Nerlens Noel injury is why the 1 and done rule is a joke

[Gabjon]

Basically the NBAPA sold out 18 year old men's right to make money so the veteran's minimum could go up a couple hundred thousand? All we need is for Lebron James and Kobe Bryant to come out and talk about this rule and the NBAPA would back down. They committed a mistake, but your right its collectively bargained and can't be undone easily. The NBA- and NBAPA should come together and embrace the NBDL have 30 teams make them all located near their parent clubs and it would help professional basketball.

I agree, but it will never happen. The owners will want money back from the players to finance the expanded minor league system and the players will not go for it. Players think short term because of the length of there careers, while owners think long term because their teams are assets that appreciate in value over time.

 

[Marsh01]

Good article by douchebag Forde today on Yahoo on this subject

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab-...ing-talent-s-basketball-career-042703462.html

 

[Fly Rodder]

I don't think the % of injury is the issue at least it is not the issue for me, but it is economics. If given the chose to go pro or go to college and Noel chose college got hurt and lowered his draft stock that is one thing, but when the chose has been taking from him because it is in the best economic interest of others it is very upsetting.

Right. It's that they don't have a choice to play professional basketball. An 18 year old can sign on the dotted line and put his country's uniform on and swear to make the ultimate sacrifice ... but he can't talk to an agent about playing in the NBA.

It's to protect the kids! Horsepucky. It's about the NBA maintaining their free developmental league and the NCAA making billions on their "amateur" tournaments with free labor.

 

[Knicks411]

It's to protect the kids! Horsepucky. It's about the NBA maintaining their free developmental league and the NCAA making billions on their "amateur" tournaments with free labor.

I remember reading a quote from Stern that was surprisingly upfront about that

 

[Gabjon]

I remember reading a quote from Stern that was surprisingly upfront about that

Agreed he has come out and said this several times. It is why it boggles my mind when people try to argue the point. The TV networks also were a big player in this because they wanted these kids in college for college basketball ratings. NBA likes their players associated with universities because it helps bring alumni of that particular school to the NBA as they follow their player from college to the pros, and it works! I'm the biggest NBA fan around but I wouldn't give 2 s about the Cavs if Dion wasn't on the team. Now I'm following almost like they are the Knicks.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

...Forcing these types of players into the college game (Paul Harris) gave them a chance to realize their shortcomings and work on them rather than being the next Kwame Brown. Nothing could be worse than getting to the NBA and then having the GM's and coaches realize that you are too raw, even for them.

Nothing could be worse? Nothing???

I'll tell you what's worse.

Going to college where you're shortcomings are highlighted - thus ruining your shot at EVER getting an NBA contract in the first place.

Go ask Paul Harris if have rather been an NBA first rounder, paid first round money for three years, and then shuffled off to Europe OR if he'd rather have played for 3 years at Syracuse and never reached the NBA.

I think he'd take the first round money in a heartbeat.

So yeah, there are worse things than getting to the NBA and having your weaknesses discovered.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

It's not a joke. There should just be an acknowledgment among reasonable people that not all rules are perfect solutions.

Why isn't anyone complaining about the NFL rule? Personally, i wish there were a 2 or 3 year college requirement, and an NCAA-provided insurance policy.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Not all rules are perfect solutions, but this one seems particularly poorly designed and implemented to benefit the wealthy and elite over a bunch of (largely) middle and lower class kids. And really we're looking at an absurdly low number of kids (10-15 max) and a smaller subset of kids with the skills that translate immediately to the NBA. Plus the NBA career is fleeting and exceptionally (short lived even for lottery picks). If you have the ability to play basketball at a level that draws an incredible amount of money, you should be able to get paid for it. If you're on the hump and need development time you can go to the D-league or spend 3 years in college getting laid every night and be a star on a campus somewhere.

But they shouldn't force a kid to play for free and risk that fleeting chance at more money than he would probably earn in a lifetime otherwise with that college degree because that's the solution they themselves came up with.

 

[Alsacs]

It's not a joke. There should just be an acknowledgment among reasonable people that not all rules are perfect solutions.

Why isn't anyone complaining about the NFL rule? Personally, i wish there were a 2 or 3 year college requirement, and an NCAA-provided insurance policy.

I think the NFL rule is a joke as well and Maurice Clarett sued and won in District Court before the Court of Appeals overturned the decision. I took Sports Law in Law School and here is my summary of the Clarett vs. NFL. Clarett lost because of the Rule of Reason highlighted. I always felt potential players i.e. Draft picks shouldn't be subject to the CBA until they are drafted into the league they are hoping to enter.

