ND considering full conference membership (?) Link

[cuseguy]

NBC will resign Notre Dame...and they'll resign them to a HUGE contract.

With networks drooling over live sporting events, why would they want to give up the biggest name in college athletics? I could totally see ND getting a contract in the neighborhood of $35M per year from NBC.

Ratings dip every week for ND on NBC.

 

[TexanMark]

I could see a conference, even the ACC altho they say otherwise, making an agreement with ND that they are all sports except football until their NBC contract expires in 2015.

That's what I'm thinking too...ESPN would overpay to get control back of Notre Dame.

 

[Stern]

Today yes. Tomorrow not so much. So what bowl tie ins will ND have if the BE no longer has football tomorrow?

ND will always find a bowl to take them. No worries.

The bowl tie-ins in the Big East suck anyway lets be honest.

 

[Stern]

Notre Dame is a strong fit with the Catholic schools in the Big East. They'd also be a strong fit in terms of tradition / geographic proximity / rivalries with the schools in the Big 10.

I'm not sure that they'd have either in the ACC.

ND has already said they won't go to the Big 10 because it makes them a "regional" school in the midwest. And they are a HORRIBLE fit for the Big 10 and they realize that. ND likes the ACC because it expands their foot-print across the country and they feel the ACC schools are on their level as a whole (olympic sports) with the rest of the ND sports programs.

 

[sutomcat]

ND will always find a bowl to take them. No worries.

The bowl tie-ins in the Big East suck anyway lets be honest.

The bowls all have tie ins with conferences to fill their slots. They can't ignore their contract and bring in Notre Dame whenever they want.

If ND loses the bowl tie in deal with the Big East, they can go to a BCS bowl (almost impossible for them, they are not a top program) or hope a conference is unable to fill a bowl slot, allowing them to pick an at large team. If slots remain, they will be the least attractive ones out there.

It is a huge issue for them.

 

[Stern]

The bowls all have tie ins with conferences to fill their slots. They can't ignore their contract and bring in Notre Dame whenever they want.

If ND loses the bowl tie in deal with the Big East, they can go to a BCS bowl (almost impossible for them, they are not a top program) or hope a conference is unable to fill a bowl slot, allowing them to pick an at large team. If slots remain, they will be the least attractive ones out there.

It is a huge issue for them.

And most years there aren't enough bowl eligible teams to fill all the spots. Plus if the bowls know ND is going to be a free agent, they will adjust their contracts quickly. Those big east bowl tie ins are all about to become open game and available. It will work out for ND. ND isn't going to join a conference because of fear of not getting a bowl game.

 

[rrlbees]

ND will always find a bowl to take them. No worries.

The bowl tie-ins in the Big East suck anyway lets be honest.

I asked this before and the answer seemed to be no, but are there any bowls whose match-up is TBD as in they can take a wild-card. I thought every bowl has a tie in to the conferences, except the BCS bowls. With the exception of the BCS, ND gets into bowls via their bowl "relationship" with the BE.

 

[Stern]

^^ but some of these conferences like the ACC have 9 bowl tie ins knowing that in only a fluke year will they send 9 teams to a bowl. The Big 12 has 8 tieins, they aren't sending 8 except in fluky years. And so on and so forth.

PLUS, ND can do what Army, Navy, and BYU have done and sign deal with specific bowls on their own and create their own tie-ins. ND is always going to find a bowl. Hell if ND stays independent and loses the Big East tie-in's, a new bowl would probably start tomorrow and sign ND to it. It's really not an issue for ND. ND will always find a bowl.

 

[rrlbees]

^^ but some of these conferences like the ACC have 9 bowl tie ins knowing that in only a fluke year will they send 9 teams to a bowl. The Big 12 has 8 tieins, they aren't sending 8 except in fluky years. And so on and so forth.

PLUS, ND can do what Army, Navy, and BYU have done and sign deal with specific bowls on their own and create their own tie-ins. ND is always going to find a bowl. Hell if ND stays independent and loses the Big East tie-in's, a new bowl would probably start tomorrow and sign ND to it. It's really not an issue for ND. ND will always find a bowl.

So we can expect if ND wants to stay Indy, they will be playing in the Beefaroni Lady Gaga Bowl every year? That's the kind of bowl the ACC 9 team wont be able to fill.

I fully expect ND to join a conference at some point in the near future.

