Nerlens Noel injury is why the 1 and done rule is a joke

[sufandu]

They have legal entitlements that prevent other professional sports leagues from forming. As such, they enjoy privileges that most other private entities do not and are protected from competition.

Their have been competing pro sports leagues in the past, ie NBA -vs- ABA . The market just hasn't supported more than one league in our country at a time. Nothing is stopping anyone from going internationally if there is mutual interest.

 

[timkay99]

I don't understand how the MLB process is any more fair to kids -- its fair to MLB, but they can also handle it due to their minor league systems which develop kids better than the NCAA. How someone can crusade against the NBA model as being unfair to kids and say the MLB model is better for kids is beyond me.

What if someone's draft position and marketability increases significantly as a freshmen -- a young pitcher. He now has to risk his arm to injury for two more to years. How is that any more fair to the player? Just because the guy developed as a stud prospect one year later he is going to get punished by two more years?

The player you are referring to is Carlos Rodon, who took the college baseball world by storm as a true frosh and was dominant as the Friday night starter for the NC State Wolfpack.

It is fair because he turned down money from the Brewers when they drafted him as a 16th rounder out of high school.

If he felt confident that the money offered by the Brewers was the best he could do, he could have taken it. If he thought he was worth more, he could go to college and prove it.

Noel never had the opportunity to go pro before getting hurt (when it used to be the norm for the NBA)

 

[PeteCalvin]

The problem with your take is that it views Kwame Brown as a failure.

He made his money, but he also developed an ignominious reputation as a talent with no work ethic. That has followed him his entire career. If you base success on the fact that he's hung around and made money, yes he has been successful. He was probably a bad example since he was drafted #1. I probably should have gone with another HS player who either wasn't drafted or fell into the second round abyss.

I am sure Paul Harris would love to have been drafted in the first round coming out of HS. He probably should have had the chance. But you never know how it would have turned out for him. He could have gotten into those workouts and revealed the shortcomings we all saw when he played at SU. Good scouts would have picked up on that and he could have slid from lottery to second round. You don't know. Would he have been as successful washing out of the NBA after three years or getting a foundation in college, under a great coach, and having a successful overseas career like he has now? Paul has done well for himself, regardless. Could he have made some bigger $$$? Probably, but he may have more longevity now. Again, we don't know.

Bottom line is the One and Done rule needs to go.

 

[sufandu]

Noel never had the opportunity to go pro before getting hurt (when it used to be the norm for the NBA)

Yes he did. He could have gone to Europe like Brandon Jennings. The pay probably wouldn't have been any worse than a MLB 16 round draft pick.

 

[timkay99]

Yes he did. He could have gone to Europe like Brandon Jennings. The pay probably wouldn't have been any worse than a MLB 16 round draft pick.

He wouldn't have gotten 16th round money if he signed. He would have gotten sandwich round money if he signed.

Europe doesn't pay that great from last I heard ($700,000).

And, what makes you think Noel could afford to move out there for a year? It takes a special kid with a family with a significant amount of money to make that decision.

 

[Quazzum69]

I think people are forgetting that the NBA is a private organization - a business - that can make whatever rules it wants about how it is run, including how old its employees must be. If the NBA determined that 18-year-old kids directly out of high school are not "qualified" to do the job, then why the fuss? All jobs have requirements so why is one year of "basketball experience beyond highschool" so outrageous?

Does anyone make a big deal that organizations require a college degree or work experience before getting "drafted" by them? Some people may benefit from getting hired right out of high school by a company instead of going to college. If I had been hired out of highschool before college, I wouldn't have been arrested for indecent exposure and public drunkenness and would be employed.

 

[Gabjon]

So because some people never get it, that means noone ever does? How many doctors and lawyers aren't filing chapter 11? It's harder to keep statistics on the guys that do get it.

No it means people who get it... get it and people who don't... don't and a college degree has nothing to do with it!

 

[Gabjon]

Noel might not lose one dime from the injury -- very good chance he still goes number #1 in that case he losses nada-- he might drop spot or 2 but will not go lower than 5

No he is being drafted because he can run and jump not because of his basketball skill. Also all ACL's tears aren't equal. Rondo walked off the court. Let's see how it goes

 

[orangepassion]

At least Noel plays under Calipari-so he should be getting paid. The question is whether his contract was guaranteed.

 

[kirbivore]

Nothing could be worse? Nothing???

I'll tell you what's worse.

Going to college where you're shortcomings are highlighted - thus ruining your shot at EVER getting an NBA contract in the first place.

Go ask Paul Harris if have rather been an NBA first rounder, paid first round money for three years, and then shuffled off to Europe OR if he'd rather have played for 3 years at Syracuse and never reached the NBA.