· CLARETT v. NFL (S.D. 2004) - FINDS FOR CLARETT AND SAYS HE CAN PLAY (SHORT LIVED)
§ Clarett wanted to play in the NFL despite his inability to comply with the league rule limiting eligibility to players three seasons removed from their high school graduation.
§ Court said: the Rule violates the antitrust laws and ordered that Clarett be eligible to participate in the 2004 NFL draft.
· The rule makes a class of potential players unemployable
· Wages, hours and conditions affect only those who are employed or eligible for employment
· The rules don’t apply to you unless you're a party to the bargaining
· Exemption does not apply to those who are excluded from the bargaining unit
· CLARETT v. NFL (CERT DENIED, 2005) - THIS IS THE COURT OF APPEALS REVERSING IN FAVOR OF NFL
§ Same facts as above.
§ Court reversed district court's ruling and ordered Clarett be made eligible for the draft.
· Court decides to go with more of a reasonable, balancing test than the strict test under Mackey because case is distinct from Mackey
· In regards to the 3rd prong of Mackey…
· The Union lawyers knew of all the terms and by laws when the agreement was made a conscious decision not to make a stink about the eligibility rules

Continued Viability of Antitrust Litigation in Player-Management Conflicts
· CLARETT v. NFL (REV'D AGAIN ON OTHER GROUNDS, 2nd Circuit 2004) - COURT OF APPEALS AFFIRMED, SORRY CLARETT YOU CAN'T PLAY IN THE NFL
§ Back to Clarett again.
§ Upheld NFL and said he was ineligible. Court makes a bunch of statements about how the NFL is the only game in town for football players
· Application of the Rule of Reason:
· P bears the initial burden of showing that the challenged action has had an actual adverse effect on competition as a whole in the relevant market
· After the P satisfies this burden it shifts to the D to offer evidence of the pro-competitive "redeeming virtues" of their combination
· Assuming D meets this burden, it shifts back to the P to demonstrate that any legit collaborative objectives proffered by the D could have been achieved by less restrictive means that would be less prejudicial to competition as a whole
· In conclusion:
§ Baseball is strangely exempt
§ Mackey created the policy that labor laws are preferred when dealing with the CBA's of sports teams
· Created a nonstatutory exemption to prevent antitrust claims during an impasse during bargaining for CBA's to force parties to find redress under labor laws

 

[SteveC]

Truthfully I just wish a kid could enter the draft but go back to college if they weren't drafted.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Truthfully I just wish a kid could enter the draft but go back to college if they weren't drafted.

This is more or less what baseball players can do. They can be drafted and negotiate with teams until the signing deadline before going to college. There's a world of difference in thinking you're top-10 and knowing you're top-10.

 

[sufandu]

I don't understand how the NBAPA thinks a 1 and done rule is good for them. These kids should have the right to entire the NBA after high school just like they can in hockey and baseball. I understand the NFL's rule as they want men to have more developed bodies to play the brutal sport, but even that rule should be examined on a case by case basis somebody like Jadeveon Clowney should be allowed to enter the NFL after 2 years, but I understand that rule. The NBA has no reason for the one and done rule now you see this injury to Noel and hope it doesn't hurt his NBA stock. If the NBA wanted more developed players entering the league then negotiate a better process for kids entering the league. The NHL and MLB have WAY better processes than the NBA in the NHL kids are drafted at 18 years and if they go to college then the NHL teams retain the kids rights while they stay in college and when they want to go pro the team that drafted them has 1 year to sign them or they reenter the draft this would be a better way to do the process or the NBA could go the MLB way and have the draft and the kid can either sign with the team that drafts or if they decline to sign with the team out of high school then the kid has to wait 3 years to re-enter the draft. Either of these processes would be better than the 1 and done rule, but it takes freak injuries like last night to get the discussion rolling.

Noel Nerlens injury is why noone should put all of their stock in playing a professional sport. What if this happened in highschool? The one and done rule is far from perfect, but it has helped the NBA. There are far fewer prospects entering the draft before they were ready than when kids were jumping straight from HS. I agree the NHL and MLB processes would be better. I'd prefer the NFL rule of at least three years out of highschool. For me it has nothing to do with physical readiness. Guys learn how to play the game in a team concept in college before entering the league and it results in a better product on the floor/field. The "one and done" prospects would also get the chance to play against other "one and done" guys if they all stayed in school longer. And who knows, maybe they'd get an education to fall back on in case of a freak injury during their rookie year *cough* Greg Oden *cough*.

 

[Knicks411]

And who knows, maybe they'd get an education to fall back on in case of a freak injury during their rookie year *cough* Greg Oden *cough*.

An education would be nice, but I'd rather have the $23 million Greg oden has made in the NBA than a college education, which I could get at any time anyway

 

[sufandu]

An education would be nice, but I'd rather have the $23 million Greg oden has made in the NBA than a college education, which I could get at any time anyway

So would Allen Iverson. Sometimes education doesn't just mean you learn how to make money, but you may learn how to manage it. It's not a guarantee, but the life skills learned at college can mean as much or more the the degree you earn. Obviously, AI failed to take advantage of that aspect of college, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit others.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I've got a nice college education and a decent middle class profession ... I'd trade it all for $10 million in a heartbeat. That's more or less what Flynn has made in his "disastrous" NBA career. People think he should trade that back for two more years of free basketball and $50,000 a year job?

And like I posed upthread, a small percentage of college players actually leave early for the NBA. And they should, most are good enough to be paid to play against the best. The ones who aren't can't truly find out until after they give up their college status.