 

[MiniCuse]

I fully expect ND to end up in the ACC for all sports. Swofford started the dominos falling when he took the two programs that would guarantee the eventual collapse of the Big East. When Louisville, WVU and Cincy leave, and they will, ND will be left in the cold. Their football program is no longer strong enough to save their other sports. As the football landscape changes, their fanbase will not support football independence as the other sports are left unanchored. And their fanbase is not going to support a B12 move because culturally it does not make sense for ND. This is the same issue that has kept ND out of the B10. The only move that makes sense for ND is the ACC. The only other question, to me, on ACC expansion, is whether or not they can wrest Penn State out of the Big Ten. If PSU stays, flip a coin for UConn or Rutgers as the last one in. Heads it's UConn, Tails it's UConn.

 

[orange79]

ND can't stay indy if the BE FB conf falls apart. They won't be able to guarantee a bowl berth without it. Could they work a deal with a bowl or two as a wild card? Maybe, but it's not going to be a huge payout bowl. And most likely not in a desirable destination. So, it's either BCS or bust for them without a conference tie-in. I suppose they could work a deal with Conference Clusterf*** (the 32-team conglomeration of MWC, CUSA, and BE). That's the next best thing to the BE alone...

 

[Orange87]

...whether or not they can wrest Penn State out of the Big Ten. If PSU stays, flip a coin for UConn or Rutgers as the last one in. Heads it's UConn, Tails it's UConn.

I've seen this speculation of PSU leaving the Big 10 a few times now and it baffles me. What possible reason would Penn State have to leave the Big 10? Seems to me that they fit perfectly in that conference, have always been, and remain very content in it. Am I missing something?

 

[RF2044]

ND has already said they won't go to the Big 10 because it makes them a "regional" school in the midwest. And they are a HORRIBLE fit for the Big 10 and they realize that. ND likes the ACC because it expands their foot-print across the country and they feel the ACC schools are on their level as a whole (olympic sports) with the rest of the ND sports programs.

How would they be a HORRIBLE fit for the Big 10 [other than they'd struggle to be competitive in football]? That assertion doesn't make sense on any level.

Geographic proximity--check.
Established rivalries with many of the Big 10 schools--check.
Tradition--check.
Quality of olympic sports in Big 10--check.

Notre Dame would be a perfect fit for the Big 10, other than it wouldn't be advantageous for football from their perspective. They're entitled to pursue their self-interests, just like any other team. But they are a more natural fit for the Big 10 than anywhere else now that the Big East is likely no longer viable.

 

[arbitragegls]

How would they be a HORRIBLE fit for the Big 10 [other than they'd struggle to be competitive in football]? That assertion doesn't make sense on any level.

Geographic proximity--check.
Established rivalries with many of the Big 10 schools--check.
Tradition--check.
Quality of olympic sports in Big 10--check.

Notre Dame would be a perfect fit for the Big 10, other than it wouldn't be advantageous for football from their perspective. They're entitled to pursue their self-interests, just like any other team. But they are a more natural fit for the Big 10 than anywhere else now that the Big East is likely no longer viable.

Midwest census heading down...Notre Dame already has its followers there; ACC has growing geographic area...has rivalries with ND; has easier path to BCS; has more olympic and non traditional good sports...Lax, golf, track and field...not to mention ND placed hockey team in eastern conference not midwest...not so fast on picking the B1G

 

[44PRIDE]

Agree that adding PennState is a 100-1 longshot, but it does have some merit.

1. Penn State would be one of the crown jewels of a true east coast conference
2. They would have a much easier path to a championship than in the B12
3. Financially speaking, a TV contract with FSU, PSU and Notre Dame in football then SU, UNC, Dook, UConn in BBall could equal (if not trump) what the B12 would negotiate
4. Much more natural (IE/ regional) rivals

If Penn State were ever to leave the B10, this would be the only time they would/could even consider it. This is the one deal out there that could even remotely match or even surpass what they currently have

The big question is whether it is worth the effort for them to make the jump. In my opinion, that answer is NO.

 

[shantydaze]

As an alum of both a B1G and soon to be ACC school, I am torn between where I would like Notre Dame to land as I think both conferences provide value to the school. In the end, though, I think the ACC would benefit more from an affiliation with ND than the B1G. I would really like the ACC to create its own network like the BTN so that I will have access to more SU sport broadcasts. Adding ND may create the demand for such a channel and could be able to move it off a sports tier on DirecTV.

The biggest problem I have with ND joining the ACC is whether a 16 team conference is too large. A lot would depend on how the divisions were created, but I would be disappointed if we were not able to play the original ACC schools on a consistent basis. Also, in as much as I assume UConn would be number 16 in the ACC, I do not want Rutgers anywhere near the B1G.

 

[RF2044]

Midwest census heading down...Notre Dame already has its followers there; ACC has growing geographic area...has rivalries with ND; has easier path to BCS; has more olympic and non traditional good sports...Lax, golf, track and field...not to mention ND placed hockey team in eastern conference not midwest...not so fast on picking the B1G

I want to be clear, I'm not "picking" Notre Dame to end up in the Big 10. I'm just challenging the notion that they don't fit there, per the post above. I'd love to see them come to the ACC along with us, instead of UConn or Rutgers.