I think he'd take the first round money in a heartbeat.

So yeah, there are worse things than getting to the NBA and having your weaknesses discovered.

After Paul Harris worked out for teams before the draft there's no chance in hell he would have been a first round pick. 6'4 no j and no handle are not qualities teams give out guaranteed contracts for.

 

[sufandu]

He wouldn't have gotten 16th round money if he signed. He would have gotten sandwich round money if he signed.

Europe doesn't pay that great from last I heard ($700,000).

And, what makes you think Noel could afford to move out there for a year? It takes a special kid with a family with a significant amount of money to make that decision.

Last I checked $700,000 is pretty good pay for a 18-19 year old kid straight out of highschool. The only example we have of a high profile highschool kid going to europe instead of college is Brandon Jennings. He reportedly had a contract for $1.65 million with Lottomatica and a $2 million contract with Under Armour. This is according to wikipedia, so take it fwiw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Jennings. Your question of whether he could afford to move to europe doesn't make any sense. Why would he be any less capable of affording to move to and live in europe than Eric Devendorf? Did ED come from a wealthy family? Certainly NN would've made more money in europe than him. If he's making six figure (or maybe 7 figure) money he can afford to live in europe. Some european basketball teams even pay for living expenses. That actually led to an elibility issue with another recent KU player that came from europe.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Nothing could be worse? Nothing???

I'll tell you what's worse.

Going to college where you're shortcomings are highlighted - thus ruining your shot at EVER getting an NBA contract in the first place.

Go ask Paul Harris if have rather been an NBA first rounder, paid first round money for three years, and then shuffled off to Europe OR if he'd rather have played for 3 years at Syracuse and never reached the NBA.

I think he'd take the first round money in a heartbeat.

So yeah, there are worse things than getting to the NBA and having your weaknesses discovered.

I'm glad Paul Harris didn't get paid to play in the NBA. That exactly is what was making the NBA unwatchable. No way Harris ever would have panned out and he would have eaten up a better players chance to get to the NBA. Yes, I think there should be a place where high school kids shortcomings are either highlighted or corrected.

 

[sufandu]

No it means people who get it... get it and people who don't... don't and a college degree has nothing to do with it!

I didn't say a degree fixes everything. Take some time to read what I said. Many college students (athlete and not) learn life skills in the semi-controlled environment of college that benefit them the rest of their lives. Of course not everyone does, but that doesn't mean it doesn't benefit others. You don't know who will or won't until they actually do it.

 

[sufandu]

I think people are forgetting that the NBA is a private organization - a business - that can make whatever rules it wants about how it is run, including how old its employees must be. If the NBA determined that 18-year-old kids directly out of high school are not "qualified" to do the job, then why the fuss? All jobs have requirements so why is one year of "basketball experience beyond highschool" so outrageous?

Does anyone make a big deal that organizations require a college degree or work experience before getting "drafted" by them? Some people may benefit from getting hired right out of high school by a company instead of going to college. If I had been hired out of highschool before college, I wouldn't have been arrested for indecent exposure and public drunkenness and would be employed.

The fuss is because far to many people think the NBA owes something to these kids. For some reason, people think this private organization should run completely different than all others. They have probably also forgotten what the NBA had devolved into before the rule. They don't want to admit that the rule has helped to weed out many of the poor prospects teams were taking chances on because they didn't want to miss out on the next Kobe or Garnett.

 

[Gabjon]

I didn't say a degree fixes everything. Take some time to read what I said. Many college students (athlete and not) learn life skills in the semi-controlled environment of college that benefit them the rest of their lives. Of course not everyone does, but that doesn't mean it doesn't benefit others. You don't know who will or won't until they actually do it.

Yeah I completely disagree, life skills are generated from a strong family structure not a college environment. People without a strong family structure in their youth will struggle at much higher numbers than those with a strong family support system

 

[sufandu]

Yeah I completely disagree, life skills are generated from a strong family structure not a college environment. People without a strong family structure in their youth will struggle at much higher numbers than those with a strong family support system

I agree that life skills are ideally generated from a strong family structure. So are you saying that in the absence of that, someone has no chance to obtain them anywhere else? Has noone in history risen above a poor family environment to succeed in life? How often do we hear about former athletes that considered a college coach a mentor? Does that only benefit guys not talented enough to turn pro straight out of highschool, or is it possible more physically gifted individuals could benefit from that sort of relationship as well? I'm not guaranteeing everyone will obtain life skills while in college, but doesn't it provide opportunity? How can that be false?

