling. It seems they want to play at a certain depth and that is it.

Cinco may be best, but I agree that they seem to cover their lack of speed or coverage skills by starting too deep, then either not making an effort, as I saw a few times with Grant in particular a couple times, or coming too late and too fast to break someone down and make an open field tackle.