Let me rebut some of your points:

Midwest census heading down...Notre Dame already has its followers there;
Notre Dame has a national following--not sure that the population trend in the midwest is relevant. A confernce move wouldn't be about generating more "followers," not even sure that gaining access to new television markets would be a factor. They're already on NBC, and they already have an amazing television deal. They won't be able to top that in $$$ or exposure joining any conference. IMO, the only two reason they'd be induced to join a confernece for football would be [1] if the NBC deal goes away, or [2] if they are somehow shut out from participating in the BCS / playoffs / whatever form the postseason takes once the dust settles.

As noted above, I get why ND fit in the Big East, and that they identified with the catholic institutions comprising half of the BE's membership. I also understand that they identify more with the northeast than the midwest. Not sure that that would be true of the southeast, where a significant portion of the ACC resides.

ACC has growing geographic area...has rivalries with ND
Other than BC [a big one], what ACC teams does Notre Dame have rivalries with? And are you really suggesting that these rivalries are on par with the traditional rivalries they have with Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, etc.? Admittedly, I didn't count Pitt here since they aren't competing in the ACC yet].

has easier path to BCS;
No argument there--that's one of the off the record main reasons I think that ND has avoided joining the Big 10. However, this isn't a point about "fit."

has more olympic and non traditional good sports...Lax, golf, track and field
I'll certainly concede lax. The other olympic sports is debatable, given the quality of Big 10 non-revenue generating sports.

not to mention ND placed hockey team in eastern conference not midwest
...the Big 10 doesn't exist as a hockey conference today, although I think they just formed one [supposed to start in a few years]. Powerhouse hockey programs like Minnesota / Wisconsin play in other leagues.

 

[arbitragegls]

I want to be clear, I'm not "picking" Notre Dame to end up in the Big 10. I'm just challenging the notion that they don't fit there, per the post above. I'd love to see them come to the ACC along with us, instead of UConn or Rutgers.

Let me rebut some of your points:

Midwest census heading down...Notre Dame already has its followers there;
Notre Dame has a national following--not sure that the population trend in the midwest is relevant. A confernce move wouldn't be about generating more "followers," not even sure that gaining access to new television markets would be a factor. They're already on NBC, and they already have an amazing television deal. They won't be able to top that in $$$ or exposure joining any conference. IMO, the only two reason they'd be induced to join a confernece for football would be [1] if the NBC deal goes away, or [2] if they are somehow shut out from participating in the BCS / playoffs / whatever form the postseason takes once the dust settles.

As noted above, I get why ND fit in the Big East, and that they identified with the catholic institutions comprising half of the BE's membership. I also understand that they identify more with the northeast than the midwest. Not sure that that would be true of the southeast, where a significant portion of the ACC resides.

ACC has growing geographic area...has rivalries with ND
Other than BC [a big one], what ACC teams does Notre Dame have rivalries with? And are you really suggesting that these rivalries are on par with the traditional rivalries they have with Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, etc.? Admittedly, I didn't count Pitt here since they aren't competing in the ACC yet].

has easier path to BCS;
No argument there--that's one of the off the record main reasons I think that ND has avoided joining the Big 10. However, this isn't a point about "fit."

has more olympic and non traditional good sports...Lax, golf, track and field
I'll certainly concede lax. The other olympic sports is debatable, given the quality of Big 10 non-revenue generating sports.

not to mention ND placed hockey team in eastern conference not midwest
...the Big 10 doesn't exist as a hockey conference today, although I think they just formed one [supposed to start in a few years]. Powerhouse hockey programs like Minnesota / Wisconsin play in other leagues.

some very good points; however, don't forget soccer and baseball...also, there is a midwestern hockey conference and ND chose the eastern conference...bent toward east...as far as rivalries dont discount Syracuse, VT and Miami...prior to going to ACC...and importantly, football recruitment although nationally needs a more southern bent for the very best players.

Lastly, I would direct you to the, OMG bleacherreport I posted today...just found it and it is fairly good article...despite source...

My bet...Notre Dame goes netiher but more likely to ACC...private institutions...academics are important...just look at why WVU hasnt been offered by ACC...the make-up of conference schools is more similar to Notre Dame than the B1g

 

[Stern]

How would they be a HORRIBLE fit for the Big 10 [other than they'd struggle to be competitive in football]? That assertion doesn't make sense on any level.

Geographic proximity--check.
Established rivalries with many of the Big 10 schools--check.
Tradition--check.
Quality of olympic sports in Big 10--check.