 

[timkay99]

Last I checked $700,000 is pretty good pay for a 18-19 year old kid straight out of highschool. The only example we have of a high profile highschool kid going to europe instead of college is Brandon Jennings. He reportedly had a contract for $1.65 million with Lottomatica and a $2 million contract with Under Armour. This is according to wikipedia, so take it fwiw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Jennings. Your question of whether he could afford to move to europe doesn't make any sense. Why would he be any less capable of affording to move to and live in europe than Eric Devendorf? Did ED come from a wealthy family? Certainly NN would've made more money in europe than him. If he's making six figure (or maybe 7 figure) money he can afford to live in europe. Some european basketball teams even pay for living expenses. That actually led to an elibility issue with another recent KU player that came from europe.

You have to remember Jeremy Tyler (he is now being used as a reason for why you shouldn't go pro to Europe). An 18 year old living by themselves in another country is a huge lifestyle change (and people think kids get homesick going to a different state).

I screwed up on the 700,000. That was the amount Rodon was asking for to bypass college, not the amount they get paid in Europe for basketball.

Because Devendorf had another 4 years of ability to earn money. Some teams pay for living expenses, but not all. It requires a substantial investment from the family to relocate your 18 year old child to another country.

The fuss is because far to many people think the NBA owes something to these kids. For some reason, people think this private organization should run completely different than all others. They have probably also forgotten what the NBA had devolved into before the rule. They don't want to admit that the rule has helped to weed out many of the poor prospects teams were taking chances on because they didn't want to miss out on the next Kobe or Garnett.

The fuss is because you can play in the NBA immediately as a high schooler. That has been proven.

MLB and NHL, you go through the minor leagues. NFL, there is no kid that is ready straight out of high school from a physical perspective.

The NBA is already running completely different than all the others. They are the only league that both can have someone compete (and at a high level) as a high school graduate and doesn't present that option to their clientele.

 

[Gabjon]

I agree that life skills are ideally generated from a strong family structure. So are you saying that in the absence of that, someone has no chance to obtain them anywhere else? Has noone in history risen above a poor family environment to succeed in life? How often do we hear about former athletes that considered a college coach a mentor? Does that only benefit guys not talented enough to turn pro straight out of highschool, or is it possible more physically gifted individuals could benefit from that sort of relationship as well? I'm not guaranteeing everyone will obtain life skills while in college, but doesn't it provide opportunity? How can that be false?

No I saying most people who have overcome a tough family background did not so by going to college. They had the internal will and strength to come there situation, and it is purely or close to it an internal mechanism that you either have or you do not.

 

[sufandu]

You have to remember Jeremy Tyler (he is now being used as a reason for why you shouldn't go pro to Europe). An 18 year old living by themselves in another country is a huge lifestyle change (and people think kids get homesick going to a different state).

How is it any different than international students coming to the U.S. to go to college or for young european prospects playing in the NBA. My sister was a foreign exchange student for 10 months at the age of 16. If an 18 year old isn't mature enough to handle it, maybe he needs to go to college before becoming an instant millionaire. Additionally, someone making that kind of money can afford to move someone with them.

Because Devendorf had another 4 years of ability to earn money. Some teams pay for living expenses, but not all. It requires a substantial investment from the family to relocate your 18 year old child to another country.

I don't understand your argument here. How is a guy making a low 6 figure salary more financially capable of living abroad than a guy making a 7 figure salary. If someone is perceived as a future NBA lottery pick, he can certainly negotiate for living expenses in his contract.

The fuss is because you can play in the NBA immediately as a high schooler. That has been proven.

It's also been proven that the NBA product was watered down by straight out of highschool draftees that weren't ready. The one year rule has allowed scouts to better weed out pretenders.

The NBA is already running completely different than all the others. They are the only league that both can have someone compete (and at a high level) as a high school graduate and doesn't present that option to their clientele.

They're not clientele. They're prospects for employment, and an employer has the right to establish entry level criteria.

 

[sufandu]

No I saying most people who have overcome a tough family background did not so by going to college. They had the internal will and strength to come there situation, and it is purely or close to it an internal mechanism that you either have or you do not.

I'm sure they did have an internal will or strength. But to make the claim that some didn't use college as a tool, or possibly found a mentor there? I'm calling BS on that one. Look at the way Scoop Jardine or Dion Waiters talk about JB.

 

[timkay99]

How is it any different than international students coming to the U.S. to go to college or for young european prospects playing in the NBA. My sister was a foreign exchange student for 10 months at the age of 16. If an 18 year old isn't mature enough to handle it, maybe he needs to go to college before becoming an instant millionaire. Additionally, someone making that kind of money can afford to move someone with them.