<i>The one and done rule is far from perfect, but it has helped the NBA. </I>

Sure it helps the NBA, but it doesn't do much for the kids doing the work. But the NBA already has billions of dollars to play with. A kid's chance to play in the NBA and earn a shot at a few million, enough money for a lifetime, is already really low. Why risk more for no real reason?

 

[Gabjon]

So would Allen Iverson. Sometimes education doesn't just mean you learn how to make money, but you may learn how to manage it. It's not a guarantee, but the life skills learned at college can mean as much or more the the degree you earn. Obviously, AI failed to take advantage of that aspect of college, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit others.

Statics on the number of lawyers and doctors filing chapter 11 would probably disagree with that statement.

 

[sufandu]

Sure it helps the NBA, but it doesn't do much for the kids doing the work. But the NBA already has billions of dollars to play with. A kid's chance to play in the NBA and earn a shot at a few million, enough money for a lifetime, is already really low. Why risk more for no real reason?

It's not the NBA's responsibility to look out for people that hope to be employed by them. It's their job to look out for their own best interests. We don't place the responsibility on any other employer to make it easier to become employed by them, why do we have different expectations for pro sports organizations. When some blue collar guy loses his job because it's been moved to china, we say he needs to reeducate himself to become employable. When a guy tears up his knee, we say the NBA should have given him his payday when he wanted it.

 

[sufandu]

Statics on the number of lawyers and doctors filing chapter 11 would probably disagree with that statement.

So because some people never get it, that means noone ever does? How many doctors and lawyers aren't filing chapter 11? It's harder to keep statistics on the guys that do get it.

 

[goodroc]

Noel might not lose one dime from the injury -- very good chance he still goes number #1 in that case he losses nada-- he might drop spot or 2 but will not go lower than 5

 

[Fly Rodder]

So would Allen Iverson. Sometimes education doesn't just mean you learn how to make money, but you may learn how to manage it. It's not a guarantee, but the life skills learned at college can mean as much or more the the degree you earn. Obviously, AI failed to take advantage of that aspect of college, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit others.

That doesn't have anything to do with whether or not players should be paid for their services. Unless you think that all athletes are stupid. Iverson had a ridiculous gambling problem plus he also set up a trust fund for himself that's still paying him. That's why he's cash-poor, it's not because he didn't finish college.

And black basketball players aren't the only ones that go broke after making a ton of money. There are plenty of bankers with MBAs that make bad investments and end up broke, too. They're just not famous.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We don't place the responsibility on any other employer to make it easier to become employed by them, why do we have different expectations for pro sports organizations.

They have legal entitlements that prevent other professional sports leagues from forming. As such, they enjoy privileges that most other private entities do not and are protected from competition.

 

[Knicks411]

Noel might not lose one dime from the injury -- very good chance he still goes number #1 in that case he losses nada-- he might drop spot or 2 but will not go lower than 5

You think he's going #1 in June? I really doubt that. If he goes #1 in 2014, then he needs to wait a year longer to go to free agency

 

[cuseincincy]

Not the NBA or the NBAPA's problem. The reality of the rule is that all it serves to do is protect the owners from their own stupidity by giving them time to see a player play against non-high school competition. The number of kids that would have been high picks if they had not stayed in college to allow their problems to be seen is far greater than the number of players who get hurt before they get a chance to go to the NBA. Injuries don't always hurt a players draft status either. See Kyrie Irving and Kenyon Martin as prime examples. Noel would be wise NOT to come back and play this season because he'll likely still be the #1 pick unless he comes back and shows that he is not the same player.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The one really good thing about the rule is that it forces the marginal Elite HS players from screwing themselves out of the collegiate opportunity. At one time it seemed like HS kids were entering the draft as a way to show off to their buddies. Some had ZERO chance of being drafted, but they signed with an agent and ruined their chances of a back-up plan. Forcing these types of players into the college game (Paul Harris) gave them a chance to realize their shortcomings and work on them rather than being the next Kwame Brown. Nothing could be worse than getting to the NBA and then having the GM's and coaches realize that you are too raw, even for them.

The problem with your take is that it views Kwame Brown as a failure.

 

[sufandu]

That doesn't have anything to do with whether or not players should be paid for their services. Unless you think that all athletes are stupid. Iverson had a ridiculous gambling problem plus he also set up a trust fund for himself that's still paying him. That's why he's cash-poor, it's not because he didn't finish college.

And black basketball players aren't the only ones that go broke after making a ton of money. There are plenty of bankers with MBAs that make bad investments and end up broke, too. They're just not famous.

I'm saying guys should take advantage of an opportunity to learn skills that can benefit them in case their bodies fail them, both formal and life skills. Why is that so wrong? I know "black basketball players" (I don't know why you brought race into this) aren't the only people that end up broke. All kinds of demographics can learn from wealthy people that didn't manage their finances well. As far as people getting paid for their services, it sounds like you're arguing for college players getting paid. That hasn't even been what we're debating. An employer has the right to establish their own requirements for entry level employment, including professional sports organizations. If that's one year of college experience, so be it. Most employers require experience, internships, certifications, or degrees (especially at 6 or 7 figure starting salaries), why do we hold professional sports to a different standard?