Notre Dame would be a perfect fit for the Big 10, other than it wouldn't be advantageous for football from their perspective. They're entitled to pursue their self-interests, just like any other team. But they are a more natural fit for the Big 10 than anywhere else now that the Big East is likely no longer viable.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/?podcas...+Francesa&station_id=62&tag=pages&dcid=CBS.NY

LISTEN AND LEARN (just before the 13 min mark)

 

[riskylogic]

It seems to me that the ACC, or any other conference with divisions for that matter, could let ND join as a "full member" as long as they play their divisional round robin. For a 16 team league, that means 7 games. If the cross divisional games serve only as a divisional tiebreaker, the divisonal championship would come froma balanced schedule. If they don't play those games, ND will always lose that tiebreaker, but if they are willing to trade that for a "national schedule", then so be it. Maybe later on they figure out that a marginal recruiting advantage in California (or whatever) isn't worth the marginal increase in the probability of winning the division and play the 2 or 3 cross-divisional games too.

 

[arbitragegls]

...seems right on...my bet; albeit no money down, is that Notre Dame goes ACC...perhaps with a stretch of time where football remains independent...but dont forget, four games against ACC this year and coming years on schedule already...so...with all the other factors; private universities, academics, olympic sports...Notre Dame will choose to marry the ACC and Acc will welcome with open arms...Swofford was posturing...and will get the best deal for the ACC and it will be Notre Dame (just like ND posturing with Big 12)--Notre Dame and ACC will come together...bet on it!!!!!

 

[sufan]

It seems to me that the ACC, or any other conference with divisions for that matter, could let ND join as a "full member" as long as they play their divisional round robin. For a 16 team league, that means 7 games. If the cross divisional games serve only as a divisional tiebreaker, the divisonal championship would come froma balanced schedule. If they don't play those games, ND will always lose that tiebreaker, but if they are willing to trade that for a "national schedule", then so be it. Maybe later on they figure out that a marginal recruiting advantage in California (or whatever) isn't worth the marginal increase in the probability of winning the division and play the 2 or 3 cross-divisional games too.

------------------

The problem with ND joining an ACC at 16 or Big 10 at 14 teams is that the teams will be playing 9 conference games.

If ND only wants to play games within their division, then you have a situation where most of the conference teams are not going to play them. ND will be playing a "select group" of schools.

That is a recipe for creating problems.

ND should do what it is doing; stay independent and schedule as it wishes. If it wants to join the ACC then it needs to join as a full member.

 

[orange79]

ND should do what it is doing; stay independent and schedule as it wishes. If it wants to join the ACC then it needs to join as a full member.

Yep - all in, or all out. No BE middle ground.

 

[KaiserUEO]

It seems to me that the ACC, or any other conference with divisions for that matter, could let ND join as a "full member" as long as they play their divisional round robin. For a 16 team league, that means 7 games. If the cross divisional games serve only as a divisional tiebreaker, the divisonal championship would come froma balanced schedule. If they don't play those games, ND will always lose that tiebreaker, but if they are willing to trade that for a "national schedule", then so be it. Maybe later on they figure out that a marginal recruiting advantage in California (or whatever) isn't worth the marginal increase in the probability of winning the division and play the 2 or 3 cross-divisional games too.

guys, this makes a little sense. its wiggle room.

nd is getting the short stick here, but keeping 5 noncon games.

id do it.

add rutgers as 16 and lets close up shop.

again kids, we are already in New England, dont need to go there again. go cry on fishys doorstep.....


Oh Lord

 

[RF2044]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/nyc.podcast.play.it/media/d0/d0/d0/dZ/d1/d8/dH/Z18H_3.MP3?authtok=5561599503915814294_gpERAsakgeKw3Mh2rBdmKhPzfs&podcast_name=Brian Hamilton - With Mike Francesa&podcast_artist=Mike Francesa&station_id=62&tag=pages&dcid=CBS.NY

LISTEN AND LEARN (just before the 13 min mark)

That's your source? A journalist pontificating on the Mike Francessa show? :crazy: He only got one thing right [paraphrasing]:

"Going to the Big 10 is football suicide..."

Damn right it would be "football suicide," but that's more about Notre Dame's ability to be consistently competitive in a conference that has Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Nebraska, Penn State, etc. Nothing that journalist talked about had anything to do with whether the Big 10 would be a good fit, other than the faulty logic he employed about how joining the Big 10 would adversely impact Notre Dame's ability to recruit. BS. Whatever conference they join, ND would continue to recruit players from all over, the same way they always have.

By the way--your source also predicted that ND would beat USC. 0-2 in that podcast.