Now, your saying the whole family should pick up and move with the kid? Or have the mom leave the rest of their family? It is different for international student coming for college because many believe the United States offers the best level of education. Same for young European prospects playing in the NBA. Don't get me wrong, if a high schooler in the U.S. grows up wanting to play professionally in Europe, he has that right to go pro out of high school. Why doesn't he get that right for the NBA?

I don't understand your argument here. How is a guy making a low 6 figure salary more financially capable of living abroad than a guy making a 7 figure salary. If someone is perceived as a future NBA lottery pick, he can certainly negotiate for living expenses in his contract.

Europe has had its own struggles with players not getting paid and things like that. Regardless of what you may think (if they aren't able to get living expenses paid for) it is a substantial investment by the family to send him to Europe for a season with the only reason being so he can wait his year for the NBA.

It's also been proven that the NBA product was watered down by straight out of highschool draftees that weren't ready. The one year rule has allowed scouts to better weed out pretenders.

They're not clientele. They're prospects for employment, and an employer has the right to establish entry level criteria.

What is the proof that the NBA product was watered down? Doesn't the advent of the NBDL help to eliminate that? Doesn't getting more players quality coaching help the overall NBA product?

While the employer has that right, the NBA is the only sports league that doesn't allow prospects with the ability to contribute to be drafted after high school.

 

[Gabjon]

I'm sure they did have an internal will or strength. But to make the claim that some didn't use college as a tool, or possibly found a mentor there? I'm calling BS on that one. Look at the way Scoop Jardine or Dion Waiters talk about JB.

I'm not saying that what I am saying most people that succeed from that environment didn't go to college, in the case of athletes (which are less than a tenth of the people who fit this category) that internal will and strength was displayed before ever stepping a foot on campus or they would have never made it there!

 

[sufandu]

Now, your saying the whole family should pick up and move with the kid? Or have the mom leave the rest of their family? It is different for international student coming for college because many believe the United States offers the best level of education. Same for young European prospects playing in the NBA. Don't get me wrong, if a high schooler in the U.S. grows up wanting to play professionally in Europe, he has that right to go pro out of high school. Why doesn't he get that right for the NBA?

How did it go from "someone" to the whole family. It doesn't have to be mom. It could be an older brother or a trusted friend of the family. Not every student attending college in the U.S. does so because they come from an underdeveloped country with a lesser education system. Whether they do or not doesn't change the aspect of homesickness that you brought up, so it isn't different. He doesn't get that right for the NBA because it's not a right, it's a privilege. The NBA is the employer. Why is that so difficult to understand. The NBA is to the european leagues is equal to what Google is to syracuse.com. What qualifies you to work for one, doesn't qualify you to work for the other, and just like google gets to determine it's criteria, so does the NBA. They own the right, not the prospect.

Europe has had its own struggles with players not getting paid and things like that. Regardless of what you may think (if they aren't able to get living expenses paid for) it is a substantial investment by the family to send him to Europe for a season with the only reason being so he can wait his year for the NBA.

The lower level european leagues have trouble paying players, not the upper level leagues that someone of NN's stature would play for. Did anyone ever hear of Ricky Rubio not getting paid?

What is the proof that the NBA product was watered down? Doesn't the advent of the NBDL help to eliminate that? Doesn't getting more players quality coaching help the overall NBA product?

If you watched the NBA a few years ago, it was obvious. If it wasn't obvious, you don't know the sport. The NBDL doesn't eliminate it because the NBA doesn't invest in it enough to be a MLB level minor league system, and they don't have to if they don't want to. Right now, college coaches and the level of competition in college are superior to the NBDL, and, therefore, college is a better developing/weeding out ground. If you want to argue this, tell me how many NBDL coaches coached for the U.S. international teams the last 8 years.

While the employer has that right, the NBA is the only sports league that doesn't allow prospects with the ability to contribute to be drafted after high school.

Because it's not in their best interest to pay millions to these prospects to develop/weed them out, if they don't have to. It's no different than any large corporation.

 

[sufandu]

I'm not saying that what I am saying most people that succeed from that environment didn't go to college, in the case of athletes (which are less than a tenth of the people who fit this category) that internal will and strength was displayed before ever stepping a foot on campus or they would have never made it there!

If that's true (internal drive being the main component of success after having come from a difficult living situation), success in their sports arena would translate to success in all other parts of their lives more often. On the contrary, sports is the one thing many of these guys that have had troubled lives were great at. So they put all of their focus into it, and without outside influences from coaches, teachers, etc. they flounder in other areas. One of the environments that could provide such influences is college. Is it the only one? No. But for many, it's a place where they find it.